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Best stories in RPG - Player's choice

Gragt

Arcane
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Dans Ton Cul
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
Not really, and I kinda missed the moment where there was a point to counter for me. I'm just saying that this thread is going nowhere, as is usual for this kind. Like, right now it appears that a story is only considered as a bare-bone synopsis, often to the absurd — it can be a fun exercise, mind you, and there is even a book about that.
 

Skittles

He ruins the fun.
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
983
Ooh, ooh, you mean me! The guy who asked what we're talking about when we're talking about story, because it's being used wishy-washily!

I asked the OED, but he said "plot." Or "
c. Succession of incidents, ‘plot’ (of a novel, poem, or drama).


I asked the Codex, but he said "herpaderp."

And then you showed up and contributed nothing!

EDIT: 'Scuse me, I figure I ought to add 'a' and 'b' if I'm going to be a jackass:

a. A narrative of real or, more usually, fictitious events, designed for the entertainment of the hearer or reader; a series of traditional or imaginary incidents forming the matter of such a narrative; a tale.

b. In generalized sense: Traditional, poetic, or romantic legend or history.

I'm discounting a., because we're talking about a game, not a yarn. And b. is pretty much out of the question, yeah?

Feel free to say something. Or just to read the thread, Gragt.
 

Monk

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
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Wat
Yes, the stories for the Mass Effect series and the first Dragon Age are fine.
 

Stasgard

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Australia
If you were referring to me, I apologize, it seemed you were just arguing for the sake of argument. I didn't feel like anyone else was being wishy-washy about the use of the word story, and then you begin describing why games had bad stories because their plots were weak. If you're just trying to clarify a position I apologize.
 

Skittles

He ruins the fun.
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
983
Eh, sorry, I'm just :roll: that Serious_Business was the only person who read what I wrote--I'm just whining and you happened to be there with an inopportune remark. To clarify what I'm trying to say:

People cite things like 'good characters' or, paraphrasing, good lore, on some of the lists. Some people put games on their lists that I think are there probably for good C&C, but I'd have to be convinced that's story. And already people are saying things like "no that story is shit, take it off your list" without giving a reason. That's why I bothered asking "what do you mean by story?" and tried pointing out that from a strict definition, stripped of the other good stuff, there were some games that had mediocre stories but were great in other regards. Disagreeing without knowing why there's disagreement is kind of a waste, innit?
 

Stasgard

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Australia
It is, yes. But I would argue that stripped of the characters, setting, theme and such that people are listing as reasons they like it you are only getting a recount of events, which is just plot, not a story. That was where my confusion stemmed from in your post, as I said above it seemed like you were saying: "See, just describe the events and the game's story is shit!", which I've always been told/read is just the plot itself. And C&C in terms of discussing video game stories is difficult because a non-linear story can still be a good story. Anyways, I understand your position now, and I apologize again for being a douche and not clarifying further in the first place.

1. KOTOR 2 (Fuck off, you Avellone-haters)
2. MotB

:love:
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Story for all intents and purposes, can simply be the written part of the narrative. Like the plot, the characters and the dialogue etc. Video games are special in the sense that they allow you to create a limited (very very limited narrative for Bioware) narrative through the game-play. Thus although gameplay is integrated with story in some way, for the need of discussion ot can be (Tragically) isolated.
 

Nomask Alt

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
920
If people here take story to mean something more than plot, then this will be yet another "my favorite RPGs" thread. And story does mean plot, nothing more. That's not to say that a plot can, or should, be abstracted to the level that Skittles has done.
 

Forgotten Friend

Educated
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Jan 20, 2012
Messages
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Slain by a mudcrab
Serious Business said:
That would make some sense if it weren't him who started the deconstruction. Let's start to talk about what a story is bros. Maybe if people have some doubt on this front they should just not post in a thread about stories in games?

Ooh, ooh, you mean me! The guy who asked what we're talking about when we're talking about story, because it's being used wishy-washily!

I asked the OED, but he said "plot." Or "
c. Succession of incidents, ‘plot’ (of a novel, poem, or drama).


I asked the Codex, but he said "herpaderp."

And then you showed up and contributed nothing!

EDIT: 'Scuse me, I figure I ought to add 'a' and 'b' if I'm going to be a jackass:


a. A narrative of real or, more usually, fictitious events, designed for the entertainment of the hearer or reader; a series of traditional or imaginary incidents forming the matter of such a narrative; a tale.


b. In generalized sense: Traditional, poetic, or romantic legend or history.

I'm discounting a., because we're talking about a game, not a yarn. And b. is pretty much out of the question, yeah?

Feel free to say something. Or just to read the thread, Gragt.

Aspies gonna aspie. That's why you think morrowind had a story, because you think it is a series of plot points on a timeline. But there's different ways to tell a story and much more important is the conveyance of themes, and how they are conveyed. That's why most people think of morrowind as devoid of story because you aren't really participating in most of the things you can piece together but doing tangential bullshit it's hard to care about for its own sake. Walk around, read some books, hey the endgame cutscene is here. I guess I won, then?

