Inventory question

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Well that doesn't sound so bad. Are the effects on your stats clearly laid out before you say yes to adding the item to your inventory (almost like in some games when you are about to equip something you get a list of your current stats and arrows pointing to what they will become if the selected item is equiped)?

Also, glad to hear I'm not alone in feeling there is not just one MOST-CRPG system to create a CRPG with. As long as the item system is not unwieldy (overly complex or the item effects are displayed via information dump) I'll shut up and just let it go (unless you know, I'm dying and have no clue how to ballance myself so that I have enough good items to survive while not nerfing my stats down to even more helpless levels).

 

[deus101]

Having a slot based inventory is just as much a gameplay limitation as it is an interface solution.

Of course. If all items are one slot big then there's no Tetris involved, but you get silly situations where one character can carry 12 swords while another can only carry 12 rings, even though they have the same (high) strength. And if items are of varying shapes of slots (Diablo), you get more balance but with the added issue of having to shuffle things around to make room for new items. And if you have auto-sorting to solve this problem for you, you have to break your own spacial mapping of items, which is the main advantage of a grid inventory over a list inventory.

Ofcourse its a bit silly that you can carry 12 swords but not 13 rings, but does it matter?

I'm one to see the value in having realistic game mechanics, but in this case(with rings and swords)...its more of a "value weight", then a space/mass thing.

 

[sea]

I hate list based inventories, Dragons's age and Mass Effects system with a list with 500 slots to fill is the worst of the lot.

I actually don't mind lists in some games. They're not ideal, but they work in a game like Skyrim where you have 500,000 items at any given time. More sorting options and it would be totally fine with me. Dragon Age gets it right because the number of items is reasonably limited and you have enough inventory categories so that you'll almost never have to scroll. The big issue with lists is that they're largely driven by console game conventions, like large font sizes and lots of scrolling due to limited screen space. You might say that icons on a grid are better, but depending on other factors (icon size and clarity, for instance, or number of distinct items), a list can actually be superior because at least there you have text to refer to at all times, rather than as a tooltip.

 

[janjetina]

You might say that icons on a grid are better, but depending on other factors (icon size and clarity, for instance, or number of distinct items), a list can actually be superior because at least there you have text to refer to at all times, rather than as a tooltip.

So, right-clicking on an icon in a grid slot and choosing text description from a drop-down menu, or right-clicking to directly open text description, like it was done in Baldur's gate is too difficult to implement and use? That is why we cannot have nice things.

 

[Infinitron]

Of course, the kids nowadays only know of the straw that breaks camel's back mechanic thanks to TES.

Actually, I'm fairly sure you get slower in Bethesda games if you're weighed down, though I'm not sure if it's only the armor (light, medium, heavy) or the total weight of your inventory. Never bothered to investigate for some reason.

 

[janjetina]

Of course, the kids nowadays only know of the straw that breaks camel's back mechanic thanks to TES.

Actually, I'm fairly sure you get slower in Bethesda games if you're weighed down, though I'm not sure if it's only the armor (light, medium, heavy) or the total weight of your inventory. Never bothered to investigate for some reason.

It's only armor in New Vegas. I seem to remember that encumbrance had an effect on movement in JA 2 1.13, but I'm not sure.

 

[deus101]

I hate list based inventories, Dragons's age and Mass Effects system with a list with 500 slots to fill is the worst of the lot.

I actually don't mind lists in some games. They're not ideal, but they work in a game like Skyrim where you have 500,000 items at any given time. More sorting options and it would be totally fine with me. Dragon Age gets it right because the number of items is reasonably limited and you have enough inventory categories so that you'll almost never have to scroll. The big issue with lists is that they're largely driven by console game conventions, like large font sizes and lots of scrolling due to limited screen space. You might say that icons on a grid are better, but depending on other factors (icon size and clarity, for instance, or number of distinct items), a list can actually be superior because at least there you have text to refer to at all times, rather than as a tooltip.

Dragons age item "limit" is FAR from reasonable, Betsheda games attleast has the weight constraint, and since its a single char setup its reasonable for them to not have volume constraints.

Dragon age is a great example on how acceptability implementation actually is inconvenient and cumbersome.
200(to 500 with upgrades) is NOT giving ANY limitations, and when you reached the limit you have a MUCH bigger chore to sort.
And NO the category tabs did NOT help.

Really...a centralized party inventory is the most ANNOYING shit I've found in CRPG's.

