1eyedking Do JRPG's do anything well?

[Malraz Alizar]

ROMs

Great list! Zombies (aka "Zombies Ate My Neighbors" in America) is still the best co-op zombie killing experience I've ever had. And unlike stupid Left 4 Dead, the girl character gets a HIGHLY REALISTIC *puffs fine oak pipe* bonus to speed/penalty to strength that actually ends up making her the best one.

I know you didn't ask for recommendations, but if you like shooters, check out Thunder Spirits. It's pretty easy by modern standards but it's still hella fun. If you want something faster and more challenging, the (arguably even better) Mega Drive-only sequel Thunder Force IV should fit the bill.

Also, I notice you have Donkey Kong Country but not Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, which is a shame because that's when the series (and the Rare style of collect 'em up platformer) reaches its apex. (Scientific fact. Even the designer of Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix agrees!)

 

[SCO]

Besides skyway dip into codexian schadenfreude happened because he ranked his games, with percentages even.
I'm not capable of that much discrimination. Twenty years of consuming every kind of book and game left my critical abilities mush.

@Malraz Alizar
Thanks for the suggestions. I was never much of a platformer/shooter guy, even if i finished cave story in the hell mode when i saw a guide after finishing once.
My platformer nemesis comes from the amiga though. Lethal weapon (listen to the music), & to a lesser degree Ninja Warriors (from Taito - look at the way those lazy cyborg bastards saunter through the level).

Never finished both - no save states for my clumsy fingers you see. I suppose it is possible now with amiga emulation.

Edit: Just so you can see how ridiculously hard the game gets what this short segment of the longplay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wToj4X3 ... d#t=72m51s

 

[anus_pounder]

Way of the Samurai. I only have the 2nd one, like it, but holy shit. The game is short despite the various endings!

 

[Raghar]

BTW SCO both Kult, and Fate/Stay Night work under Linux. (x64 with Nvidia drivers)
Dark Mesiah nearly worked, but there was some problem with collision detection and rocks. (However, I didn't try it on Wine 1.3.)

 

[1eyedking]

Dual-wielding a stockless SPAS-12 and AR-18? I think I saw that in an anime once...

Holy crap they copy everything.

Japan cannot into creative process.

 

[Bruticis]

I think JRPGs are complete shit BUT I want to give them a chance so I can bash them with some intelligence. Are there some examples of MUST play JRPGs for the PSOne and PS2? I've got a modded PSOne and a PS2 with a flip top so I can evaluate and confirm my suspicions without breaking the bank.

Save your time if you go that way, and emulate a snes or ds in your computer.

You'll the best japan had to offer that way
My list of snes games played (many are still shit boring, i deleted dragon quest fortunately)

snip

Thanks for the list. I'll work my way down that list BUT I'm only going to do the RPG's for now. I just can't stand too many (any?) other genres on consoles.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Japan cannot into creative process.

Just wait, incoming wall of animu pictures supposed to prove you wrong, because obviously mixing shit together IZ TEH CREAITIV!!!

 

[Zeus]

I think JRPGs are complete shit BUT I want to give them a chance so I can bash them with some intelligence.

 

[SCO]

BTW SCO both Kult, and Fate/Stay Night work under Linux. (x64 with Nvidia drivers)
Dark Mesiah nearly worked, but there was some problem with collision detection and rocks. (However, I didn't try it on Wine 1.3.)

Well, not all games of that list work perfectly, or at all. I already moaned enough about morrowind MWSE required for certain mods, Discworld Noir wasn't working last time i tried. Infinity engine games have both graphic artifacts and PS:T specifically has a nasty gcc caused bug with SEE instructions alignment on 64bits (avoidable by having wine compiled with a gcc switch).
Moreover wine has some known mouse bugs whose "solution" is planed but requires a new version of the Xinput library to all distros. The bugs are related to relative mouse movements, that don't exist in X11, but do in the windows windowmanager. It affects Arx Fatalis in that list: only can move the mouse in a 90º ratius in front of you.

On the whole though, i'm happy at having ditched windows for my desktop. The update repositories are fantastic, once you've added a few non official ones, and i don't really care much about that many windows games anyway - for the rest, there are the emulators.

 

[SCO]

I think JRPGs are complete shit BUT I want to give them a chance so I can bash them with some intelligence. Are there some examples of MUST play JRPGs for the PSOne and PS2? I've got a modded PSOne and a PS2 with a flip top so I can evaluate and confirm my suspicions without breaking the bank.

Save your time if you go that way, and emulate a snes or ds in your computer.

