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Skyrim - Bethesda, you should be very, very proud.

Captain Shrek

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Ed123 said:
Captain Shrek said:
I personally believe that SKYRIM has a great UNEXPLORED POTENTIAL. I suggest giving it over to Obsidian for repair.

Never underestimate Obsidian's ability to spectacularly fail at the simplest of tasks.

Sure. Just look at NWN2, Kotor2 and New vegas.
 

revealer

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torpid said:
revealer said:
torpid said:
Considering all the stuff they've lifted from other games that came out after Oblivion (mining/smithing/cooking from Gothic..
Fixed, newfag. :smug:

Totally missed the point there. Gothic II came out in 2002, Oblivion came out in 2006 and Risen came out in 2009. If Bethesda is going to use things from other games in Skyrim they'll take them from games that came out between TESIV and V.

I meant Gothic, not Gothic II.
FrenchFag
 

l3loodAngel

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Twinfalls said:
Todd Howard is a simpleton, a hack, a traitor to TES.
He is not. Morrowind's success on the Xbox and generally was an impressive achievement for him. His work doing the PR rounds for Skyrim with ease shows seriously capability as studio head. Yet he has not compromised content to achieve easy sales.

So now the consoletards are the benchmark of RPG quality? Seriuosly... 0/5
 

Elwro

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Is it still the case that a master-locked chest at the end of the given dungeon may contain 5 gp and slippers because the game thinks your level is too low?
 

Elwro

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I'm wondering why they don't fix this, then. You'd think overreliance on loot scaling would be an issue mentioned in reviews / disliked by gamers, but apparently it's not the case...
 

Crooked Bee

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Overall, the spirit of Daggerfall still shines in this game.
Every single dungeon I've visited in Skyrim has been distinct, unique. Daggerfall's insane, randomised serpentine mega-tunnels made no sense whatsoever as anything of practical use before they became ancient halls of undead. Skyrim's on the other hand, do.

Well said, OP. The genre is evolving. Those RPG "dungeons" of old were so impractical, and I'm a practical person living in a practical time. Bethesda have managed to bring the dungeons up to date and make them believable to a practical person like me. That alone deserves the highest praise. Dungeons in Skyrim even have practical shortcuts so I don't waste my precious time or, God forbid, get lost when turning around. I mean, if I'm in the middle of a corridor and I turn around, say, three times, how do I know which way is the entrance? Making a dungeon practical means I don't have to worry about getting lost anymore and can merrily proceed to the next, no less practical one, knowing that another practical shortcut awaits me there. Skyrim's dungeons are everything Daggerfall's dungeons wanted to be if not the technological limitations of the time that forced the designers to make dungeons needlessly complex to compensate for the lack of unique immersive atmosphere and breathtaking looks. Good thing Bethesda is moving on with the times.

:thumbsup:
 
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Crooked Bee said:
Overall, the spirit of Daggerfall still shines in this game.
Every single dungeon I've visited in Skyrim has been distinct, unique. Daggerfall's insane, randomised serpentine mega-tunnels made no sense whatsoever as anything of practical use before they became ancient halls of undead. Skyrim's on the other hand, do.

Well said, OP. The genre is evolving. Those RPG "dungeons" of old were so impractical, and I'm a practical person living in a practical time. Bethesda have managed to bring the dungeons up to date and make them believable to a practical person like me. That alone deserves the highest praise. Dungeons in Skyrim even have practical shortcuts so I don't waste my precious time or, God forbid, get lost when turning around. I mean, if I'm in the middle of a corridor and I turn around, say, three times, how do I know which way is the entrance? Making a dungeon practical means I don't have to worry about getting lost anymore and can merrily proceed to the next, no less practical one, knowing that another practical shortcut awaits me there. Skyrim's dungeons are everything Daggerfall's dungeons wanted to be if not the technological limitations of the time that forced the designers to make dungeons needlessly complex to compensate for the lack of unique immersive atmosphere and breathtaking looks. Good thing Bethesda is moving on with the times.

:thumbsup:

If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.
 
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Andyman Messiah said:
This is the amazingest Skyrim thread.

