Battle of DA protagonists: The Warden vs The Hawke

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

GERALT

The thing is, I think BioWare’s biggest mistake was calling it DAII. As people have pointed out, it would have been better referred to as “Dragon Age: Kirkwall” or something of that ilk. It’s not DA:O, and it’s not trying to be DA:O. It’s no longer a huge, open world with sprawling decisions. It’s a linear story, with the ability for the player to make choices within its narrative confines.

You see, it’s not BioWare making a sequel to DA:O, it’s BioWare making The Witcher.

It’s no longer a huge, open world with sprawling decisions.

What game would that be, because it certainly wasn't DA:O.

Mock, Fapper, Shitgun

 

[Andyman Messiah]

FORCED

I have four things to test out on you, Volourn. Tell me what you think.

1: I am forced to have a family I know nothing about and never will know anything about. I am expected to care about them and feel bad when one of them is forcibly killed on account of a cutscene.
In Origins, the origin stories give you friends and family and you are given more options than one to establish your relationship with them. After the origin story most of them are written out of the game. None of them ever scolds you for something that happened in a cutscene.

2: I am forced by my mother to go along with her retarded suggestion to go to Kirkwall, a town that according to the map in my possession is so far away from Lothering that it hurts my head. Why they would want to go there rather than Denerim or any of the other big cities in Ferelden is beyond me. The emigrant experience is forced upon us because BioWare wanted to show off more places of The Dragon Age Setting, not because it's the rational thing to do when your little shit village burns to ashes.

"Shit, Östersund is on fire and Storsjöodjuret walks the streets!"
"Let's go to London. It's just on the other side of the river, kind of."

3: When I get to Kirkwall I am forced to run errands for my loser uncle. When the tyranny of playing through a part of the design documents for Neverwinter Nights 2 is over with, I am thrown into a cutscene that says I did something but I am never told what. For all I know that creepy elf bitch could've had me jerking off goats for a year. Then I'm forced into a get rich fast scheme by a metrosexual dwarf who knows nothing about me except that I did something for a year (jerking off goats) and apparently was the only one to do a good job (I was desperate and needed the money). I can question him all I want, in the end I am forced to accept. I have three options that all lead to accepting the his offer. The choices are overwhelming.

Meanwhile in Origins, I am forced to save Ferelden since, well shit, I live there goddammit and also Loghain fucked me over with his retarded shit. Depending on your origin you can also have a third reason to do the main plot. Now, the real difference is that I am free to turn down all the fetch quests I come across, unlike in Dragon Age 2 where these fetch quests make out a good deal of the main plot and must be completed before I can advance to the next stage.

4: Another thing about DA2's story. It's a work of convenience. Forced as shit. Right at the beginning we're forced to believe that there are no wealthy investors in all of Kirkwall. We are forced to believe that you have to run up to some random peasant thug on the streets and tell him or her to make a lot of money so they can join in. Every single plot point falls right into Hawke's lap. You're walking around at night and stumbles upon a main quest that must be accepted. You're travelling between the city and the mountains and you stumble upon another main quest that must be accepted. Easy, convenient, lazy, linear. Unfit for a rpg.


The Warden has more say about the things offered in the game and most importantly, you're given a goal right from the start. Collect the four star maps. Recycled but at least it's something. There is no story in Dragon Age 2. It's just random convenient shit happening until you're the coolest badass in Kirkwall. That's a really crappy story.

"he isn't a slave to the Wardens"
Quite right. He's a slave to BioWare's inept storytelling.

 

[Volourn]

"Also, while your Hawke did 99% of what my Hawke did, I would say that my Warden only did 98% of what your Warden did"

Wow. You got me there. That 1% is HUGE.


"1: I am forced to have a family I know nothing about and never will know anything about. I am expected to care about them and feel bad when one of them is forcibly killed on account of a cutscene.
In Origins, the origin stories give you friends and family and you are given more options than one to establish your relationship with them. After the origin story most of them are written out of the game. None of them ever scolds you for something that happened in a cutscene."

*shrug* I will give the fact you aren't 'forced' to care in DAO 9though you could as I did with the betrayal). But, still, it works for DA2.

In DA1, youa re forced to be 'braiwnashed' by the Wardens as opposed to 'care about your family'. Not better or worse though DA2's more personal story not being so epic 9at start) is a plus.


