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Review SciFi reviews Metalheart and comments on Fallout

Vault Dweller

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Tags: Akella; Metalheart: Replicants Rampage

<a href=http://www.scifi.com>SciFi</a> has posted a semi-retarded <a href=http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/games.html>review</a> of <a href=http://www.metalheart.ru/>Metalheart</a>, comparing it to Fallout.
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<blockquote>Tim Cain's Fallout is (even by the standards of its time) one of history's more overrated games, but it arrived during a period in which developers were absolutely terrified of doing an RPG, and it was instantly hailed by atrophied RPGers as the Second Coming. Metal Heart could almost be a sequel to the original franchise, so similar are its interface and play mechanics, but in 2005 that's as much a curse as a compliment.</blockquote>Unlike stupidity of the reviewer which is exclusively a curse.
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Thanks, <b>Shagnak</b>
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dipdipdip

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Yet the same guy gives Jade Empire high marks even though he actually concedes in the review that it's fairly inept as a role-playing game. Neato.
 

Sarvis

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dipdipdip said:
Yet the same guy gives Jade Empire high marks even though he actually concedes in the review that it's fairly inept as a role-playing game. Neato.

What's your point? Jade Empire is a fun game, a good game. It's only an inept RPG because it isn't really an RPG!

<b>Flink</b>

It's clunky.

Ex.
Having to go from shopping window to dialog instead of being able to just leave the shopping window.
Having to open up inventory to remove your weapon when entering a town, instead of having a sheathe weapons button.


There was other stuff too, but basically the interface annoyed me and killed whatever other fun might have been in the game.
 

NeVeRLiFt

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I personally would love to see more Fallout/Arcanum type CRPG and AOE II type RTS. I dont let interface or graphics keep me from enjoying a true great RPG experience.

Anyone that plays a game for the interface or graphics are just cunts imho.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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Metalheart is just a linear dungeon crawler with a very limited character system. I'm not really sure how that compares to Fallout.

Fallout was also one of the only non-linear, open ended CRPGs commercially produced.
 

Claw

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Saint_Proverbius said:
Metalheart is just a linear dungeon crawler with a very limited character system. I'm not really sure how that compares to Fallout.
It's isometric, has turnbased combat and you can aim at body parts. What more do you want?? :lol:
 

Sarvis

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NeVeRLiFt said:
I personally would love to see more Fallout/Arcanum type CRPG and AOE II type RTS. I dont let interface or graphics keep me from enjoying a true great RPG experience.

Anyone that plays a game for the interface or graphics are just cunts imho.

It's not a matter of playing "for the interface" it's a matter of having to fight the damn interface to play the game.
 

Vault Dweller

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@ Judas:

Peter Jackson's LotR? That's the acceptable form of reference, imo.
 

Naked_Lunch

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Sarvis said:
NeVeRLiFt said:
I personally would love to see more Fallout/Arcanum type CRPG and AOE II type RTS. I dont let interface or graphics keep me from enjoying a true great RPG experience.

Anyone that plays a game for the interface or graphics are just cunts imho.

It's not a matter of playing "for the interface" it's a matter of having to fight the damn interface to play the game.
If you had to "fight" Fallout's interface, then you should really just stick to playing Tetris.
 

Shevek

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FO's UI was pretty straightforward. The only real issue came in give stuff to and getting stuff from followers.
 

Sarkile

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The money thing in Fallout 1 was a minor annoyance. Had to move caps in increments of 999. Hardly something to cry about though.
 

TheGreatGodPan

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Sarvis said:
Having to go from shopping window to dialog instead of being able to just leave the shopping window.
Having to open up inventory to remove your weapon when entering a town, instead of having a sheathe weapons button.
I never really noticed the former and as for the latter, there's a red button that lets you switch between the two weapons you have selected in your inventory. I never went to the inventory screen to sheate, just pressed the red button.
 

Seven

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Ex.
Having to go from shopping window to dialog instead of being able to just leave the shopping window.
Having to open up inventory to remove your weapon when entering a town, instead of having a sheathe weapons button.

What are you aiming for the dumbfuck title again? Yeah, wow it took what all of 2 seconds to get out of the dialogue window after trading? And what if you still wanted to talk with the character, then you'd complain about the game not letting you go back to the dialogue window, right?

And yeah there was a sheath weapon buttom , so long as didn't go Rambo and carry a weapon in each slot.
 

dipdipdip

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Sarvis said:
What's your point?

I was just observing that the guy uses the Metalheart review to go on a rant on how "Tim Cain's Fallout" was overrated and outdated upon its release, and I believe that the same can be said for Jade Empire, yet he lets that one slide, because the man loves his pretty graphics and music.
 

Sarvis

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<b>Shevek</b>

I didn't say it wasn't straightforward, I said it was clunky. As in, more steps than necessary to do something even if those steps are simple and logical.

