the most dark mature and intelligent RPGs

[neverbug]

Im trying to make a list of rpgs that succesfully create a dark brooding mood, tackle mature themes, and have intelligent thoughtful writing. but tbh there aren't that many. many games that try or or marketed as such are actually pretty childich (dragon age series). here's what I have so far:

1. Planescape Torment
2. Witcher series
3. Mask of the betrayer? (maybe, not sure about this onje)
4. ???

help me fill the list!

 

[Wyrmlord]

Define mature themes. Is it:

Divorce? Religion? Medical insurance? Logical positivism?

Moreover, are those things really important for roleplaying games? It's precisely why one might not find or is not supposed to find mature RPGs. No?

 

[ever]

Ultima, Ultima, Ultima, Ultima.

Ultima deals with things like divorce, religion and moral absolutism. It doesn't deal with medical insurance but for example in the Black Gate the fellowship tells people that Healers are no good for them, and that they should try and overcome their sicknesses by themselves.

Anywho, Ultima VII: The Black Gate was by far the most adult role playing game I have ever played, and probably ever will.

For a quick comparison take a look at the laughable way narcotics are treated in The Witcher ( yeah I'm a badass dealing drugs, man this is so badass and adult ), compared to the way they are treated in The Black Gate ( Paws quest with the rich kid whose parents that run the homeless shelter, and the farmer kid and his mother, his father is wrongly in jail IIRC ).

Also I know a lot of people here will probably disagree, but Planescape Torment is garbage in terms of quality of ideas. The writing is nice and descriptive but really its just garbage. Wall of text after wall of text of really asinine junk. I don't think the game is "mature" at all. It seems to be targeted at people around the age of fourteen to twenty one.

 

[Infinitron]

Ultima, Ultima, Ultima, Ultima.

Ultima deals with things like divorce, religion and moral absolutism. It doesn't deal with medical insurance but for example in the Black Gate the fellowship tells people that Healers are no good for them, and that they should try and overcome their sicknesses by themselves.

Only Ultima VII really fits this criteria. The Ultima series as a whole isn't all that 'mature'. Though Ultima VIII is sort of faux-grimdark, which isn't the same thing.

 

[someone else]

Darksun. Man-eating hobbits!

 

[DriacKin]

Witcher? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[made]

Yeah, Ultima 5 in particular had a very heavy mood. Draconian law enforcement, peasants suffering, rich benefiting, former friends turning on each other, stuff like that. Ofc writing in Ultimas was very limited, so it doesn't compare to the likes of PST in terms of depth.

Bloodnet, too, had a very bleak atmosphere. There was this hospital for patients who suffer from some kind of neural disease and shit. Though it's been a while, I don't really remember how intelligent the writing was. Also Dreamweb comes to mind, but that ain't an RPG.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, Ultima 5 in particular had a very heavy mood. Draconian law enforcement, peasants suffering, rich benefiting, former friends turning on each other, stuff like that. Ofc writing in Ultimas was very limited, so it doesn't compare to the likes of PST in terms of depth.

Having a good amount of quality writing is almost a prerequisite for a "mature" RPG. No matter how grimdark the atmosphere, it simply won't be believably mature if NPCs can only bark out the same two or three sentences.
So that disqualifies a lot of older games.

 

[sser]

I thought the first Dragon Age had plenty of dark themes. I mean the game didn't really wrap up all that well in the end, but there were individual places that were or could be quite grim.

 

[Haba]

r00fles!

Shin Megami Tensei?

uh...

Darklands?

er...

A lot of old games appear to be mature and brooding, but I think it is mainly because they lacked the resources to go all herp-a-derp.

 

[ever]

Only Ultima VII really fits this criteria. The Ultima series as a whole isn't all that 'mature'. Though Ultima VIII is sort of faux-grimdark, which isn't the same thing.

I didn't mean the first three games if that's what you're thinking.