"2: I am forced by my mother to go along with her retarded suggestion to go to Kirkwall, a town that according to the map in my possession is so far away from Lothering that it hurts my head. Why they would want to go there rather than Denerim or any of the other big cities in Ferelden is beyond me. The emigrant experience is forced upon us because BioWare wanted to show off more places of The Dragon Age Setting, not because it's the rational thing to do when your little shit village burns to ashes. "

Are you fukkin' an idiot? Your mother's reasoning is fully explained in the game. Your family has ties in Kirkwall. Her side of the family are 'former nobles' (and as far as she knows when the journey starts still are). THAT'S why she wants to go Kirkwall. As oppoed to Denerim where the authorities have turned their back on Lotehring residents (including yoU) and are being controlled by the turncoat Loghain.

FFS


"Now, the real difference is that I am free to turn down all the fetch quests I come across, unlike in Dragon Age 2 where these fetch quests make out a good deal of the main plot and must be completed before I can advance to the next stage. "

No true. Youc an turn every fetch quest in DA2. They mean shit, and are such a minor part of the game much like the job board quests in DA1. Same shit, different pile.


"I can question him all I want, in the end I am forced to accept. I have three options that all lead to accepting the his offer. The choices are overwhelming."

You are trying to be betetr your lfie, the DR quest is a good way to do that. yes, you are forced to do it story wise but it's definitely no worse than being forced to join the GW or 'save Feralden'.

"Meanwhile in Origins, I am forced to save Ferelden since, well shit, I live there goddammit"

Just move. FFS Not that the reasoning here isn't bad. But, just move.


"The Warden has more say about the things offered in the game and most importantly, you're given a goal right from the start. Collect the four star maps. Recycled but at least it's something. There is no story in Dragon Age 2. It's just random convenient shit happening until you're the coolest badass in Kirkwall. That's a really crappy story. "

Jokin' right/ Jokin' right? Hawke has just as much to say, and you are given a goal from the start - to improve your life, and that goal is extended and improved upon as you 'rise in the ranks'.

Meanwhile your goal in DA1 is stagnant and remains the same for the ENTIRE FUKKIN' GAME NO MATTER WHAT YOU FUCKKIN' DO. There is no growth, there is only 'kill the archdemon'.

LMFAO

 

[sser]

Well, in my DA:O my Warden set off to hunt down the swamp skank so I'd be more interested in playing him than seeing what banal things the ever exciting Kirkwall auto-transit engineer Hawke will get into next.

 

[chzr]

sheppard.



/thread

 

[Manticore]

Of course The warden wins...
Who wouldnt win vs a retarded errand boy.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

*shrug* I will give the fact you aren't 'forced' to care in DAO 9though you could as I did with the betrayal). But, still, it works for DA2.

I should give up right here.

In DA1, youa re forced to be 'braiwnashed' by the Wardens

The Wardens offer your character a way out of a tough situation. In many cases it's the only option they have. There's no brainwashing involved, Vol, and though the situation eventually grows on you, you can treat the Warden gig as something stupid. And lose approval with Alistair, I imagine.

Meanwhile, Hawke's relationship with his family is set in stone and we, as the player character, have no chance to affect it. You even start with their friendship/rivalry meters filled out a good bit.

Are you fukkin' an idiot?

Don't call my girlfriend that.

EDIT: My girlfriend says she's a woman so she can't help it. Ouch.

Your mother's reasoning is fully explained in the game. Your family has ties in Kirkwall. Her side of the family are 'former nobles' (and as far as she knows when the journey starts still are). THAT'S why she wants to go Kirkwall.

THAT is very desperate, irrational reasoning. It's not really reasoning even! It's a CHANCE. She runs off from her posh home in Kirkwall with an illegal mage to start a family with him. They raise three kids, the oldest being somewhere between 35 and 45 (just so we can get a sense for exactly how long they've been living in Lothering), and she tries her best to keep contact but they ignore her. For all intent and purpose, she is disowned. No worries, they have a nice place in Lothering. Oh shit, here's the darkspawn. Where's the first place on your mind, mother, where we can seek refuge? The place you ran away from about 40 years ago? Yes, that sounds like the best course of action. We'll be welcomed back into the old family for sure!

*later in Kirkwall*

Well, I suppose things could've been worse.

As oppoed to Denerim where the authorities have turned their back on Lotehring residents (including yoU) and are being controlled by the turncoat Loghain.

I'll give you that I don't really remember if they closed the gates to Denerim or if Loghain's guards personally patrolled the streets to make sure Grey Wardens couldn't come and go as they pleased or if the chantries had closed down on the charity or if the other towns also burned... but I'm pretty sure that they didn't.

