Could we jst ban people who say they pirate new indie games?

[Melcar]

The Codex needs a DRM system.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How about banning anyone with a GD percentage above 60?

Get back into the locker, nerd.

$10-20 can still be way too much for someone in thirdworldia. I don't know. Have some compassion for those in shitholes.

How come this someone can afford the PC but don't have 10$?

The most probable explanation would be because he's paying rates back for the computer to the bank and because he's paying for the internet connection now, which all eat up his computer budget.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

The Codex needs a DRM system.

But what if my internet connection fails?! Wait...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

The Codex needs a DRM system.

But what if my internet connection fails?! Wait...

 

[DarkUnderlord]

But now I'm wondering what other secret tools of the trade you possess that will limit the behaviour of which you speak without a ban and that will satisfy my irrational hunger for freedom (tm)

For once I could expect the local populace to understand that NOT telling everyone in an interview or news thread how you will totally pirate this game because:
1) it has DRM
2) it's on steam
3) it's not on steam
4) it doesn't have DRM
5) 1000 other reasons
6) if all else fails then because it's *shit*

could contribute towards getting more interviews in the future. Basically, you all could just stop doing it because I say so. Doing what I tell you when I tell you is a guarantee for awesome results irl too.

Yeah, this reasoning I'm less a fan of. If freedom of speech results in us getting less interviews (which it has, ref. Bethesda blacklisting the Codex) then that's the price we pay.

This is sort of the path VD went down... Banning people because niggers and jews and us not getting content as a result (Bethesda did essentially point to tubgirl in our forums after all and say "that is not appropriate and therefore not a site we wish to be associated with" - which we all know was really just a cover for us saying they sucked).

If it comes down to a choice, I'd prefer the priority was on opinionated news and quality reviews - above and beyond suck-up interviews. I just want to avoid the legions of "Hey let's pirate this!" stuff. As with anything, in moderation is fine but I certainly don't want the site to turn into a pirate's den - so to speak - because as much as freedom of speech is a core value, so is the fact that we aren't poor stupid bums here. If you can't or don't believe something is worth the price being charged, you don't buy it (that's how capitalism is supposed to work after all) and you don't acquire it by other methods while tooting your horn about how bad IP is and how much the developer sucks and it was shit anyway - because that's just a stupid contradiction.

As I said, it boils down to "nothing illegal". IE: While tubgirl might be fine, kiddie porn is right out.

Like all things, there's a balance between discussing piracy (and having an open, honest and worthwhile discussion about it and having the freedom to do so) versus a constant stream of stupid herp-a-derp comments from shitposters (which is always a fine line to draw anyway).

I think local rules would be the best, this way all groups would find their places. Actually it works that way, we just need to improve it a little bit.

For example we could forbid piracy discussions in RPG Codex (and TCancer) News & Content Comments, and perhaps gaming forums. However it should be fully allowed in GD (where everything would be always allowed, as right now).

At the least something like this. We're certainly more stringent against shitposters in forums outside GD.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

It's 2011, nobody gives a fuck if you steal shit from the internets. I know some of you are from third world shitty-stans where the net is literally 500 years ahead of it's time. But acting all hard and edgy about piracy is a little passé at this point.

The gog threads for example are guaranteed to be smothered by drooling retards.

Damn son, that's a big pile of stodge even for you.

 

[Cassidy]

Moralfags are as annoying as "LOL IM PIRATING X IM SO EDGY". Also comparing illegal copying of a content where the original source isn't lost after it was copied, and where there is no guarantee the person who copied it would have bought it instead otherwise, with theft, is buying bullshit MAFIAA propaganda.

 

[TripJack]

you guys actually take posts on the codex seriously?

how quaint

 

[Satan]

The fact is that you cannot have the Codex without the Codex, and that's essentially what you seem to want.

Depends what the 'Codex' is... A place where people are free to mercilessly critique any and all video games or a place where people can just spam stupid memes for the sake of looking cool on a message forum? I have no problem with colorful language but it should at least be used to make some substantive point rather than for trolling purposes. If every other post some jerkoff makes is 'lol i will piratez/tpb version derp derp' then they aren't posting anything meaningful. Even Skyway makes legitimate criticisms now and then despite doing so in a retarded manner.