:hmmm:

My first post was all the hint you should have needed, it's as plain as the nose on your face. An example of plot heavy story is daytime soaps. Most tv shows have a formula for the plot but are usually still a cut above soaps, you do the maths.

TLDR; Go to literature 101 and have this discussion there.
 

Skittles

He ruins the fun.
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
983
@NomaskAlt: Yeah, that's what I'm resisting. I went extreme to prove a point, but noone's interested in talking about story on its own merits.

In other news:

Aspies gonna aspie. That's why you think morrowind had a story, because you think it is a series of plot points on a timeline. But there's different ways to tell a story and much more important is the conveyance of themes, and how they are conveyed. That's why most people think of morrowind as devoid of story because you aren't really participating in most of the things you can piece together but doing tangential bullshit it's hard to care about for its own sake. Walk around, read some books, hey the endgame cutscene is here. I guess I won, then?

My first post was all the hint you should have needed, it's as plain as the nose on your face. An example of plot heavy story is daytime soaps. Most tv shows have a formula for the plot but are usually still a cut above soaps, you do the maths.

TLDR; Go to literature 101 and have this discussion there.

But I agree on the Planetscrape Torment and the Do Sex and the Bloodlines, all games where the story alone can carry it. I'll put down the original vampire game and the ultima 4-7 line as well.

All the other RPGs either were not very story intensive even if story was good, or story sucked.

But I think story is about 5% of what's needed for a good game unless it's just so sublime you can't skip it, and if the story is shit but not too intrusive and gameplay is good I don't give a shit.

Lol.

No, seriously, you are an aggressively stupid person and I worry about you with your trying-too-hard and dumb-as-bricks posting style.
 

Phelot

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
17,908
I wish they'd make a Fast and Furious RPG goes you know that story would be hella good!
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
Daggerfall, Darklands and Jagged Alliance 2 have best stories.

"The story is what you decide to make it". Unless you're a closet tranny.
 

tred

Augur
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
241
1. PST
2. IWD 2 (no "player choice" but to me the story was great and i had a lot of fun with it)
3. Arcanum
4. Betrayal at Krondor
5. Unreal World (if "the story is what you decide to make it")
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Might as well ask for a list of favourite RPGs, since story is such a big part of what makes a good RPG.

1. Fallout: New Vegas

Well developed factions, each with positives and negatives, who you side with is completely up to you. Mr. House is just fucking awesome but Caesar is a bit of a bro too.

2. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Just something completely different. Villain who you can actually sympathise with, since everyone turned against him and now he just wants to do his own thing (but he's gone insane too). Everyone's motivations are complex, the Empire, the Temple, the Great Houses, they all want something different than just TAKE OVER TEH WORLD!!!111

4. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II

First original thing I'd seen in the Star Wars universe that didn't completely suck. Mr. Chris Avellone took the Force, up to now a boring plot device, and had a few people say "Fuck you!" to it. And the game really is about how people choose to react to the Force. Some depend on it completely, like Nihilus and Sion. Others turn away from it, like the Exile and Kreia. Bioware have not and probably will never think about writing something this different.

5. The Witcher 2

I loved how everything came to a head in the final chapter without a BIG BOSS FIGHT!!!11. Yeah, there's a dragon, but it doesn't take up much time in what is otherwise a section heavy on politics. Yeah, politics in an RPG, who'd have thought it?

6. The Witcher

Are you a Witcher or are a revolutionary? Like its sequel, the politics involved in the main character's decisions and how they affect the story are the best thing about the game.

7. Neverwinter Nights 2 / Mask of the Betrayer

The OC gets a lot of unfair flak here but it does do some interesting things with the standard formula. The character of Ammon Jerro, and the Trial scene, are two highlights I'd pick. But I agree there isn't much to see until you get to Mask of the Betrayer. What Obsidian did to the Star Wars universe in KOTOR2, they do to D&D in MotB. They try a new approach, you can eat a god, that beats even sucking the life out of the Jedi Council. And you get possessed by something ancient and powerful. Defying convention, this curse is a real pain in the ass. No wonder the casual gamers hated it.

8. Vampire: Bloodlines

I fully appreciated the story only after several playthroughs. When you see the game from all sides you really do understand how your character is a pawn that everyone else is trying to manipulate. Unlike most other games, you aren't the chosen one, there's nothing special about you at all. You're just in the wrong (or right) place at the wrong (or right) time. Because you have no importance, you're made the grunt, the heavy-lifter, in everyone elses power struggles.

9. Planescape Torment

Hated everything else about the game, but the story and the writing really is great and worthy of a mention in anyone's top 10. Chris Avellone is the master.

10. Jade Empire

It isn't very deep but it is interesting how Bioware managed to create a new world that was influenced by Asian history and mythology, but otherwise wholly original. Then they went back to generic fantasy and sci-fi. A shame, because I think they got a winner here. Made a nice change from Western medieval fare.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
I played it last month after getting it for $2.50 off of Steam and for the life of me I can't remember anything about the story other than Jack of Blades was the bad guy.
 

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