You'll the best japan had to offer that way
My list of snes games played (many are still shit boring, i deleted dragon quest fortunately)

snip

Thanks for the list. I'll work my way down that list BUT I'm only going to do the RPG's for now. I just can't stand too many (any?) other genres on consoles.

It's a pity, because, personally, i think the best games there are not the rpgs.
Try clock tower yourself - it's one of the first terror games that worked.
Or ignition factor for a extremely original game - it's a firefighting game. You need to manage the fire and your & the victims position relative to it.
Umihara Kawase is one of the most astonishingly original (silly) concepts with perfect execution i ever encountered - it's a platformer physics game with a fishing pole.
And this is probably nebulous, but Der Langrisser is not a rpg for me, but a tactical game - you control commanders and their troops. If the commanders die, the troops die also (it's got the jrpg disease - no customization by levelups, but once in a while you can choose your next "class", and many of the narrative faults we discussed here). It's still a fantastically large narrative branching game.

 

[SCO]

As for the JRPGs:
Fushigi no Dungeon 2 - Fuurai no Shiren is a graphical roguelike
It misses most of of the point, by not having most emergent features expected on western roguelikes - i suspect primarily because of no keyboard to provide a broad interface - , but still.

Treasure of the Rudras has exactly one noteworthy feature:
It uses some rules OR a seed generator to make spells. You make a spell by writing choosing it's name. If the name has certain grams on the word they have a certain effect (like the UW runes) but if the word makes no sense it the system, it assigns random (but always the same) properties.
This in practice means you can make some very powerful spells "accidentally".

Darklaw - The Meaning of Death
Strange game. Nominally a combat rpg, but really a adventure smörgåsbord of moderately morbid little stories. There is a unifying story and multiple endings IIRC. Very slow. As i said, plays like a (very simple) adventure, except for the dungeons.

Hiouden ~ Legend of the Scarlet (demon) King
Is a very simple (old) realtime dungeon crawler. However as it's top down perspective i probably ruined any reputation i might have for calling a dungeon crawler - but that is what it is. It's also fun. Has a game+ mode where after you end the game you can play again with your demon slaves at high levels and the enemies too.

Romancing SaGa 3 is a extremely weird game in a weird series. It's got a really blasé approach to storytelling. That is, almost none, what there is uses almost no dialog and is fragmented through all characters that you will probably not use. It's also full of minigames. It's so strange i don't really regret playing it, though i can't say it was good.

Front Mission - its the progenitor of the series, before the story got too retarded. A straightforward mecha game. It could have good combat - but it's too easy and there is class of weapons that pwns everything else, so you'd be stupid to use anything else. It's one of the first times square used the "tragic" death scene. I think it works here because of a particularly macabre embellishment however.

Bahamut Lagoon - Pretty, game revolves around breeding dragons. Characters are typically japan. Enough said.

Seiken Densetsu 3 - Cliche ridden, but has a saving grace - the party you choose changes the storyline you encounter. I don't recall if there is a common part after doing the stories of each party member.

Star Ocean - Pretty famous. Lot's of skills, both combat, and otherwise (these serve to create items you'd not get otherwise mostly, and some unlock world events). Pioneered the use of "affection" events. Yes, these are exactly what you expect, but oh so innocent nowadays. Same skill system as valkyrie profile (same company)

Super Mario RPG - err, haven't played it. Seemed too stupid at the time.

Tales of Phantasia - Final fantasy clone with a different combat system (with beat em up like movement, only the main character directly controllable in combat - unless two players are using a controller each - but the ai is adequate). Large, and i guess technically impressive for a snes game. I finished it, but it's just another jrpg really. Epikkk.

Cyber Knight 1 & 2 - One of the few pure science fiction rpgs i ever saw. Nothing special, or noteworthy except that. Second game is better. Primitive.

There are a few others i haven't played (mystic arc) or are so famous, i guess you know what to expect (chrono trigger, FFVI).

 

[Klaz]

Strange Journey is fun. Has a boring long intro though.

 

[Lockkaliber]

1EK: Play Vagrant Story!

 

[SCO]

1EK: Play Vagrant Story!

However, be sure of your heterosexuality before you do.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Oh and Fushigi no Dungeon 2 - Fuurai no Shiren is a graphical roguelike
It misses most of of the point, by not having most emergent features expected on western roguelikes - i suspect primarily because of no keyboard to provide a broad interface - , but still.

About the DS version:

This game is packed with content, such as puzzles, tons of weapons and items, and cool spell scrolls. Each area is randomly generated, making for a fresh experience each play-through. It's also notoriously brutal. Unlike most RPGs, if you die, you lose EVERYTHING not in storage, including your stats and all you have on you. If you find this too hard, consider Izuna 2 above. If you like this, try the Wii sequel, Shiren the Wanderer. For a different Roguelike, try PMD below.

