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CiV (Demo) is out

Luan

Educated
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
108
Location
Fukuoka, Japan
So CiV is the first civilization game I've played since Alpha Centauri in middle-school. I'm playing on Diety for my 2nd game for the lulz. (First one was on Prince and it was so roflstomp easy that I got bored and quit mid-way).

I have to agree that the UI lacks quality, detailed information, which is infuriating considering the game genre. What is the point of obfuscation? How does making things more inaccessible make things "streamlined"? It'd be a godsend to simply display all information at once rather than have them tucked away in different windows that can only be displayed one at a time. Worse yet, you are forced to click twice and there are no hot keys for direct access. Anyhow, I think unit maintenance is in iterations of 2. Something like 4-4-6-6-8-8-etc gold upkeep for 2 units, 4 units, 6 units, etc.. Delete two units and you should see your gold jump up, repeat for consecutive maintenance decrease. The problem here is that warriors cost as much maintenance as samurai, or nuclear submarines for that matter.

Also in my Diety game (Earth/Huge/Marathon, my 2nd game ever, and first game I plan to play to completion)... I think i'm winning lawl. I just allied with all the maritime city-states and have some retarded growth. I think my capital city itself is raking in 20 food baskets per turn(Retarded UI just shows a * if it's over 10 rather than an explicit number) The rest of my cities are also "*" food buckets.
Most of my empire consists of puppet states and i'm annexing them carefully so they won't build stupid shit like barracks and armories which i'll never use in those cities. My science and gold is rocking along considering the time imo. 157 science and 90 gold per turn with a happiness hovering in the teens at 500 BC. My happiness is primed for a golden age soon so I wouldn't be surprised to see my gold shoot up in the mid 200s.

Also a quick tech to an ancient navy at the start of the game let me explore all those delicious ruins. It's roughly 500 BC and i'm running around with a rifleman stack ._. I've found about 8 more ancient ruins around Australia and Japan so most likely i'll be able to get an infantry or even mech stack soon.

Anyhow, there is something terribly wrong if I will be able to beat Diety as a complete Civ noob. Though Songhia does have 20k+ stockpiled gold with 300 income per turn. I control the majority of Africa and it does have a single tile wide choke-point that leads to Europe/Asia which should be very easy to hold with a citadel. Also, i'll be the 2nd civ to reach the renaissance and I'll be able to upgrade my frigates. Aside from barbarians, i'm the only civ with a navy... Once my riflemen complete their adventure into the pacific, hopefully they'll come back as mechanized infantry and I can sack Songhia's capital and/or liberate all the city-states he's consumed. My happiness won't be able to support many more cities so I'll end up razing them. I don't want to do the "ignore happiness" strat as it just feels... wrong.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Just won a game on Immortal. Didn't even stop to think for a second, just spammed units, promoted healing and attacked stuff.

Actually I didn't win, but I'm at 1300 score while the other nations are at ~700 and I own half the world.






Uninstalling.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,520
Quite amusing when you find ruins in the industrial era. Somehow hidden among thousand year old ruins of civilizations long gone I found a fully functional tank division.
 
Self-Ejected

Wilco

Self-Ejected
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
384
Location
The land of multi-headed phallus
So general consensus seems to be either good for what it is at best or incomplete, dumbed down shit at worst.

Keep in mind that CIV 4 w/o the expansions and multiple patches was shit as well. So perhaps people are being too harsh too soon.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Wilco said:
So general consensus seems to be either good for what it is at best or incomplete, dumbed down shit at worst.

Keep in mind that CIV 4 w/o the expansions and multiple patches was shit as well. So perhaps people are being too harsh too soon.
Civ 4 wasn't bad when it first came out.

It was actually pretty good.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,281
Location
Poland
1eyedking said:
Wilco said:
So general consensus seems to be either good for what it is at best or incomplete, dumbed down shit at worst.

Keep in mind that CIV 4 w/o the expansions and multiple patches was shit as well. So perhaps people are being too harsh too soon.
Civ 4 wasn't bad when it first came out.

It was actually pretty good.

I disagree, Civ 4 was very bad vanilla and I dropped it almost immediately after playing. At least CiV is mildly entertaining even if has retarded AI (my biggest gripe right now, as a regular emperor player from 4 I am simply domnating my games unless deliberately shooting myself in the foot).
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
Civ 3 also sucked dick at first.

The problem is usually that they withhold tons of content for expansions and whatnot. In Civ5's case they just released it too early, so there're more exploits than usual and the new features are mostly broken.
 
Self-Ejected

ScottishMartialArts

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
11,707
Location
California
attackfighter said:
In Civ5's case they just released it too early, so there're more exploits than usual and the new features are mostly broken.

That's my sense as well. In two years when the expansions are out and the game has been patched out of beta, it'll be quite good. Until then though, it's pretty broken, but still fun.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
poocolator said:
The colourful, cartoony graphics of CIV IV put me off at first, but I grew used to them and enjoyed the game nevertheless.
Me too, but even then one could see that civ 4 introduced a lot of new gameplay mechanics that made the game better and more complex.

Most importantly was city upkeep, followed by health, trade routes, religion and a relatively good diplomacy system.

Civ 5 on the other hand has removed a lot of stuff and made the game simpler.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
attackfighter said:
Civ 3 also sucked dick at first.