Seems like the trolling is working... I agree it's retarded to brag about pirating stuff etc etc but why let it get to you like that? Just don't let posts like that bother you, or, like some people do, scale that shit to your level by using the ignore function. Seriously, why care that much about shit posts?

It's not about being annoyed by retards. It's not hard to ignore stupid posts. The thing is posts like that hurt prestigious Codex's reputation, therefore it's less and less prestigious. I'd rather have more interviews on the Codex than skyways writing how cool they are because they pirate shitty games.

Seriously, you could just make pirate den topic in GD and shit there whatever you want, leaving gaming forums alone, so it won't decline the whole codex.

 

[made]

I'd rather have skyway's insane ramblings than Bethbio PR interviews that I might as well read everywhere else. At least he's occasionally amusing.

 

[Satan]

But you could have them in GD, the point is just to keep it away from gaming forums.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Hey Konjad stop trying to suggest stuff to the Codex, and start posting pony pics like always.

On topic, this whole thing was spawned from the question as to there to not to remove from inventory a copy of KotC.

It would seem that if codex consensus is reached, one could simply flag the post in question als being dumb or whatever and our fine overlords will take appropriate action. I would not like to change the Codex, I'm with DU on this one, if we pay the price by not getting AAA interviews then so be it, because if this place changes, it will just be another <insert name here>. Also is it not great to discuss?! the merits of having or not having Steam/DRM/free-to-play and other mechanics each time over and over again, it is glorious indeed.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

I'd rather have skyway's insane ramblings than Bethbio PR interviews that I might as well read everywhere else. At least he's occasionally amusing.

Actually... BioBeth PR on the Codex may have provided a never-ending source of scintillating lulz, dwarfing BTEs in delicious retardation. Would've been like dexnip growing right on your balcony.

On the other hand, this isn't Narnia, so no matter how much you suck up and lube up for those big boys, they're still going to be ridiculed here - which is the only real issue they have with this place.
As for piracy talks: you can hide away or censor them altogether, codexer sales won't improve. And already being an inconsequential minority, making these boards a more welcoming experience for above devs won't change a thing in the end products.

As for the actual piracy butthurt here, I was under the impression that most of it was directed at possibly-shit games, and on a rare occasion of a game they liked, people tended to post their intentions to buy. Not including the hipster derp shitposters that gonna shitpost and should be contained regardless of the 'legal grounds' or moralfags' objections.
Unless, of course, the word "indie" has suddenly began to automatically mean "good" or "enjoyable" or "quality" and are now exempt from being a waste of money without demoing.

 

[Coyote]

@DwarvenFood: I think it was actually a response to the Frayed Knights discussion starting around here.

DarkUnderlord himself made an EXCELLENT post on the subject, explaining this much better than me, (in the RPGCodex is a cesspool thread?), in response to Vibalist.

I saved a link to that because I liked it, too. (Assuming we're talking about the same post; it's in a different thread and a response to Lockkaliber, but you linked to it in the cesspool thread IIRC.) You can find it here. It's worth reading through the whole thing as well as some of the responses, but here's a relevant excerpt:

Take a look at any other forum. What happens? Someone creates an inane topic. Somehow or another that topic slightly diverts. Someone comes along and champions one side of an issue or cause that topic is now about. Someone else who disagrees begins to champion the opposing side.

The two sides have at each other for a while. Other members call for the thread to be locked because the argument is getting too heated. Someone else calls for them to take it to PMs. The thread is locked. Another thread is (typically) created in its place or the same discussion ends up cropping up in other threads. The effect of locking the thread to end the discussion fails, so more drastic action is taken.

Someone gets banned. Everything goes to shit as people decide that the ban was too harsh or not harsh enough. If he was banned, why not that other guy? While another camp sets up on the "something must be done" bandwagon and asks for more people to be banned. The moderators go X-TREME™ and start locking shit down left and right. "We will not tolerate any more discussion on X topic". The forum loses a bunch of members who don't like the way things are going. Soon enough, things calm down but eventually, the cycle gets repeated.

