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the biggest problem i have with the fallout setting

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Ruprekt said:
Azrael, isn't the kind of the premise for Warhammer 40k?

[secret fact: Azrael has never played, and has no knowledge of, Warhammer 40k]


NO! Of course not! It's totally different, what with....monocoles...and....muskets...and...stuff...
 

Miew

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Rather than glass or furniture, I think something that stands out as odd is the absence of any kind of wagon or vehicle.
One of the most basic inventions that mankind made was the wheel, yet in Fallout every trader just has his wares stuffed onto the back of a Brahmin instead of getting some kind of basic vehicle. I mean there should be more than enough broken cars lying around that even if you can't fix them properly, you could use them as a makeshift wagon to be pulled by Brahmin. They could even sit down on these too, instead of walking from place to place through the burning sun.
That, of course, would make restoring roads or living near them a lot more feasible. Why would a trader visit a town where he has to cross miles of impracticable terrain to get to? Or in other words, why would people settle in a place where they have to travel accross that kind of terrain to get anywhere?

If you look at how population developed in the first place, people would gather and start settlements around natural sources of water or food. 200 years after the war there should be at least some places where that's possible, so that's where people would go to. No point in hanging around some desert that'd be harsh to live in even before the war.
If one of the major concerns was getting food, maybe it'd be a good idea to go near the coast where fishing might be an option. Also, sea water could be refined and made usable for drinking or maybe even watering crops.
So I guess realisticly, you'd find most people around some kind of lake or spring, where they have access to non-radiated ground water, and along the coastlines.

Another thing to consider might be railroads. In NV I found myself crossing a railroad and instinctively looking left and right to see if there was a train approaching. Of course there wasn't, but really, why not? Before there were cars, there were trains, because they're easier to produce and maintain I guess. They probably take less fuel to get from point A to B as well, because the tracks are made to fit their wheels specifically, so there should be less friction than with a car and its tires.
Railroad tracks shouldn't be affected too much by the war, so why has no one ever gotten the idea of integrating tracks into trade routes?

Once all the basic needs are covered, people are going to look to other things like fixing windows and furniture, but somehow people in the Fallout universe seemingly managed to just barely scrape by for 200 years.

Buuut then again, I guess the scenario is just more interesting the way it is, instead of being too realistic and everything falling back into place too soon.
 

Havoc

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Miew said:
Rather than glass or furniture, I think something that stands out as odd is the absence of any kind of wagon or vehicle.
One of the most basic inventions that mankind made was the wheel, yet in Fallout every trader just has his wares stuffed onto the back of a Brahmin instead of getting some kind of basic vehicle. I mean there should be more than enough broken cars lying around that even if you can't fix them properly, you could use them as a makeshift wagon to be pulled by Brahmin.

Aaaand I stopped reading here... play F1 and F2.
 

Miew

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Havoc said:
Aaaand I stopped reading here... play F1 and F2.

I played the first two games long ago.
What are you implying? Maybe the caravans from the Den in Fallout 1? Come to think of it, I seem to remember some wagons or trailers that were pulled by Brahmin. I'm not entirely sure about it, but you might have a point.

About the car in Fallout 2: It's only a single car, which the player gets to cruise around. It's not like people are fixing up old cars regularly, so I still think what I said in that regard is valid.

In New Vegas there were a couple of motorcycles parked before the tavern in Goodsprings as well, but no one seemed to take notice or refer to any kind of vehicle ever, so I suppose they were still just standing there from before the war. =D
 

Norfleet

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Mister Arkham said:
This is people with guns robbing people without, pushers controlling junkies, pimps abusing women, the haves enslaving the have-nots.
So, how is this distinct from Somalia? And yet, the place manages to look shabbier than Somalia does. I wonder what Fallout: Mogadishu looks like.
 

Relay

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I don't think anyone has tried to make the setting better since the original Fallout came out. It's not like Fallout 2 was any good in that department, they didn't need Bethesda to make some really, really stupid shit like.. tribals. Tribals ! with no less than bones stuck in their noses.

1OTxq.jpg


FO1 was the closest we got to a nice postapo setting, though it isn't without faults. It didn't make the game worse to play but I really wish someday to see a postapo game without ghouls and supermutants. Something closer to the survivalist vibe and less SciFi.
 
In My Safe Space
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Miew said:
Rather than glass or furniture, I think something that stands out as odd is the absence of any kind of wagon or vehicle.
One of the most basic inventions that mankind made was the wheel, yet in Fallout every trader just has his wares stuffed onto the back of a Brahmin instead of getting some kind of basic vehicle. I mean there should be more than enough broken cars lying around that even if you can't fix them properly, you could use them as a makeshift wagon to be pulled by Brahmin. They could even sit down on these too, instead of walking from place to place through the burning sun.
People use vehicles pulled by Brahmin for transporting goods in Fallout. Hell, supermutants even have steam trucks.
 

