Review Jeff Vogel Reviews Dragon Age II

[Befuddled Halfling]

"It's the sequel to one of the best-written, epic, envelope-pushing RPGs pretty much ever."

That's proof right there. These inbred fucks who fap over DAO are a disgrace to the fucking human race.

DAO is, and always has been, a highway-prostitute-cheap knock-off of BG2 in anything but story.

While I agree that the wording of that tribute to DA:O is insanely OTT, surely most people would (however begrudingly) accept that DA:O was in the top 3 'hardcore' wRPGs in the last 7 years (others imo being NWN2, Drakensang), and is also the last 'hardcore'-ish RPG we will see in a loooooooong time (sorry, at the moment the Witcher 2 just looks like pretty screenshots). I think DA:O deserved a cautious critical reception, and not the complete 'rip it a new one' trashing you're talking about. The story was cliched too, but the way it was told was fine, at least for my poor tastes. The lead designer of DA:O lost his job at BioWare for being this old-school with a major new IP - the doctors didn't check up on his progress until quite late, and then they were certain no-one would buy something this "vestigial". Instead it got triple platinum sales (showing that the doctors' business acumen is not all it's cracked up to be). If we don't appreciate that Origins was a least a good try and a welcome step in the right direction, then are we honestly about the fight to get decent RPG's to reappear? Or just ranting about everything except PS:T because we enjoy ranting... (yeah, just re-read that last part - I'm trying for the 2011 Captain Obvious Award). All I'm saying is - is the hive-hate on DA:O really (honestly) 100% justified, and ia it at least possible for some to cut a bit of slack for a game that bucked the trend?

OT - the rest of what Vogel writes is also shit (except for the slight whinge about thin-air spawning), and until he put this up, I had respect for the man. I guess his first interview with BioWare went well...

 

[dragonfk]

Well, this review bodes well for future games of his.

 

[circ]

Jeff Vogel reviews DA2? HOW BIZARRE HOW BIZARRE.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Good thing Vogel lacks the money to do the kind of games he admires.

 

[Roguey]

Vogel gonna Voge.

Then he played the It's all EA's fault!!!!111 crap.

What is EA's fault? He loves the writing, he loves the companions, the skill system is great, he likes the combat and even though he admits it's button mashing it doesn't actually bother him at all, the game does have the Dragon Age Magic (tm)... he even thinks the spawning reinforcements are a good idea, just not implemented as well as it could be (and his beef seems to be purely visual). A "flawed product"? what flaws? he didn't mention a single one. Even what at first seems like a flaw turns out to be either something that's not a problem at all, or a great gameplay idea that just has a silly animation going with it.

The mini-"review" just doesn't make any sense.

Suppose further that EA had given Bioware the bit of extra time and budget necessary to fix the game's most notable flaws. (Dungeon layouts reused to an egregious extent. A bizarre combat system where reinforcements pop in from out of nowhere. Extreme bugginess, especially in the late game.)
...
Other people have dumped on this game enough. Let's take a moment to look at the nice things.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Coboney]

Sadly Vogel likes this game - thankfully he can't mimic it. Maybe its that he enjoys playing mindless story-weak games in his free time?

On the whole I really enjoy Vogel's games so lets keep him away from the big budget stuff. I hope Avadon is good - personally my favourite of his games is Geneforge and it seems he went a bit away from that.

 

[Coyote]

Jeff Vogel has shitty taste, more news at eleven.

Guys, we already knew this, no need to beat the dead horse.

Yeah, pretty much. In fact, this thread is now about Avadon, a much more worthy topic of discussion than Jeff Vogel's opinions.

Now that it's been out for a while, has anyone here given it a try? Does it live up to the quality of his previous series, or did he try too hard to make it like the Bioware games he so admires? (There were some things that made me facepalm when reading about its development, but I can't remember what.) And which of his previous games does it most closely resemble? It looks more like a member of Avernum series at a glance, but does it possess any of Geneforge's good qualities?

 

[Davaris]

I wonder how many fruitless job applications he's sent to Bioware over the years.

 

[Stalin]

DA was shit buried under 10 tons of voice overs.

 

[sser]

Some slight elitism in his dismissal of the user reviews.

 

[ElectricOtter]

If they had entered the fray in a less immersion-breaking way (say, running from deeper in the dungeon), it would have worked better. However, this basic idea of how to structure combat shows a lot of potential, and I hope other games explore it. (Which is my way of saying:  I really should steal that idea.)

NO

 

[Johannes]

If they had entered the fray in a less immersion-breaking way (say, running from deeper in the dungeon), it would have worked better. However, this basic idea of how to structure combat shows a lot of potential, and I hope other games explore it. (Which is my way of saying:  I really should steal that idea.)

NO

It's not a bad mechanism if used well, that the enemy reinforces at some point in a battle. It encourages to kill the initial enemies quickly.
Of course if the combat is just dull, and the reinforcement just makes the dull encounter longer, it sucks. But then the main problem is shitty boring combat system.