Obviously in IV and V, the technology simply wasn't there for writing to be what makes the game less childish, but it came through in other areas.

Ultima IV is the only game so far that properly lets you win only if you really are a hero. Not because you were 'the chosen one' to begin with, and all you had to do was kill the "bad guy" in whatever manner you pleased.

Ultima V talks about what happens when the principles your character showed the people of Britannia ( in the last game ) become law, and why what morally is the right thing to do doesn't mean it can apply everywhere as law without terrible consequences.

Ultima VI doesn't have a particularly interesting premise like the other two but its the first one where Britannia starts becoming fleshed out, so the quality starts showing everywhere. Also the ending was cool.

Every other game just fails abysmally when it comes to the "social" or "human" apsect that really there can be no other answer to "what are some non-childish role playing games"

 

[kasmas]

dialogues wise i'd go with VtM:B

 

[racofer]

Mass Effect 1.
Mass Effect 2.
Mass Effect 3.
Dragon Age: Origins.
Dragon Age: Awakening.
Dragon Age 2.
CoD : Black Ops.

 

[FatCat]

there is none

 

[DriacKin]

dialogues wise i'd go with VtM:B

WTF?
There was nothing dark about VtM:B or particularly intelligent about it either.

 

[Wilco]

List is missing Arcanum. It's a little more 'serious' then most similar rpgs of its time. Particularly the disturbing rape quest that bitches were saying was too misogynistic.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Legend of Mana? Ignore the art style and it's a relatively dark game.

 

[Konjad]

bloodlines

 

[Radisshu]

dialogues wise i'd go with VtM:B

WTF?
There was nothing dark about VtM:B

Uh.. Are you confusing dark with mature?

 

[racofer]

Does anyone knows where this scene took place:

??

Because I don't recall it.

 

[Pliffmaster]

Not in the released game afaik. It is an old press release screen shot. The model for Tourette is also different from the one used in the release version.

 

[MetalCraze]

Looook we have tits in our potato gaem and the main character is a half-silent potato douchebag talking like Christian Bale, the potato writing is retarded and characters are unbelievable and can only impress 15 years old teenagers or potato turds.

Dark.
(I have a hard past, I will talk like retarded Christian Bale in Batman now)

Mature.
(Tits)

Intelligent.
(A totally unsuspicious steroid-rage monk in a town where everyone wants a piece of king kills him while a bodyguard watches a different direction - PLOT TWEEESST)

 

[Serious_Business]

Looook we have tits in our potato gaem and the main character is a half-silent potato douchebag talking like Christian Bale, the potato writing is retarded and characters are unbelievable and can only impress 15 years old teenagers or potato turds.

Dark.
(I have a hard past, I will talk like retarded Christian Bale in Batman now)

Mature.
(Tits)

Intelligent.
(A totally unsuspicious steroid-rage monk in a town where everyone wants a piece of king kills him while a bodyguard watches a different direction - PLOT TWEEESST)

Keep grinding that irony skill bro, you'll pull it off sooner or later, I smiled slighty, almost there

Well, I'd add KoTOR 2 to the list.

Also, no one will listen to me but I'm feeling like it : Final fantasy tactics

I'm not making the old hat point that games aren't about intelligent-mature-monocle shit, they're games. Kids play with toys, and you play them too you fucking man-child. Time to play Mass Effect 2 and read a book, your standards are getting in the way of your hobby Codex, you need to move to the next level

 

[mangsy]

Clearly Fallout 1 and 2.

And VtMB does a great job at establishing a "dark brooding mood" and atmosphere. Whether it meets the other criteria is debatable. Amazing game though.

 

[King Crispy]

Of all the RPG's I've ever played, Darklands is the one that made me feel a bit weird playing it. Could be because of the subject of witchcraft it explores, could be because of its loosely being based on European history.

Does that make it "dark" or "mature"? It was certainly different.

 

[Black_Willow]

oblivian its dark and grity