It's just a representation of the Codex dichotomy of the apologists/retarded (as mentioned) gamers who have forgiving/optimistic approach to current-gen RPGs and those who don't accept mediocrity which is in itself a dealbreaker and trying to make the former appear naive/clueless. The world moves on!
 

piydek

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I agree with pretty much everything Twinfalls has said. I've played only about 5 hours so far and it's ridiculous how much superior this thing is to Oblivion, which was unplayable for me. It's almost as if this was the next real TES game after Morrowind.

For me, quests in this game are way better than in Oblivion, they keep me interested. World design is FAR superior to Oblivion. Art direction is amazing and i think Skyrim has really impressive graphics. Sure, technically it's nothing spectacular at all, but art is just RIGHT. The game nails down the atmosphere as well. I love being in this world, just as i loved being in Morrowind. As much as places and NPCs felt fake in Oblivion, here it's all much better. They even pulled off the casual banter between NPCs right this time, it doesn't seem forced, mechanical and glitchy as it did in Oblivion. Even writing so far is OK.

I'm playing on PC but since it was designed for consoles interface and controls-wise, I'm playing on xbox360 gamepad 3rd person point of view and it just works for me this way.

Some people say this game steals a lot from other games. Maybe it does, but it just WORKS. Is Firefox a bad browser because it stole a shitton ideas and features from Opera? Of course not. I recommend trying to play Skyrim. Really impressed with the amount of incline over Oblivion and that they managed to put out this game in amidst of crap that comes out today in mainstream gaming. I'm really glad this thing sells well. I never thought i'd say this, but cheers Bethesda, well done.
happy%20to%20have%20a%20beer.gif
 

Crooked Bee

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halflingbarbarian said:
If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.

What? Lol.
 

FatCat

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Ed123 said:
Every single dungeon I've visited in Skyrim has been distinct, unique.

:lol:

Give examples of similar dungeons ? please ? From what i have seen all of them are unique , there maybe are some short portions that resemble other dungeons , but on the bigger picture all are unique enough to feel fresh.

Overall if Skyrim will be modded heavily it has a potential to be on par with Morrowind at least for me.
 
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Crooked Bee said:
halflingbarbarian said:
If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.

What? Lol.

Sarcastic criticism -> Unravel sarcasm -> Criticism appears to be founded on irrelevant detail -> Provide more relevant comparison on relatively same context as sarcastic criticism -> Conclusion -> Read?
 

piydek

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FatCat said:
Overall if Skyrim will be modded heavily it has a potential to be on par with Morrowind at least for me.

Agree. Pure "vanilla" Skyrim is good enough for me. Looking forward to the mods.

It's not as bad as Oblivion scaling-wise, but it'd also profit a lot from something like OOO. Oblivion had problems that absolutely no mods could do anything about: the incredibly crappy MQ, voice-acting, shit geography-design, crap dialogues and dull dull dull world/atmosphere. Skyrim has none of those problems. It's a good platform for modding.
 

Black Cat

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Crooked Bee said:
What? Lol.

I believe he's basicaly saying both have their strenghts, and the perfect TES dungeon would be a mixture between Daggerfall's awesome emergent skill based gameplay and Skyrim's cool mood and atmosphere, and detailed pretty graphics. He's kind of right.

Though I would prefer it if we did just stop this separation between the open world and the dungeons, and just made the open world a huge dungeon and be done with it. Ultima Underworld is were it's at. Chances of something like that happening in the current industry are null, though.

I would kind of hope KKKodex would have more than a few people willing to make awesome and complex dungeons once the tools are released, but this place's mostly about lazy fucks bitching around so I'm not holding my breath.
 
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revealer said:
torpid said:
revealer said:
torpid said:
Considering all the stuff they've lifted from other games that came out after Oblivion (mining/smithing/cooking from Gothic..
Fixed, newfag. :smug:

Totally missed the point there. Gothic II came out in 2002, Oblivion came out in 2006 and Risen came out in 2009. If Bethesda is going to use things from other games in Skyrim they'll take them from games that came out between TESIV and V.

I meant Gothic, not Gothic II.
FrenchFag

Still missing the point :lol:
 

Admiral jimbob

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I'm really tempted to dive into Skyrim modding once the tools become available, but being in the latter half of uni, it's all a question of time. I modded Morrowind a fair bit and I'd love to get back into the scene now that I've learned my classic RPGs and hopefully picked up some design ideas by osmosis.
 