The Codex went the opposide way. Two fags want to have at each other over the internet? Cool. Why should I care? It's not like I get paid to babysit. If they want to go on for 20 pages creating epic posts in reply to each other, why should we stop them? Eventually, the two sides tire of it and things die down. Someone says something really dumb that tos earn them a tag. Some people leave because they can't handle it. No-one gets banned. The issue mostly stays in the one topic which becomes some sort of epic memory for the old-timers "Oh hey, you remember when X got dumbfucked?". Everyone moves on quite naturally.

Yes the really Retarded shit does need to be dealt with (after everyone's had 20 pages of fun with it) and yes, from time to time you do need to stop the spam (the kind where someone goes on a spree posting the same message eighty times in a one hour period). You moderate the Codex anymore than that though and you lose what the Codex is about.

@MisterStone: I'm not a fan of the piracy edginess/attention-whoring that frequently pops up either - by which I mean posts where there's no apparent purpose other than to say "Look at me! I pirate!" - but I do like that we can have an open and frank discussion about piracy without worrying about the banhammer, at least when enough people are interested in doing so rather than posting one-liners and the emoticon. The people in the Frayed Knights thread, the last time I checked it, were doing so, and if you're that strongly opposed to it then I'd recommend getting in there and adding your opinion to the fray. Even if arguing about it with someone as amoral/solely devoted to her own self-interest as Black Cat has identified herself as being seems like an exercise in frustration, it might help you blow off some steam and is more likely to sway on-the-fence lurkers than asking that the people with whom you disagree be silenced. Plus, it'd be refreshing to have some more perspectives that go against the circle-jerk.

With regard to the broader topic of shit-posting on the Codex, DU's view above largely reflects my own. I'd rather have a Codex where people are free to post anything that's not illegal, including banal one-liners (whether I'm personally a fan of the one-liner in question or not), than one where we start placing limits on what people are allowed to say because we disagree with them or it might hurt the site's reputation. There are already dozens of gaming/RPG sites that censor their posters in order to appear more attractive to devs; part of what makes the Codex unique and more attractive to me than those other sites is its devotion to free speech. That said, I do agree with DU's/Konjad's posts in this thread stating that shit-posting is more appropriate/tolerable in some forums than in others; I'd expect a post in GRPGD or the Workshop entitled "Niggers and RPGs" with a level of content befitting of the title to get retardoed quickly, while the same post in GD might not.

I've noticed that the people with the greatest investment in maintaining the 'right to derp' are those that have nothing meaningful to contribute otherwise.

I don't really see this. For instance, Grunker, who has posted in this thread several times: I may not always agree with him (RISEN!! *shakes fist*), but he knows his stuff when it comes RPGs, both video games and P&P, and frequently contributes well-reasoned, quality posts with a wheat-to-chaff ratio that far surpasses a lot of other posters.

 

[hanssolo]

The last time I paid for a game was KotC. I will consider paying for a game again when one of comparable value is released.

 

[Coyote]

As for the actual piracy butthurt here, I was under the impression that most of it was directed at possibly-shit games, and on a rare occasion of a game they liked, people tended to post their intentions to buy. Not including the hipster derp shitposters that gonna shitpost and should be contained regardless of the 'legal grounds' or moralfags' objections.
Unless, of course, the word "indie" has suddenly began to automatically mean "good" or "enjoyable" or "quality" and are now exempt from being a waste of money without demoing.

The reasons more people are butthurt about pirating indie games don't necessarily have to do with their quality. Generally, indies (a) are self-published, meaning that the money you pay actually goes to the people who made the game, (b) lack DRM, (c) are more likely than mainstream games to try something new/different (and in some cases, like Frayed Knights and Knights of the Chalice, they're more likely to appeal to some Codexers as a result), and (d) have relatively small fanbases, so if you are a fan of the sort of game an indie company made and want to see them produce more/higher-quality games of a similar sort, every sale counts. They also - and this is true in the case of both FK and KotC* - (e) tend to have demos more often than not, giving you the opportunity to try before you buy without downloading the whole game. Altogether, these properties - of which only c and d have anything to do with quality - shut down a lot of the justifications that some pirates use to download/torrent games, so it makes sense that more people would be more up in arms about pirating indies even if they don't believe that all piracy is wrong.