FFS

FFS yourself, Volleyball. Personally I would've run off to that pub outside the circle tower and stay there until the blight was all over with.

No true. Youc an turn every fetch quest in DA2.

1: Not true. Some of them are main quests.
2: Not true. If I turn down a quest it'll be recorded in my journal anyway and I'm free to do it anyway. "No, I'm not going to help you find your wife." "But thou must." "Alright, write it down in my journal when I'm not looking."

You are trying to be betetr your lfie, the DR quest is a good way to do that.

Hey, man, you need to make 50 gold coins so you can follow me and my brother down into the deep roads on an expedition. I guarantee we're operating on good information even though we don't actually have neither funding nor good maps yet. Trust us. BioWare won't let us down. We need to tell your story, Hawke! As quickly as possible.

yes, you are forced to do it story wise but it's definitely no worse than being forced to join the GW or 'save Feralden'.

I just want to clarify that we've gone into "DA2's story is shit" territory here, and no, it's not the same. Providing for your shitty family by taking a wild chance on some old dwarven tunnels is not the same thing as completing Dragon Age: Origins. Saving Ferelden is the goal of that game. What goal would you say Hawke is working for in DA2?

"Meanwhile in Origins, I am forced to save Ferelden since, well shit, I live there goddammit"

Just move. FFS Not that the reasoning here isn't bad. But, just move.

I'll just go ahead and say that my reasoning there is actually shitty. You can explore the possibility of running away from your responsibilities but in the end you're really locked in the quest to save Ferelden. The difference is that you have something to work towards in that game whereas DA2 is just ten stupid years of situations that Hawke, that wacky funster, gets roped into.

"The Warden has more say about the things offered in the game and most importantly, you're given a goal right from the start. Collect the four star maps. Recycled but at least it's something. There is no story in Dragon Age 2. It's just random convenient shit happening until you're the coolest badass in Kirkwall. That's a really crappy story."

Jokin' right/ Jokin' right? Hawke has just as much to say, and you are given a goal from the start - to improve your life, and that goal is extended and improved upon as you 'rise in the ranks'.

And you do manage to improve your life right as soon as you return from the deep roads. Game over? No, you continue to stumble upon adventures for no other reason than the fact that you are the main character.

Meanwhile your goal in DA1 is stagnant and remains the same for the ENTIRE FUKKIN' GAME NO MATTER WHAT YOU FUCKKIN' DO. There is no growth, there is only 'kill the archdemon'.

LMFAO

You never have a goal in DA2. The main plot is a tragic comedy of mishaps.

PROLOGUE: Hometown burns, brother/sister is killed by an ogre, flees to Kirkwall.
FIRST YEAR: Jerks off goats for either the mercenaries or the smugglers.
SECOND YEAR: Gets involved with the qunari, saves the viscount's son, becomes a co-owner of a mine, become friends with all sorts of people, assists both templars and mages, etc, etc, to save up money to hang on an expedition. Gets a taste for the qunari conflict as well as the mages/templars conflict.
THIRD YEAR: buys a house for all the invisible money
FOURTH YEAR: cutscene
FIFTH YEAR: cutscene
SIXTH YEAR: have sex with Anders, Merrill, Isabella and Fenris, mother is magically frankensteined and killed by a magician serial killer, uncovers and stops chantry-supported hate crime against the qunari, stops the qunari from raping Kirkwall to shit because Isabella stole their bible or some shit as well as some other things.
SEVENTH YEAR: cutscene
EIGHT YEAR: cutscene
NINTH YEAR: cutscene
TENTH YEAR: choose to support either the templars or the mages, don't worry, you have to fight both bosses anyway.

And cutscenes equals to nothing happens, except "you bought a house", "you saved Kirkwall from the qunari" and "you completed Dragon Age 2". Stagnation. No development. Shit sucks.

 

[Angthoron]

Hawke and Warden's child, Harden, of course.

 

[jazzotron]

Hawke and Warden's child, Harden, of course.

Harden De'Phuhkarp?

 

[Rivmusique]

Hawke: I played the DA2 demo and therefore wasn't dumb enough to invest time in the full game (did they ever give us a reason to care about our insta-family? Especially the one that dies?)

Warden: I liked him throughout Origins, didn't buy any of the more-money-for-BioWhore-DLC or Awakenings, so really have no idea what happened to that guy.