The problem is usually that they withhold tons of content for expansions and whatnot. In Civ5's case they just released it too early, so there're more exploits than usual and the new features are mostly broken.
It's not like they added a whole lot with the expansions. Vanilla is still very entertaining.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Also learning my way around Civilization III and IV took much longer. There were some key concepts that you needed to understand before finding yourself comfortable in Regent/Noble.

In Civilization V I actually won my first tryout game :/
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
Might as well ask it here. Is the console version of Civ worth it? I found it in a store, cheap. I have a half-mind to buy it, but I was totally saving my cash for a first day purchase of assassin's creed brotherhood....
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
1eyedking said:
attackfighter said:
Civ 3 also sucked dick at first.

The problem is usually that they withhold tons of content for expansions and whatnot. In Civ5's case they just released it too early, so there're more exploits than usual and the new features are mostly broken.
It's not like they added a whole lot with the expansions. Vanilla is still very entertaining.

The expansions for civ 3 added multiplayer, 15 civilizations, 2 civ traits, a bunch of units, techs, buildings, wonders, resources, tile improvements and they also improved gameplay mechanics. Vanilla civ 3 was very bland and everyone hated it.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,182
Has anyone of you beaten the game above emperor difficulty with a peaceful victory, cultural or diplomatic ?
It seems to me the only way to win CIV 5 is to overcome the absurd advantages the "difficult" IA get by just rushing its cities early and stomping them with bushido+samurai and health regen promotions.
At deity or at prince setting the IA is the very same and do the very same mistakes, they still seems unable to plan an oversea invasion, and easily thwarted on land by placing a fortress dealing 3 damage to adjacent tiles and a ranged unit behind it.Even i f you have no chokepoint you just the fortress next to the city closest of the enemy civilisation and they will come to it, they will never get around.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,520
Depends on how peaceful you are being. I've won cultural victories by conquering a lot of land and not annexing any city, which keeps my policy cost low since it only goes up when annexing. I'm not even planning anything, just automating everything and going by whatever the recommended tech is. I imagine that if I actually micromanaged cities and wasn't automating workers I would beat at least emperor.

I dunno about purely peaceful victories without any conquering at all, but I assume you aren't trying that because if you were you wouldn't be using Japan.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
attackfighter said:
The expansions for civ 3 added multiplayer, 15 civilizations, 2 civ traits, a bunch of units, techs, buildings, wonders, resources, tile improvements and they also improved gameplay mechanics. Vanilla civ 3 was very bland and everyone hated it.
As I said, Civ is mostly a single player experience. Multiplayer is extra. The original civs and traits were enough to have fun. The unique units alone were more than enough for them to be worlds of difference. Iroquis Mounted Warriors, anyone?

The units, techs, buildings and wonders added were nothing core-game changing. They added welcome fluff, but you only noticed if you got tired of the original.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
1eyedking said:
attackfighter said:
The expansions for civ 3 added multiplayer, 15 civilizations, 2 civ traits, a bunch of units, techs, buildings, wonders, resources, tile improvements and they also improved gameplay mechanics. Vanilla civ 3 was very bland and everyone hated it.
As I said, Civ is mostly a single player experience. Multiplayer is extra. The original civs and traits were enough to have fun. The unique units alone were more than enough for them to be worlds of difference. Iroquis Mounted Warriors, anyone?

The units, techs, buildings and wonders added were nothing core-game changing. They added welcome fluff, but you only noticed if you got tired of the original.

You said the expansions didn't add much, not that they didn't change the 'core game' (whatever you think that means).
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3,591
Location
Argentina
Not changing the core is not much. Even then you can add stuff that radically alters gameplay. Compare to, say, Broodwar for StarCraft. Completely different game.

And I wouldn't call Civ 3 on release bad, just different. It was definitely a step away from Civilization II into another direction.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
I would call Civ 3 on release bad. It was the only civ I disliked. Hadn't heard the expansions supposedly improved it though, bought the complete pack for $1 on Steam a while back so maybe I should check it out again.
 

mahdi

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
494
Location
USA, suck it Polska!
I don't think this has been posted yet so I will link to it in case anyone is on the fence with this game. So this guy, Sulla, some bigshot Civ player that helped develop Civ4 with Firaxis (I hope he was paid) did a playthough/review of the new game. He pretty much hates it although he sees the potential for a good game. Anyway, it's worth a read even if you have the game already as it highlights a lot of the problems currently present.
link: http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/americanempire.html
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,410
Location
Copenhagen
ME14.jpg
or
y21.png
- which is better and why?!?
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,665
mahdi said:
He pretty much hates it although he sees the potential for a good game. Anyway, it's worth a read even if you have the game already as it highlights a lot of the problems currently present.
link: http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/americanempire.html

His first mistake was saying he basically won after he expanded in first few turn. The trouble would come later.

Currently have about 7 units, DD, BB, SS, artillery, two workers... and maintenance costs are bad. The trouble is how to afford a carrier, or two with full load of units, and don't go into negative.

It looks like there are two games with different design. One uses exponential model, and thinks the economy part also uses exponential model. The other is fine tunned to flat model, and believes there is no rising costs of units.

In theory, even with exp rise of maintenance costs it would be doable, however the maintenance costs don't fully depend on number of units, which basically kill the fine tuning of the other system, and cripple everyone at the end game.
 

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