* I didn't get very far into FK's demo before deciding I wasn't interested, but I haven't seen anyone complain that it's not substantial enough to give you a sense of how enjoyable the game is.

 

[Luigi]

The last time I paid for a game was KotC. I will consider paying for a game again when one of comparable value is released.

stop guilting me into sending them money...

 

[Walkin' Dude]

I just read the Frayed Nights thread. Can we ban people who use the word stuffies? Forget the piracy crap.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I just read the Frayed Nights thread. Can we ban people who use the word stuffies? Forget the piracy crap.

hahahah


/thread

 

[Bulba]

Personaly, I find it strange, that peole who pay for games get offended by pirates. If you can affored all games, tahn it's you who should be shouting "in your face beggars" and offending the moneyless population of codex.

My sugestion is to ban all paying gamers (the 1%), so that they do not offend the majoraty

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

As for the actual piracy butthurt here, I was under the impression that most of it was directed at possibly-shit games, and on a rare occasion of a game they liked, people tended to post their intentions to buy. Not including the hipster derp shitposters that gonna shitpost and should be contained regardless of the 'legal grounds' or moralfags' objections.
Unless, of course, the word "indie" has suddenly began to automatically mean "good" or "enjoyable" or "quality" and are now exempt from being a waste of money without demoing.

The reasons more people are butthurt about pirating indie games don't necessarily have to do with their quality. Generally, indies (a) are self-published, meaning that the money you pay actually goes to the people who made the game, (b) lack DRM, (c) are more likely than mainstream games to try something new/different (and in some cases, like Frayed Knights and Knights of the Chalice, they're more likely to appeal to some Codexers as a result), and (d) have relatively small fanbases, so if you are a fan of the sort of game an indie company made and want to see them produce more/higher-quality games of a similar sort, every sale counts. They also - and this is true in the case of both FK and KotC* - (e) tend to have demos more often than not, giving you the opportunity to try before you buy without downloading the whole game. Altogether, these properties - of which only c and d have anything to do with quality - shut down a lot of the justifications that some pirates use to download/torrent games, so it makes sense that more people would be more up in arms about pirating indies even if they don't believe that all piracy is wrong.

Generally, almost everyone from the "pirating/bashing indie brigade" is from developing/3rd world countries where people usually buy games when they reach a price of 5-10$. The whole point of the price decrease mechanism of the AAA games is to allow making money on the less fortunate people too. Indies don't have such a mechanism.

 

[Coyote]

I'm aware of that; I'm not saying that those properties address the only reasons people might pirate, but that they do address some of the reasons that people pirate. Mostly I was just responding to the assumption (which skyway also mentioned earlier) that more people are opposed to pirating indies because they see indie as equivalent to good, which doesn't take into account other common qualities of indie games - such as the availability of demos and lack of DRM - that differentiate them from most mainstream ones.

 

[Jason]

Nope and that's not the the point anyway. The point is you don't advertise it here on the Codex with direct links, especially those who upload pirated stuff to download sites and post the links here. We do have a point about supporting indie developers here and hey, if you want to know what something is like, you ask. It's why we've got that whole freedom of speech thing - so you don't have to worry about someone giving you some fake glowing opinion about a piece of shit because they were playing with words to avoid getting banned.

Also: #10.

Banning people for just talking about piracy though, is a bit dumb. But there's a line in there somewhere and we don't need jerk-offs talking about everything they pirated and how cool they are. Especially if that's all that poster does. Like piracy itself, there are those who have the "try before you buy" attitude and genuinely want to support good product, and then there are those who are more "Fuck you capitalist pig dog scum! I pay for nothing! You hear me? NOTHING!" and think it makes them cool. And if there's something the Codex could do with less of, it's communists/foreigners.

Pretty much agree with DU, although I had to fix the last line.


As to the more important "stuffies" issue, I recommend we use the word filter to change "stuffies" to "I am a nubile teenage girl who is desperately turned on by fat lonely nerds so please pm me ASAP".

 

[Jaesun]

For example we could forbid piracy discussions in RPG Codex (and TCancer) News & Content Comments, and perhaps gaming forums. However it should be fully allowed in GD (where everything would be always allowed, as right now).