It's always been pretty moronic anyway in a lot of games that the enemies kindly wait around a dungeon that you take them on group by group, instead of either calling for help and reinforcing, or falling back and meeting your party together that way. If you want to look at it from a realism perspective.

 

[Higher Game]

Jeff Vogel is a bird that needs to be put down. It's nothing but an insane coincidence that he made his so-so games that some of you like. A stroke of luck, a monkey with a keyboard. How much more insanity does he have to spew before you'll see it?

Hey now, for a few years he was the the only guy making serious RPGs. He's one smart monkey, even though there are more evolved indies around these days. Just let him screech a bit and hopefully he'll forget everything, eat some bananas, and go back to doing his own thing.

 

[Sisay]

Good thing Vogel lacks the money to do the kind of games he admires.

Just wait until you play Avadon.

Which of his previous games does it most closely resemble?

I've only really played Nethergate and the Geneforge series, but out of those Avadon is the closest to Geneforge 3. Very linear, very few choices. I replayed G5 after completing Avadon and I have to say it made Avadon look pretty bad. Some of the combat changes are fairly nice, though.

 

[Nael]

 

[waywardOne]

who the fuck is vogel? is there actually a contingent here who feel superior because they feel they're on a first name basis with random devs? there are countless reviews of DA2 on the net; why does this one get special consideration? isn't this the same joker that thinks listening to criticisms from fans is a no-no?

fuck vogel, and fuck you, RPGCodex, for enshrining him on your pedestal of sophistry.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[bhlaab]

found a punctuation error in this newspost

Nobody puts great writing in games like Bioware.

should be

Nobody puts great writing in games, like Bioware.

 

[Volourn]

"Some slight elitism in his dismissal of the user reviews."

Is a Codexer REALLY crying about elitism? FFS That's what the Codex is fukkin' about. One person proclaiming themselevs above another person.

FUCK YEAH!!!

 

[tetsuo]

Shitty Game dev likes shit games yeah big deal.

 

[Gondolin]

Just wait until you play Avadon.

I've only really played Nethergate and the Geneforge series, but out of those Avadon is the closest to Geneforge 3. Very linear, very few choices. I replayed G5 after completing Avadon and I have to say it made Avadon look pretty bad. Some of the combat changes are fairly nice, though.

Words fail me...

 

[Lord Andre]

"It's the sequel to one of the best-written, epic, envelope-pushing RPGs pretty much ever."

That's proof right there. These inbred fucks who fap over DAO are a disgrace to the fucking human race.

DAO is, and always has been, a highway-prostitute-cheap knock-off of BG2 in anything but story.

While I agree that the wording of that tribute to DA:O is insanely OTT, surely most people would (however begrudingly) accept that DA:O was in the top 3 'hardcore' wRPGs in the last 7 years (others imo being NWN2, Drakensang), and is also the last 'hardcore'-ish RPG we will see in a loooooooong time (sorry, at the moment the Witcher 2 just looks like pretty screenshots). I think DA:O deserved a cautious critical reception, and not the complete 'rip it a new one' trashing you're talking about. The story was cliched too, but the way it was told was fine, at least for my poor tastes. The lead designer of DA:O lost his job at BioWare for being this old-school with a major new IP - the doctors didn't check up on his progress until quite late, and then they were certain no-one would buy something this "vestigial". Instead it got triple platinum sales (showing that the doctors' business acumen is not all it's cracked up to be). If we don't appreciate that Origins was a least a good try and a welcome step in the right direction, then are we honestly about the fight to get decent RPG's to reappear? Or just ranting about everything except PS:T because we enjoy ranting... (yeah, just re-read that last part - I'm trying for the 2011 Captain Obvious Award). All I'm saying is - is the hive-hate on DA:O really (honestly) 100% justified, and ia it at least possible for some to cut a bit of slack for a game that bucked the trend?

OT - the rest of what Vogel writes is also shit (except for the slight whinge about thin-air spawning), and until he put this up, I had respect for the man. I guess his first interview with BioWare went well...

You are both right and wrong at the same time. Let me explain myself:
If taken out of context and reviewed in zero gravity void, then DAO is ok and playable...still not the brightest pickle in the jar but playable.
However, the cultural leaders of this new shallow-zero-depth-console-retarded movement that we face today, have proclaimed DAO their Mesiah, and along with Oblivion and Fallout 3, it is their flagship, their rallying point against quality, creativeness and art. They did that, not me. Therefore it is my sworn duty to rip it a new one, burn it and piss on the ashes of their cursed antichrist. Also, your definition of hardcore needs a little reconsidering.

On the fact that Vogel is an indie RPG developer, I do not see any reason for him to get a free pass at being stupid because of that. No need for double standards, one standard will serve us just fine.

 

[felipepepe]

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Why is it that crap developers like Todd Howard admire and try to duplicate games like Ultima 7 but good ones like Tim Cain love Oblivion. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

[Jaesun]

He does?