Even the inventory... getting to something in inventory involves scrolling down that annoying list, without mousewheel working if I remember correctly.



TheGreatGodPan:

That only works if you don't carry a weapon in each slot, which means your just using one gun in combat all the time since it costs AP to open up the backpack if you want to switch.

So I guess I either maintain an advantage in combat, or fight the clunky interface... I know which one I chose. The interface shouldn't force you into a certain playstyle.


Seven:

No, I wouldn't complain if I had to click on the guy to start talking again. That's what we call the USUAL way it's done, and it's done that way for a reason: it isn't annoying.

Not that BOTH options couldn't have been provided.
 

Spazmo

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The point, Sarvis, is that those are completely trivial issues, minor annoyances at best. Nothing bad enough to declare the entire interface to suck, especially since the dual cursor system was actually pretty neat.
 

Shagnak

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Well, I think that Fallout's interface was clunky as well in parts; there are definitely things that could be done better re: inventory management (I'm replaying the game right now in Windows XP - w00t - so it's pretty fresh in my mind). Some of Sarvis' points are quite valid.
However, there is no way that it is especially bad that it overshadows the rest of the game; and some aspects of the interface are pretty nicely handled e.g the dual cursor thing that Spazmo mentions. It's a mixed bag in a game that is otherwise excellent, but so what - plenty of games aren't perfect.

So saying the interface is a bit clumsy does not offend me, what annoys me is the reviewer's whole
"Fallout is (even by the standards of its time) one of history's more overrated games"

Now irrespective of some minor flaws in the game, whether you think they exist or not, that is pure dumbfuckery.
 

DarkUnderlord

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Sarvis said:
Even the inventory... getting to something in inventory involves scrolling down that annoying list, without mousewheel working if I remember correctly.
Did mice even have wheels back then? I always thought that was only something that happened on a large scale a few years after Fallout. Considering Fallout was also originally released for DOS.

Sarvis said:
That only works if you don't carry a weapon in each slot, which means your just using one gun in combat all the time since it costs AP to open up the backpack if you want to switch.
The AP cost of taking out another gun and putting it in the other hand at the start of a combat round is negligible. It's 4 APs, which is equivalent to one shot depending on the weapon you're using. While you're there, you can even use Stimpaks. In fact one of the great tricks of Fallout is opening up your inventory and using as many Stimpaks as you wanted, healing completely and getting back into the game. If it bothered your play style that much, you could even get the AP cost down to 2 with a perk, which make accessing the inventory costing AP a moot argument as 2 AP is quicker than most weapons could fire (bar the pistols, with suitable perks) and you often would have 2 AP or more left over at the end of your combat turn because you don't have enough for another shot.

Sarvis said:
So I guess I either maintain an advantage in combat, or fight the clunky interface... I know which one I chose. The interface shouldn't force you into a certain playstyle.
It doesn't, it simply mirrors the logic that if both your hands are full, you've got to put something away. To me that's what made it more of a point for NCR. You either had to keep one hand empty (which generally I did, given you had to watch the "put gun away" animation whenever you tried opening a door or using a skill if you did have a gun in your hand) or you had to go to the effort of opening up your inventory and putting one away.

As for scrolling the inventory list, it's not hard to whizz through compared to other "clunky" interfaces. I've always found Fallout pulled off the interface quite well, especially compared to other games which have come out since. You could order items in your inventory in the list the way you wanted by moving them around a bit and accessing items quickly generally wasn't an issue. You could even use the bags in the game and sort the inventory further into something almost like sub-directories of stuff (something I haven't seen in a game since).

Sarvis said:
No, I wouldn't complain if I had to click on the guy to start talking again. That's what we call the USUAL way it's done, and it's done that way for a reason: it isn't annoying.

Not that BOTH options couldn't have been provided.
This is just a lame argument by you and isn't an interface issue, it's more about your personal preference and the way you played. Fallout allows you to click the "barter" button and trade with any character in the game, at any point during dialogue. Exiting out of dialogue after trading and then clicking to talk to this person again would be more annoying, esepcially if you were mid-way through a conversation.

Most of what you've mentioned boils down to your choice of play style and Fallout already caters for it with a range of perks and other things you can choose as you build your character throughout the game. If Fallout was released today, I'm also certain it'd let you use the mouse-wheel too.

Tim Cain's Fallout is (even by the standards of its time) one of history's more overrated games
This guy is just an idiot. Even by the standards of today, Fallout does a lot better than most.
 

Naked_Lunch

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You could even use the bags in the game and sort the inventory further into something almost like sub-directories of stuff (something I haven't seen in a game since).
You can do that in a lot of games since Fallout. Off the top of my head: NWN, Revenant, Morrowind, Ultima IX and a whole lot more I know I'm missing.
 

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