Malakal

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I seriously doubt that in FO setting restoring cars is a good idea. You see this whole 'world war' thing started because oil sources were depleted and oil could only be found undersea (so oil platforms). This is too high tech for postapoc. Other cars would be powered by fusion cells, and those are even more unavaiable in postapoc than oil drilling. I am not sure if western coast has any serious coal reserves (fuel could be made from coal but thats more for east coast).

The lack of trains can be explained in the same ways. You either need energy or coal/fuel to move them, and that leaves us with nuclear (GECKO), solar (Helios One) or dams (Hoover Dam). NCR does use monorail and I find that strange (after 200 years infrastructure would decay to the point that it would need to be compeltely rebuilt from the scratch). Actually I find it amusing that the Dam still stands without maintaince after so long...

So yes, Brahmins make sense for transportation (if water and food is more avaiable) as I dont see serious biofuel industry developing in such conditions.

Placing towns near water sources is of course sensible, unless You consider that prime locations were already occupied and supposedly obliterated during the war. Now people would leave where not only food and water is present but also radiation/pollution is not.

About the state of civilization after the 200 years: years of anarchy could do what the war did not. Its easy to imagine that nuked America collapsed into something of a war torn Afghanistan equivalent but with raiders instead of tribals. People not fixing their homes is harder to explain: perhaps they are moving constantly scavenging stuff?
 

Miew

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Malakal said:
I seriously doubt that in FO setting restoring cars is a good idea. You see this whole 'world war' thing started because oil sources were depleted and oil could only be found undersea (so oil platforms). This is too high tech for postapoc. Other cars would be powered by fusion cells, and those are even more unavaiable in postapoc than oil drilling. I am not sure if western coast has any serious coal reserves (fuel could be made from coal but thats more for east coast).


I always thought that fusion cells, which cars seemed to run on, were relatively abundant in the world. At least to the point where I thought there must have been some way to recharge them.
All in all, electricity doesn't seem to be that much of an issue.
They're making a big deal out of Hoover dam, but New Reno must have had some kind of energy supply, and there are numerous other places with computers and other sorts of electronic devices as well.
There's also a lot of fridges... I suppose these wouldn't make much sense if they weren't powered, so doesn't that mean there's some sort of energy available?
There doesn't seem to be a power grid either, but places like the BoS still get a lot of energy from somewhere. And what about the Vaults? Do they have nuclear reactors, or is nothing even mentioned about how they're powered?

Oh and btw, I'm pretty sure most traders you encounter while traveling still don't use Brahmin for pulling trailers. In fact iirc they're just standing there making it seem like they're carrying their wares around in their pockets.
 

UserNamer

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I am pretty sure you don't see car around for an engine limitation. You see motorcycles in front of the saloon in goodsprings, and there is an old lady (gibson?) who seem to be working on a motorcycle in her scrap yard.

And the ncr was rebuilding the train track.
 

Pika-Cthulhu

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While I see mining for coal a slim possibility, Bio fuels as well, there is plenty of wooden items in the wasteland, and in Fallout and Fo2 there were trees of some kind if my aging memory serves me well (and it rarely does) so in theory, with reforestation efforts (YAY OUTDOORSMAN SKILL USEFULL? No? Dang) you could have fuel for a potentially jury rigged a steam engine train, if the tracks are in order (making new sleepers and having people to place them will be a PITA, but the old sleepers can make for fuel!) and that train can move around a bit.

Mind you, transportation is kind of low on priority list in a Post Apoc world where people will kill you for the food in your pocket and the clothes off your back, and then theres slavers....

I think, the first basic needs require some amending, Food, Water, Defensive weapons, everything else comes alot easier if those defensive weapons double as offensive weapons.

As for fixing things up nice, sure, if theres enough hours in the day what with surviving, scavenging, hunting, defending your property, liberty and life, to beautify a shithole, might as well make it a nice shithole.

Edit: Clarify some points. The rest, well, its a mess.
 

Raghar

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ghost-town2-248x300.jpg

michaelgrist-584-02012010.jpg-30.jpg


This is current real world Japan.

Considering Japan is a fairly wealthy country, I wonder why should people in F3 have more resources than a country with a government.
 

Malakal

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Cars need infrastructure and a good one too. Roads, Gas stations, repair shops. They are not that advanced when tech is concerned but without working government it would be hard to effectively move anywhere with them.

Electricity... well it should be an issue. Neons are probably using only low ammounts of it (correct gas and all that), so do computers (most are dead anyway). Robots are another thing entirely. But how many STREET LIGHTS do we get? There are no appliances showcasing abundance of electricity, especially not in smaller towns. Fridges could run on chemical reactions. Of course its probably overabundant just for the needs of the game. But LORE states that all pwoer plants are a big thing. Building more with current government is nearly impossible. Fueling one? Even less so.

Using wood is a stupid idea, forests take years to grow, need good soil (mile wide radioactive tornadoes anyone?) and a lot of water, clear water. They are also quite vulnerable to pollution. After 200 years radiationw ouldnt be much of a problem, but pollution from chemicals (both industrial and military) and bio weapons? Still a present threat.
 