Crooked Bee

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halflingbarbarian said:
Crooked Bee said:
halflingbarbarian said:
If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.

What? Lol.

Sarcastic criticism -> Unravel sarcasm -> Criticism appears to be founded on irrelevant detail -> Provide more relevant comparison on relatively same context as sarcastic criticism -> Conclusion -> Read?

Sorry, but I didn't even use the "contrast" you assumed I used. Your post had nothing to do with mine.
 

.Sigurd

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Ed123 said:
Every single dungeon I've visited in Skyrim has been distinct, unique.

:lol:
I think he meant the level design, not the atmosphere. Unlike Oblivion, where every dungeon is a series of corridors connecting ctrl+c ctrl+v chambers, in Skyrim every dungeon was design individually.
 
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Crooked Bee said:
halflingbarbarian said:
Crooked Bee said:
halflingbarbarian said:
If you are just dissing Twinfalls' comparison to Daggerfall, your use of contrast is really weird. So there is a shortcut back to the start of dungeons in Skyrim. That should be insignificant as a worry of practicality compared to linearity in dungeons. But with linearity, the shortcut to the entrance bit is a non-issue, since the design is already impractical in linearity. And if not getting a shortcut back to the entrance of a linear dungeon rewards you intellectually, there is definitely some problem with you. Don't pick on non-issues and make it a contention, and your argument might stand.

The relevant difference between Daggerfall and Skyrim dungeons on the level of practicality is that although both are 'impractical' - Daggerfall ones are architecturally/practically unsound, Skyrim ones are linear and non-realistic as a place of dwelling/worship/burial/etc - Skyrim dungeon design does make an effort to include sleeping areas for the inhabitants, coffins where undead spring from, webbed nests/cocoons/egg sacs filled caves where associated creatures live, dining areas, forges/anvils/alchemy tables/self-sufficiency placeables according to type of inhabitants, guardian rooms in crypts, moats in some makeshift underground forts, and so on. It is a limit of the Daggerfall engine, because Daggerfall was made on the premise of an open world roguelike, hence the complexity of generated dungeons don't make sense.

So, Skyrim dungeons are more 'practical'. More intellectually rewarding/demeaning between the two? I don't know. But both have their strengths.

What? Lol.

Sarcastic criticism -> Unravel sarcasm -> Criticism appears to be founded on irrelevant detail -> Provide more relevant comparison on relatively same context as sarcastic criticism -> Conclusion -> Read?

Sorry, but I didn't even use the "contrast" you assumed I used. Your post had nothing to do with mine.

Sorry, you might not have intended it but your use of contrast was obvious in comparing the simplicity of Skyrim dungeons to the complexity of Daggerfall dungeons. Implicit, but it's there. Read? Harder. Btw I won't reply to any more discussion on semantics, unless it has something of value to the main discussion of the thread.

Edit: Or alternatively, if you want to make your original post clearer and therefore state the point you are trying to state, please do so. If it's just a trolly barb at Twinfalls' comment and you don't care, oh well.
 

Luzur

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He is not. Morrowind's success on the Xbox and generally was an impressive achievement for him. His work doing the PR rounds for Skyrim with ease shows seriously capability as studio head. Yet he has not compromised content to achieve easy sales.

not sure if we should really thank him for getting TES on consoles..
 

Gord

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Another thing to praise Bethesda for:

They keep true to their traditions!
The latest patch (that did nothing more than introduce Steam DRM to the TESV.exe, allegedly) has fucked up the game big time for a lot of people, there are several topics at the official forums of people complaining about graphical glitches, CTDs or bad performance after the "patch" (not forgetting that the original LAA tool won't work anymore).
 

Crooked Bee

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halflingbarbarian said:
Sorry, you might not have intended it but your use of contrast was obvious in comparing the simplicity of Skyrim dungeons to the complexity of Daggerfall dungeons. Implicit, but it's there. Read? Harder. Btw I won't reply to any more discussion on semantics, unless it has something of value to the main discussion of the thread.

:lol: Lol, you're stupid.
 

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