Review Vince D. Weller Does Fallout: New Vegas

[Jaesun]

If a group of modders actually modded New Vegas into the Fallout 2 engine, it actually would be a worthy and much more satisfying "Fallout Experience".

Granted the Art assets to pull this off (and a Zenimax Cease and Desist) order keep this from being the next best Fallout experience since Fallout 2.

If such a mod existed, I would never play New Vegas it in it's current FO3 engine.

On topic, excellent review VD.

 

[Silellak]

how is gameplay now a mere detail to be discarded away

It's not. Quest design is a substantial part of the gameplay in a good RPG.

(Most) people don't love FO1 and 2 for the combat.

 

[1eyedking]

Will read later.

 

[MicoSelva]

Good, and long-awaited review. Very informative. It looks like most of the stuff that bothered me in FO3 has been addressed and corrected - exactly as I hoped. Although, it seems that some kind of combat difficulty increasing mod would be a good idea before starting the game.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Excellent read, VD. Now I'm late for work, you fucker.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

When has poverty stopped anyone from gambling, drinking and whoring? What about the NCR troopers who are paid to fight for the Hoover Dam and are given leave with absence to carouse and go hooring?

NCR troopers weren't always there. What did New Vegas do all the century or more before they appeared?

The latter felt like a fragment of a different game. I know it's canon and all, because MCA said so, but I have my doubts.

Even if we accept that the Shady Sands -> NCR transformation makes sense, how do you explain that the majority of people still live in pre-war ruins and haven't even moved to "let's start building proper towns" phase

Shady Sands -> NCR transformation doesn't really make sense. It's explained with GECK. But where was GECK in Fallout is? Why wasn't it used back then? And where would it come from?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Seen for a very remote point of view (I didn't play Fallout 3 or NV) this "FNV effect" is very very strange.

I remember long and heated discusions, on NMA or here, about Fallout 2. How the gameplay was good but locations like New Reno and Frisco made no sense. Almost everyone agreed on the good or at least average quest design and the roleplaying validity of both but damn... Casinos and mob families ? Kung fu fighting ? Functioning nuclear submarine ? Scientologists ? No way GTFO my Fallout...

Years pass and now the (apparently) same people agree on NV's (or rather Fallout 3's engine) flawed gameplay, good or at least average quest design and how damn... Roman soldiers ? Space suits ? A gang of Elvis lookalikes ? Functioning Hoover Dam ? Totally belong in Fallout....

Perfect symmetry. It's rather scary in an "Invasion of the body snatchers" way.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Good review. Thanks, VD.

A thing that we have to ask ourselves is: if Fallout 3 never happened, would NV be considered that good?

I think it would still be considered a good game, but there would certainly be more issues with whether it is a Fallout game at all.

 

[made]

Surprisingly accurate for a VD review, when I consider his past efforts like G3 and DA that didn't mirror my experiences at all. Even if the review apparently assumes I'm familiar with F3 and found it bearable enough to appreciate all the improvements OE made, so shit that pissed me off to no end is only briefly touched upon with "it's still a Bethesda game at its core, duh."

 

[Ausir]

NCR troopers weren't always there. What did New Vegas do all the century or more before they appeared?

Vegas was mentioned in Fallout 1 as being run by gangsters.

A gang of Elvis lookalikes ?

The Kings sounded silly at first when I read about them, but they ended up being pretty well written, and an interesting faction.

 

[kris]

Prewar buildings are there. Whats the point in wasting materials building a new building if you can just refurbish the pre-war ones? It doesn't indicate anything about the state of society other than they aren't happily wasting their resources.

The point would be that they are not refurbished. They just moved in. It DOES indicate that they don't have any resources or building materials. Few want to live in a shithole.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The Kings sounded silly at first when I read about them, but they ended up being pretty well written, and an interesting faction.

You see, that's why I won't play that game, anymore than I will watch shows like "Lost". I'm too scared of the way it changes formerly perfectly rational people...

 

[ironyuri]

Prewar buildings are there. Whats the point in wasting materials building a new building if you can just refurbish the pre-war ones? It doesn't indicate anything about the state of society other than they aren't happily wasting their resources.

Oops. Fat Freddy. FFUUUUUU.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I haven't played New Vegas, but based on what I saw in FO2 I wouldn't say NCR is all that unlikely really - first of all because it is not all that enlightened and liberal. They are not averse to using dirty tricks, and I remember Tandi in FO2 speaking about how she would have to "bully congress into supporting [x] again". All of this seemed to suggest to me that it had more in common with an authoritarian semi-democratic republic dependent upon one "strong man", African style. After all elections alone does not a democracy make, and there are many ways of fudging them.

Also Shady Sands were a fairly silent, egalitarian place seemingly run by one elder who ruled mostly based on consent and tradition rather than force. This sounds like excellent conditions for democracy to me, particularly when it was such a cornerstone of the pre-war world.