Relay

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Malakal said:
Cars need infrastructure and a good one too. Roads, Gas stations, repair shops. They are not that advanced when tech is concerned but without working government it would be hard to effectively move anywhere with them.

Electricity... well it should be an issue. Neons are probably using only low ammounts of it (correct gas and all that), so do computers (most are dead anyway). Robots are another thing entirely. But how many STREET LIGHTS do we get? There are no appliances showcasing abundance of electricity, especially not in smaller towns. Fridges could run on chemical reactions. Of course its probably overabundant just for the needs of the game. But LORE states that all pwoer plants are a big thing. Building more with current government is nearly impossible. Fueling one? Even less so.

Using wood is a stupid idea, forests take years to grow, need good soil (mile wide radioactive tornadoes anyone?) and a lot of water, clear water. They are also quite vulnerable to pollution. After 200 years radiationw ouldnt be much of a problem, but pollution from chemicals (both industrial and military) and bio weapons? Still a present threat.

Dude who cares if it's realistic or not, that's absolutely not the point in a world with Mister Gutsies still working after hundred of years and plasma pistols and Archimedes II orbital strikes.

Besides, if a random mechanic nerd can do this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he7NSXQa ... re=related
There is no reason why a lightweight, four wheeled vehicle can't exist in Fallout.

Steampunk makes more sense than Fallout postapo.
There is no arguing about whether there could be cars in Fallout when it has stupid stuff like ghouls, supermutant, extremely powerful autonomous robots (even though most computers are stuck to room sized, command-line interface based supercomputa. Where did they get the miniaturized parts in a world that has never seen a functioning laptop ?) and so on.
 

DalekFlay

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Relay said:
Dude who cares if it's realistic or not, that's absolutely not the point in a world with Mister Gutsies still working after hundred of years and plasma pistols and Archimedes II orbital strikes.

Exactly, I don't get the debate. If Fallout: New Vegas was trying to be a realistic post-apocalypse game then sure, nit-pick, but the game is pure fantasy. It is not trying to be realistic, it is trying to be the opposite.
 

Nael

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zelda64whatagreatgame said:
it's the lack of imagination that's the problem for me rather than the lack of realism.

Exactly my issue with the Fallout universe as well. Hell, reality isn't very realistic half the time either if you ask me. Particularly when I'm drunk. But all the 50s kitsch is personally what turned me off the most about the Fallout games. It just wasn't my cup of tea.
 

Drakron

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Raghar said:
This is current real world Japan.

That is Battleship Island, it deserted since the mid 1970's.

Also Malakal the NCR have train as the Powder Gangers used to work on repairing the rails before the breakout, there are few locomotives around but they seem Pre-war and likely be old diesel engines, of course the NCR must have a way to make their trains run so they are either fission and/or steam.
 
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Mister Arkham said:
You've lost me. A picture of some poorly placed rock objects in a game full of poorly placed rock objects? I'm sorry, but if you're trying to prove something you're going to have to do more than point and grunt.

Look up. He's showing the electric lines.

Black said:
I sure would love to play a post-apo game without the whole post-apo thingie.

I don't think Mad Max Style post-apoc is the only way to do post apoc, but Fallout's thing is Mad Max post-apoc, so nyah I guess

Topdrunkee thy ILLnifique said:
DalekFlay said:
Everything I enjoy must be completely realistic.
Comically enough that's the exact vibe that I get from the codex. The lotta of y'all complain about the most irrelevant shit. I thought it was a joke at first until I realized that most of y'all actually are that damn retarded.

I'm not trollin & what not. I'm just speaking as a man who mostly lurks. This is exactly how the codex comes off from my pov as an outsider.

THE DOG

PEOPLE DONT REACT

WHEN I

SHOOT

IT
 

CrimHead

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The fallout timeline is just fluff.

All you need to know is that the world is fucked up and you get to do alot of cool shit in it.
 

Quilty

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Relay said:

The whole tribals thing was annoying to me, but that photo you posted just reminded me how well animated the talking heads were. Most of them were of surprisingly high quality. Not that they were complex, but somehow they evoked a lot of atmosphere. I rarely skipped them, loved watching those animations.
 

CrimHead

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The only game in the entire franchise that had any consistency in the setting was the first one, anyway. Fallout 2, 3, and New Vegas all fall victim to incorporating a hodge podge of "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME/WITTY/DARK" material that, although amusing, doesn't quite fit thematically. Fallout 1 can be taken seriously, while the rest of the franchise is more or less a bunch of "check out this cool shit." Still, Fallout 2 is my favorite in the series. More to do; more replayability :M

Fallout 1 is probably objectively the best in the series as far as atmosphere, but its not as fun as 2, imo.
 

Raghar

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Drakron said:
Raghar said:
This is current real world Japan.

That is Battleship Island, it deserted since the mid 1970's.

Only the first image is the island you mentioned, the second image is a radiology facility (it's somehow fitting for a discussion about FO3).

There are two more images.
michaelgrist-584-02012010.jpg-31.jpg


michaelgrist-584-02012010.jpg-33.jpg
 
In My Safe Space
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It looks like someone wanted to beautify it.
 

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