All in all, shit series kill it before it mutates beyond the abomination that was DA2.

 

[Havoc]

Warden the Play Doh or Hawke the Cardboard Cutout?

With Hawke you can't do shit. You're just following his story like in ME & ME2. Like an interactive movie, not a RPG, but at least the Commander is intelligent.

With Warden you can play with the clay and make your warden, but the clay is so fucking old you're going to have a hard time to make what you want. You get what you get and play with it. It isn't great, but at least you can somehow model it.

 

[Serious_Business]

In 5 years Dragon Age Origins will be a classic rpg and people will join the Codex saying that DA2 ruined the genre. This is when I'll stop posting here

 

[Volourn]

"Oh shit, here's the darkspawn. Where's the first place on your mind, mother, where we can seek refuge? The place you ran away from about 40 years ago?"

When shit goes to hell, people tend to turn to family.

 

[kris]

The warden was whatever, but you could kind of make your own character.

Hawke was just a passive spectators to his own story, someone devoid of character. And with his whole family killed off... he cared as little as the player.

 

[Volourn]

Why? His whole family wasn't killed off unlike the Warden's. At the end of the game I had my sis, uncle, and cousin still alive. With my Warden my father and both my bros were dead. 100% casualty rate! r00FLES!

 

[Captain Shrek]

Why? His whole family wasn't killed off unlike the Warden's. At the end of the game I had my sis, uncle, and cousin still alive. With my Warden my father and both my bros were dead. 100% casualty rate! r00FLES!

No nigga. Fergus does NOT die if you play the Human Noble.

 

[Volourn]

So 1 comapred to 3 in DA2. LMFAO

And, it was 3/3 in a real playthrough of DA.

 

[Captain Shrek]

So 1 comapred to 3 in DA2. LMFAO

And, it was 3/3 in a real playthrough of DA.

lame excuse is lame.

 

[Karmapowered]

Who do you want to see as the epic hero of Dragon Age 3, sunday morning cartoon watchers?

If I really had to choose, and assuming it wouldn't be the same Leidlaw - Goldman - Gaider clowns at the wheel this time, I'd pick The Warden.

Bioware is going to have hell of a hard time to find good deals on "Raise from dead fanbase" scrolls though, Obsidian pretty much plundered the stock with MOTB / Fallout NV.

So I prefer to think there won't be any DA3.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Then again, Obsidian has several bros who can Scribe Awesome.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Then again, Obsidian has several bros who can Scribe Awesome.

I must admit I have gained a completely newfound respect for Obsidian. Last month I played KOTOR 2. This month (March) I played AP.

KOTOR 2 in itself is a great step forward from Furry romance of KOTOR1 to a profound philosophical journey (from Video game standards) with Kreia! AP was a fun RP element bearing action game with great C&C that actually made be play it twice.

I am now nearly half mind about playing fallout: New Vegas.

Should I give it a try? What say you?

 

[Karmapowered]

I must admit I have gained a completely newfound respect for Obsidian.

Ditto here. I have been a not so recent convert (actually happened with the release of MOTB).
Before, I rather looked dubiously at them, and their games at me (bugs and such).

Last month I played KOTOR 2. This month (March) I played AP.

KOTOR 2 in itself is a great step forward from Furry romance of KOTOR1 to a profound philosophical journey (from Video game standards) with Kreia! AP was a fun RP element bearing action game with great C&C that actually made be play it twice.

I am now nearly half mind about playing fallout: New Vegas.

Should I give it a try? What say you?

In my opinion, the only bad thing about Fallout NV is the engine.

If you only remotely liked the Fallout universe, give it a try. It is worth it, honest.

There is a rather good mod compilation for it too, if you enjoy that kind of thing.

 

[Commissar Draco]

DA3 Mask of Betreyer, Warden is possed by tewinter mage who defiled golden city and coused the Blight, Behold epic fight to end blight and regain your humanity... Scratch that even Obsidian won't resurrect this corpse, after KOR fall EA will assume direct control and purge Biowhores. Atlast the

 

[Captain Shrek]

In my opinion, the only bad thing about Fallout NV is the engine.

If you only remotely liked the Fallout universe, give it a try. It is worth it, honest.

There is a rather good mod compilation for it too, if you enjoy that kind of thing.

Looks very promising. April and May have something to look forward to then!

Thanks!

 

[Captain Shrek]

Atlast the

The tragedy is that there is no incline. Just temporary cessation of manufacturing spoiled goods.