At the least something like this. We're certainly more stringent against shitposters in forums outside GD.

I like that as well.

And the thread in GRPG Discussions should be moved to GD, stickied and renamed "Let's Discuss Piracy: Of Butthurt and Drama Obscura. (if possible just merge all the Piracy posts from that thread).

If people try to discuss piracy in the other forums, we can direct them to that thread.

As to the more important "stuffies" issue, I recommend we use the word filter to change "stuffies" to "I am a nubile teenage girl who is desperately turned on by fat lonely nerds so please pm me ASAP".

 

[Satan]

As for the actual piracy butthurt here, I was under the impression that most of it was directed at possibly-shit games, and on a rare occasion of a game they liked, people tended to post their intentions to buy. Not including the hipster derp shitposters that gonna shitpost and should be contained regardless of the 'legal grounds' or moralfags' objections.
Unless, of course, the word "indie" has suddenly began to automatically mean "good" or "enjoyable" or "quality" and are now exempt from being a waste of money without demoing.

The reasons more people are butthurt about pirating indie games don't necessarily have to do with their quality. Generally, indies (a) are self-published, meaning that the money you pay actually goes to the people who made the game, (b) lack DRM, (c) are more likely than mainstream games to try something new/different (and in some cases, like Frayed Knights and Knights of the Chalice, they're more likely to appeal to some Codexers as a result), and (d) have relatively small fanbases, so if you are a fan of the sort of game an indie company made and want to see them produce more/higher-quality games of a similar sort, every sale counts. They also - and this is true in the case of both FK and KotC* - (e) tend to have demos more often than not, giving you the opportunity to try before you buy without downloading the whole game. Altogether, these properties - of which only c and d have anything to do with quality - shut down a lot of the justifications that some pirates use to download/torrent games, so it makes sense that more people would be more up in arms about pirating indies even if they don't believe that all piracy is wrong.

Generally, almost everyone from the "pirating/bashing indie brigade" is from developing/3rd world countries where people usually buy games when they reach a price of 5-10$. The whole point of the price decrease mechanism of the AAA games is to allow making money on the less fortunate people too. Indies don't have such a mechanism.

Indeed many games cost more than this:

 

[MisterStone]

I don't think I have anything new to add to this discussion, but I do sort of wish people would read the title of the thread again, which is also a proposal of sorts:

"Could we jst ban people who say they pirate new indie games?"

The only thing I suggested here is that if someone says something like, "Yeah bros, I'm totally pirating [new indie game]. It looks like shit so I probably won't pay for it after I've played through it twice to see if it's any good," then that person should be banned- which isn't even necessarily permanent.

I wish I had made the title "Could we jst ban people who say that they intend to pirate a particular new indie game that hey refer to by name?" but unfortunately it wouldn't fit, so the title of the thread is a bit more vague than I intended.

I never suggested that any discussion of piracy should result in banning, so the whole "slippery slope argument" of "Well one day they start banning people for talking about piracy so they can get a few more dev interviews, and within a couple of months they'll give Skyrim a glorious write-up in exchange for the right to blow Todd Howard before anyone else at the release party..." doesn't really make sense.

All I am saying is that if someone states their intent to pirate a particular new indie game (which they mention by name), or tells people that they have already done so, then they should be "punished" in the context of this forum. I use the word "new" because I find it hard to blame people for pirating an old game that is not easily available or active as a profitable IP, and "indie" because I felt that it would be harder to make the whole 'fuck da corporashuns' argument if we narrow this down a bit.

I'm sure it is possible a case might come up where we aren't sure if someone has broken that rule... but chances are anyone responsible for a situation like this is a shitposter and needs a bit of discouragement anyway. That's right, they're not a constitutional democracy here bitches.

Let's see, who else have I missed here...

@People who use retarded straw man arguments- :ignore:

@People who logged on with an alt to try and troll me - :ignore:

@People who mock me for actually posting in earnest about something related to the goals of this website- Of course! God forbid someone might try to articulate a serious point somewhere on teh Internet, much less here. Please post more vapid shit for us read.