 

[Kz3r0]

Also Shady Sands were a fairly silent, egalitarian place seemingly run by one elder who ruled mostly based on consent and tradition rather than force. This sounds like excellent conditions for democracy to me, particularly when it was such a cornerstone of the pre-war world.

Modern Democracy was born out of subversion and rebellion against traditionally established institution and social values.
And especially in America egalitarianism has always been seen with suspicion.
Heck, the American system has always been run by lobbyists, and many famous presidents were backed by cattle barons, landlords, slaveholders, financiers and industrialists.

By the way I didn't know that lore-consistency was one of the fundamental parts of Fallout.

 

[Serious_Business]

I don't think Fallout setting consistency mean much either, but - I'd modify VD's criticism in a way that the problem is not that they have democracy, it's that they have a very strong, centered government, that formed very quickly. It would make more sense to have city states and such. But if a government formed out of those - I don't see why it couldn't be a democracy. In fact it would make more sense than those "less evolved forms of government" (not sure what that means), especially a monarchy - say that the NCR formed the republic by promising new members that they'd have a share in the power (thus, a democracy) or threatening them with violence as an alternative. Now of course the elected members will be the rich and such, so it's not like it's very far from an aristocracy in the first place (same comment can be said about today obviously). The parallel with the Roman republic is obvious as well (and most modern democracies, as far as I know, took the romans as models, not the greeks).

 

[Kz3r0]

I don't think Fallout setting consistency mean much either, but - I'd modify VD's criticism in a way that the problem is not that they have democracy, it's that they have a very strong, centered government, that formed very quickly. It would make more sense to have city states and such. But if a government formed out of those - I don't see why it couldn't be a democracy. In fact it would make more sense than those "less evolved forms of government" (not sure what that means), especially a monarchy - say that the NCR formed the republic by promising new members that they'd have a share in the power (thus, a democracy) or threatening them with violence as an alternative. Now of course the elected members will be the rich and such, so it's not like it's very far from an aristocracy in the first place (same comment can be said about today obviously). The parallel with the Roman republic is obvious as well (and most modern democracies, as far as I know, took the romans as models, not the greeks).

Actually some kind of power sharing among various groups or leaders would make more sense.

 

[Lumpy]

Roman soldiers ? Space suits ?

I never quite got this - why exactly do space suits not fit in Fallout?

As for the Legion - what is nonsensical about it? That a charismatic leader could unite some tribes? That he would adopt elements from an old culture to give his people a feeling of unity and superiority? Makes a lot of sense to me.

And it certainly makes a lot more sense than "Fuck, let's put bones through our noses and speak retarded".

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I could answer by "why exactly don't tribals fit in fallout ?", retarded speech and boned noses are way closer to american society than roman soldiers. And the merry go round would go for yet another turn...
Is it really so hard for you to imagine that some people can find tribals and romans just as silly ? I mean, really ?

 

[Irxy]

For the record, I played it on my 5+ year old computer:
nVidia GeForce GTS 250. 1GB

GeForce GTS 250 release date: March 3, 2009
Lier.

 

[janjetina]

This was a very good review and I can't find any significant points to contend, except for the minor nitpick that the only treatment the worst part of the game, i.e. the consolized user interface including the quest compass got was condensed in a few sentences at the beginning.

 

[Lumpy]

I could answer by "why exactly don't tribals fit in fallout ?", retarded speech and boned noses are way closer to american society than roman soldiers. And the merry go round would go for yet another turn...
Is it really so hard for you to imagine that some people can find tribals and romans just as silly ? I mean, really ?

No, I can imagine that some people find romans as silly as tribals - I also imagine that those people didn't really put all that much thought into it.
The Legion adopted Roman culture as a symbol for conquest, unity and strength - a concept not unknown throughout history. It was a conscious effort by a person who held significant power, and was able to impose his will upon the others.

By contrast, the voodoo culture seen in Fallout 2 appeared mysteriously and without any logical reason - there wasn't any advantage in in, there was nobody to impose it, yet appear it did. And not among some weird fuckoffs, but rather, among the vault dwellers who had been thoroughly exposed to advanced technology. It made no sense whatsoever.

And you still haven't explained what's so vile about that space suit.[/url]

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I also imagine that those people didn't really put all that much thought into it.

Crap, that hurts. Please make it stop.

And you still haven't explained what's so vile about that space suit.

And I won't. It would be a serious case of tl;dr.
The different elements form F2 I cited, as those from NV, are all things that I think seriously out of place in the Fallout setting. I'm not trying to justify what, in the end, will boil down to the proverbial "matter of opinion", I just expressed my genuine puzzlement at people thinking the F2 elements silly yet accepting the NV ones.

 

[Jora]

For the record, I played it on my 5+ year old computer:
nVidia GeForce GTS 250. 1GB

GeForce GTS 250 release date: March 3, 2009
Lier.

The computer itself is old, but of course he needs to update his video card every now and then to keep playing games with it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

For the record, I played it on my 5+ year old computer:
nVidia GeForce GTS 250. 1GB

GeForce GTS 250 release date: March 3, 2009
Lier.

I bought a new card when Risen was released.