However, be sure of your heterosexuality before you do.

You stop noticing the assless chaps after a while.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Actually, the assless chaps are only noticeable in concept art. Ashleys model is too low-res to make out his buttocks through the assless chaps.

 

[Malraz Alizar]

Holy crap they copy everything.

Japan cannot into creative process.

Oh, come on! Everybody loves American movies!

My favourite anime character is Joe Pesci

 

[SCO]

Oh and Fushigi no Dungeon 2 - Fuurai no Shiren is a graphical roguelike
It misses most of of the point, by not having most emergent features expected on western roguelikes - i suspect primarily because of no keyboard to provide a broad interface - , but still.

About the DS version:

This game is packed with content, such as puzzles, tons of weapons and items, and cool spell scrolls. Each area is randomly generated, making for a fresh experience each play-through. It's also notoriously brutal. Unlike most RPGs, if you die, you lose EVERYTHING not in storage, including your stats and all you have on you. If you find this too hard, consider Izuna 2 above. If you like this, try the Wii sequel, Shiren the Wanderer. For a different Roguelike, try PMD below.

The snes version is also (mostly) random. But there is nothing as sophisticated as the nethack wish system for instance (to give a example that i have some experience of).

As for vagrant story, it's not only the main character. It's a perfect example of the strange nipponic homerotic aesthetics our good board members were elocuting about:

With the added injury that they are supposed to be a medieval order of knights.
Yeah. In Europe.

 

[PorkaMorka]

The problem, i believe, for a western audience is that outside certain genres, like horror games and particularly narrative games, you are not really expected to become immersed on the experience, at all. You are not expected to forget it is a game. So, your commanding officer reminds you to not forget to save your game before venturing to the next mission, and you discuss retro gaming with gnomes while trying to recruit them. Games are designed as games. You are, literally, suposed to game them and not to roleplay, nor to make believe, nor to get too deeply absorved into it all. In a way it's what we would call a casual attitude, even to their hardcore gaming.

In the end we are ashamed of our ridiculous monsters. They turn them into pop culture icons and memes. Bloody hell, they turn them into their bloody corporative logos and mascots. There is quite a cultural breach in there, and maybe some of us, who grew up around this stuff and playing those games, have an easier time accepting the joke, smiling at the weirdness, and then moving on with the gaming like nothing happened, while people who can't help but try to become immersed on the game's fiction get kicked out of it by the constant silliness. Or maybe there's a generational breach, not only a cultural one.

Also, they really like post-modern and self referencing narratives styles, which kind of kills any intention to build a mood other than a Twilight Zone one.

Good post, thanks.

It's a good clarification of the problem I tend to have with JRPGs/Japanese tactical RPGs, as immersion (not in the modern marketing sense, but like you'd get immersed in a book) is certainly a big thing I am looking for in RPGs and something that helps me sustain interest in certain games when the gameplay on its own might not be able to keep me playing.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

As for vagrant story, it's not only the main character. It's a perfect example of the strange nipponic homerotic aesthetics our good board members were elocuting about:

That bare chested guy to the left reminds me of someone

,only with more hair

 

[SCO]

The mercies of low resolution zoomed out isometric.

 

[FeelTheRads]

That bare chested guy to the left reminds me of someone

Yes, the bare chest is the only thing gay about that guy on the cover.

3/10

 

[SCO]

BTW most of the games i talked above are fan-translated. You can find the translations on the internet. Applying is normally as easy as having the same name as the rom in the same directory or zip (different extension obviously) - except for Der Langrisser that has another patch format. Roms must be unheadered...

Oh well i guess it pretty complex actually. You'll get it if you're interested. The tool to use is nsrt. Or find prepatched roms.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That bare chested guy to the left reminds me of someone

Yes, the bare chest is the only thing gay about that guy on the cover.

3/10

Well, he lacks the lipstick and the bondage-daddy looking vest

 

[SCO]

Well, the first time i played vagrant story i was pretty surprised they gave the obviously gay creative director complete freedom, but i rolled with it. What broke the suspension was the other, clothed people. Clothed like medieval nobility of Europe, that in turn lead me to use my brain (dangerous activity that in a game) and notice that yes, this wasn't supposed to be a generic kingdom setting 147, or if it was, it was clearly inspired on France or somewhere there in the middle.

So why were there were assless chaps and chemises de nuit coexisting in that setting?
Even worse, I seem to recall some religion somewhere. I don't recall exactly.