 

[Infinitron]

I felt that the catagories helped decently in DA:O in managing the inventory, but were broken in DA2, where 90% of your items were vendor trash rings and amulets with generic names ( ).

 

[mondblut]

Actually, I'm fairly sure you get slower in Bethesda games if you're weighed down, though I'm not sure if it's only the armor (light, medium, heavy) or the total weight of your inventory. Never bothered to investigate for some reason.

In FO3, the moment you're overweight, you start moving very slowly, can't run and can't fast travel. In Morrowind, it's either the same, or you can't walk at all, I don't remember now.

As long as you're one gram below being overweight, you are as agile as when your pockets are empty.

(as far as armor effect on mobility, I don't know nor couldn't be bothered to check, the carried weight is the issue ITT).

 

[Infinitron]

In FO3, the moment you're overweight, you start moving very slowly, can't run and can't fast travel. In Morrowind, it's either the same, or you can't walk at all, I don't remember now.

As long as you're one gram below being overweight, you are as agile as when your pockets are empty.

(as far as armor effect on mobility, I don't know nor couldn't be bothered to check, the carried weight is the issue ITT).

Yes, there's that also, but not just that.

 

[Gerrard]

In Morrowind there was a gradual decrease in your speed and increase in fatigue use as you got nearer the weight limit.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

[bold]Deus101 wrote:[/bold]

Really...a centralized party inventory is the most ANNOYING shit I've found in CRPG's.

Could we compromise? I find it a usability drawback if I can't see all the items I currently have in my party at the same time. Perhaps the menu can be divided into character columns, so I don't have to check every single character's info sheets to see whether I still have some item I looted a few hours earlier. I am finding this a bit tedious in PST and BG1.

 

[deus101]

[bold]Deus101 wrote:[/bold]

Really...a centralized party inventory is the most ANNOYING shit I've found in CRPG's.

Could we compromise? I find it a usability drawback if I can't see all the items I currently have in my party at the same time. Perhaps the menu can be divided into character columns, so I don't have to check every single character's info sheets to see whether I still have some item I looted a few hours earlier. I am finding this a bit tedious in PST and BG1.

Thing is...YOU can't see everything at the same time, *scroll scroll scroll scroll*.

In the IE games, all you have to do is select the character portraits(or use the number keys), do a quick scan, then go to the next and scan to see what you look for.

But, in most cases, you automatically have indexed X item to Y character by subconscious associations.

That makes lookup and retrieval faster.

In DA you almost ALLWAYS have to spend some annoying seconds to scroll through to what you need.



Altough having an extra inventory menu that...includes every inventory to all the char isnt an bad idea, if you remove the paperdolls (and considering how many char game juggles at once offcourse) it could provide great oversight over all the booty.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Well at the moment my brain works a bit different to yours in as much as I don't mind scrolling dependent on that I am not scrolling a large amount of text (in this case it's only a list that I am looking through for a certain name) and that it is not redonkulously large and unsortable as I heard Mass Effect was.

So, in summary, you don't mind switching windows that much whereas I am kind of fond of my mouse's scroll wheel (I live by it to read on this site and the few others I follow).

Glad you understand my peculiarity.

 

[deus101]

Well then, enjoy your carpal tunnel.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Can getting carpal tunnel happen so easily? My former boss has it really bad from playing guitar for years.

I would be fine with only being able to click on and drag the scroll bar like some of the IE games. Your suggestion of using the number keys makes sense, but it's like keeping track of what I am reading on several browser tabs. I'm only wanting to look at items, and I shouldn't have to do that in multiple screens that also do double duty with a lot of the character info. Ah, well, if only there was a game with a master item display for all party members, but there's not. And I'm complaining because why? Oh, yeah...

 

[sea]

In the IE games, all you have to do is select the character portraits(or use the number keys), do a quick scan, then go to the next and scan to see what you look for.

But, in most cases, you automatically have indexed X item to Y character by subconscious associations.

That makes lookup and retrieval faster.

In DA you almost ALLWAYS have to spend some annoying seconds to scroll through to what you need.

Baldur's Gate: select party member, open inventory. Two clicks.

Dragon Age: open inventory, select filter. Two clicks.

wat

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

You ever played 7.62: High Calibre?
EXCELLENT inventory system.
Then again, it's not a fantasy RPG.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Sea, everyone, I really don't care about a few seconds more of speed and TBH I don't care about scrolling so long as the scroll bar doesn't become like around this [lllllllllllllllllllllllll] tiny. My preference is in the aesthetic, which would make inventory management more comfortable for me.

Is there a crpg with an item menu made of vertical colums side by side with a scrolling header (always in view) containing the party members' names and sorting options. In this way I can take stock of all my items on the same screen while still keeping the tactical element of individual inventories.

Thanks everyone.

PS: The inventory on that High Calibur game did look intuitive, but I'm not a fan of real-world-style gun games. Still, I appreciate learning about new games.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Just answered the question about inventories, didn't get you meant strict RPGs.
And I'm really sure that style would be easily convertible to RPGs that would renounce to space inventories.

Otherwise, I again have to praise Arcanum, which by its style didn't allow to carry a lot of light but large objects.

 

[Neeshka]

Items and inventory management should be there mainly to let you as the player have a variety of items appropriate to a few situations; but constrained by inventory capacity.

Games where inventory systems worked well.
BG1/2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Neverwinter Nights, Witcher 2.
To a lesser extent Diablo 1/2

Games where it sucked massive dick:
Skyrim, Dragon age

In general inventory seems to be a very overused constraint and an excuse for putting in gigantic amounts of lootable rubbish in games (Bethesda is very guilty of this mechanic).

Ideally things that can be lootable should not be "vendor trash". If the objective is gold income; enemies/chests should just DROP GOLD. Travelling to and fro to sell off heaps of vendor trash over and over again is both annoying and lazy game design to add filler time to a game.
Additionally inventory space should never be a constant limiting factor (like it is in skyrim). Inventory should be mostly generous so there is a long interval between vendor trash sell trips; if you absolutely have to put in this mechanic.

Deus Ex hr does this extremely well in that you really have to choose carefully the type of weapons you want to carry. There is almost no junk but the C&C from inventory management is quite clear.

Lists are almost universally bad; unless there is good grouping and sorting (witcher 2); limiting junk items is also very important.

 

[Roguey]

Neeshka, what are you thinking saying Witcher 2 has a better inventory than Dragon Age? DA lets you see an additional four items, all the item icons are displayed at all times and not just on the currently selected item, it uses pop-up windows instead of a space-consuming box that sometimes has to scroll text because it's so small, and it's easy to read and not on some off-white-on-yellow mess.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Items and inventory management should be there mainly to let you as the player have a variety of items appropriate to a few situations; but constrained by inventory capacity.

Games where inventory systems worked well.
BG1/2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Neverwinter Nights, Witcher 2.
To a lesser extent Diablo 1/2

Games where it sucked massive dick:
Skyrim, Dragon age

In general inventory seems to be a very overused constraint and an excuse for putting in gigantic amounts of lootable rubbish in games (Bethesda is very guilty of this mechanic).

Ideally things that can be lootable should not be "vendor trash". If the objective is gold income; enemies/chests should just DROP GOLD. Travelling to and fro to sell off heaps of vendor trash over and over again is both annoying and lazy game design to add filler time to a game.
Additionally inventory space should never be a constant limiting factor (like it is in skyrim). Inventory should be mostly generous so there is a long interval between vendor trash sell trips; if you absolutely have to put in this mechanic.

No.

 

[Neeshka]

Neeshka, what are you thinking saying Witcher 2 has a better inventory than Dragon Age? DA lets you see an additional four items, all the item icons are displayed at all times and not just on the currently selected item, it uses pop-up windows instead of a space-consuming box that sometimes has to scroll text because it's so small, and it's easy to read and not on some off-white-on-yellow mess.

Yea what was I thinking ? I meant skyrim. The Dragon age inventory system is alright and better than skyrim.

Witcher 2 is consolized just like skyrim; but the sorting is better; there are less junk items and having to constantly loot and run back and forth selling shit is much less of an issue.

 

[deus101]

In the IE games, all you have to do is select the character portraits(or use the number keys), do a quick scan, then go to the next and scan to see what you look for.

But, in most cases, you automatically have indexed X item to Y character by subconscious associations.

That makes lookup and retrieval faster.

In DA you almost ALLWAYS have to spend some annoying seconds to scroll through to what you need.

Baldur's Gate: select party member, open inventory. Two clicks.

Dragon Age: open inventory, select filter. Two clicks.

wat

You forgot the scrolling part.


...and the fact that the inventory can be opened with one right click.