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Best stories in RPG - Player's choice

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Can you tell me WHY Mr. Horse?

:dance:

1. No real choices and/or consequences!
Speaks for itself. The Witcher is a shallow game with the illusion of importance. An extremely linear choose your own adventure where you are the hero who simply cannot fail no matter the path you choose. I have here four examples of all four kinds of c&c's you will encounter in The Witcher:

Example 1: aka "choose which girl to fuck" You can choose between giving Alvin to witch chick or nurse chick and all it results in is sex with the lady you chose and a stern talking-to from the lady you didn't choose.
Example 2: aka "completely useless" The very first choice you get, do you want to fight the monster or do you want to go inside the castle (and fight a mage)? Only difference is the rewards and you have to go inside the castle afterwards anyway.
Example 3: aka "if you think about it it's actually completely useless" Early in the game you can decide a witch's fate. If you save her, she'll come back later in the game. If you don't, she won't and in her place will instead be generic witch with the same exact role.
Example 4: aka "oh shit my cat's looking at me I gotta feed it be right back" You can choose to help the Templars, the elves or stay "neutral", as it's called. Neutral as in helping out whomever you want at first but then back off when you trigger the "Geralt starts getting uncomfortable" plot point. These are choices, yes, but it does not matter as there are no real consequences other than what Geralt is going to say in the cutscenes and what your final armor is going to look like and who you have to bother in order to craft it.

I think the biggest trick Poland ever pulled was convincing the Codex that their games had choices and consequences. I mean how the fuck did that happen? Can someone please answer this? Bonus points if the answer is a quote from The Usual Suspects.

2. Simple revenge plot made up almost entirely by fetch quests!
A character created specifically for the game so he can die is murdered and a MacGuffin nobody seems to know what it does or cares about at all (until the very last minutes) is stolen. I can't blame Geralt or the game for not being particularly motivated to do anything because more than half the main quest is about doing things that are completely unrelated to Geralt's supposed mission. When Geralt suddenly decided that it was time to have a boys night out with his friends the retard dwarf and the fucking bard so he could get fucking relationship advice (!) was when I decided I had to cut BioWare some slack, I'm not joking, and I had already suffered through that fucking wussy party at elf chick's place. But to be fair, not all of the quests are fetch quests. Some of them involve going to a place and killing a dude/monster for a dude. Oh no, Geralt is in prison. Kill this monster to get out.

3. The villains are forgettable.
Forgettable is the wrong word so I take that back. I'm sorry. Let me try it again.

3. The villains are lulzy and doesn't matter.
There are, what, three villains total? And the main one is introduced very late, almost the same time when you enter a dream world to kill him. I'm sorry, CD Projekt, but why should I care about this guy that I haven't seen more than five minutes of total? Don't get me wrong, I knew immediately when I saw him he was evil but come on.

Geralt hires a private detective to find out more about one of the villains and at one point his medallion starts to vibrate whenever he enters the room, signalling to everyone BUT GERALT that the villain is obviously now impersonating the detective. Here's another example of The Witcher's fantastic lack of c&c: why does the player have to wait until he or she has reached a point in the quest where Geralt can bring up his suspicions?

4. More derpy romances than in a BioWare game.
Say what you will, but in The Witcher you're wooing ladies at all times. And don't give me that shit about "they're optional" because fuck you by the same amount of ignoring them necessary so is Tali and that creepy elf with the disproportionate everything in Dragon Age 2. Not to mention that the Boris Vallejo art makes it into a retarded pokemon game. About the only good thing I can say in The Witcher's favor is that the fans aren't analyzing witch chick's shit or something. I FUCKING HOPE.

5. Poorly written.
Granted some (but definitely not all) of the problems with The Witcher's writing SEEMS TO stem from an extremely poorly made translation but there's nothing that can be done about that. There are also a lot parts that serve absolutely no point in the game other than for padding and should have been cut from the game completely, like 2 thirds of the fourth act.

6. The rest.
Speaks for itself and is IMO.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Sounds quite justified. A round of applause.

Now what about the Witcher 2? IS that better than the first game?
 

Skittles

He ruins the fun.
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
983
I think the biggest trick Poland ever pulled was convincing the Codex that their games had choices and consequences. I mean how the fuck did that happen? Can someone please answer this? Bonus points if the answer is a quote from The Usual Suspects.

Fenster: Man, I had a finger up my asshole tonight.
Hockney: Is it Friday already?
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
WHAT???

YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED ALPHA the Bro-tocol?
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
WHAT???

YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED ALPHA the Bro-tocol?
Of course I have, but not forty-five times. I don't have any excuses, I've just been really busy.

edit: Then again, I hadn't even gotten out of act 1 in Witcher 1 when I wrote the review and that worked out alright. :smug:
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Gothic series (1, 2 and 3)

I was going to mention Gothic 1 but... honestly... the story got pretty derpy towards the end. I think Gothic 1 has one of the best 'settings/atmospheres/background story' but I don't think I can say it has one of the the best narrative story. Then again, I guess listing it as a series is just the same way of saying that -- the overarching storyline/universe was quite good.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
For some reason I always feel bad when I manage to convince people to change their opinion of a game.

Anyway, here are my top 5 best RPG stories:

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Mask of the Betrayer
3. Anachronox
4. Arcanum
5. Fallout (IMO the only game that succeeded at a MacGuffin plot)
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,800
Has worse animation than a Bethesda game.
This is the only thing that puzzles me, I thought the Witcher had great animation. Maybe not in cutscenes, but the combat and walking/running was fine, except for that annoying inherited Bioware-engine shuffle that happened when you tried to execute someone too close/far away.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,024
Location
Platypus Planet
Gothic series (1, 2 and 3)

I was going to mention Gothic 1 but... honestly... the story got pretty derpy towards the end. I think Gothic 1 has one of the best 'settings/atmospheres/background story' but I don't think I can say it has one of the the best narrative story. Then again, I guess listing it as a series is just the same way of saying that -- the overarching storyline/universe was quite good.

What do you mean by derpy? The only derp I saw were the bad english translations. Otherwise it was pretty decent. However, the high point was the beginning when you were just learning about the camps, the economy and how you tried to crawl your way up to get something decent. That's when the story was the most interesting.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

Scholar
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
502
This thread got me thinking about how good a story some of the games I picked actually are. I Googled: "Does Final Fantasy 6 have a good story?" I found this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431521

The post by worldrevolution I have just read brings the narrative significance of FF6 home for me:

"Because it's a game where you DON'T save the world. The world is destroyed. You lost. You failed. All you do in the second half of the game is pick up the pieces and try and get some redemption. But millions have been murdered, your world is dead. There's no magic fix to that. The game has WEIGHT.

It's also a game where your family dies, or your lover dies, or where you even try to commit suicide. These kind of ideas and themes just aren't in your everyday game, especially not treated so maturely like they are in FF6, and especially not in that age of gaming.

Because it's a good game."
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Gothic series (1, 2 and 3)

I was going to mention Gothic 1 but... honestly... the story got pretty derpy towards the end. I think Gothic 1 has one of the best 'settings/atmospheres/background story' but I don't think I can say it has one of the the best narrative story. Then again, I guess listing it as a series is just the same way of saying that -- the overarching storyline/universe was quite good.

What do you mean by derpy? The only derp I saw were the bad english translations. Otherwise it was pretty decent. However, the high point was the beginning when you were just learning about the camps, the economy and how you tried to crawl your way up to get something decent. That's when the story was the most interesting.

I definitely agree it started out terrific but I was put off when the sleeper was ultimately revealed and it devolved into a 'kill the big bad demon' story. I would have much rather seen them develop the storyline between the feuding camps and have it culminate in a battle between the factions rather than a dungeon crawl to kill the sleeper.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,831
I like, that codexers, tough guys on the web call that Felicia blabla guy "only above average" looking and calling them hoes who only seek attention through their "gamer gurl" schtick. While the latter is right in most of the cases, it is kinda amusing to see people who mostly consist of very awkward people ( I consider myself to be part of) calling perfectly normal, ok looking girls to be "barely scratching average" as if people here would be used to date a supermodel every day. :lol:
 

Forgotten Friend

Educated
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Slain by a mudcrab
I like, that codexers, tough guys on the web call that Felicia blabla guy "only above average" looking and calling them hoes who only seek attention through their "gamer gurl" schtick. While the latter is right in most of the cases, it is kinda amusing to see people who mostly consist of very awkward people ( I consider myself to be part of) calling perfectly normal, ok looking girls to be "barely scratching average" as if people here would be used to date a supermodel every day. :lol:
I doubt everyone here is some ugly slob. Moreover, to be white and well to do is a wonderful thing that makes such petty concerns meaningless.
 

Giauz Ragnacock

Scholar
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
502
Wait. What am I doing here again at 2:51am? Oh yeah. :what:

But seriously, Surf Solar, where do YOU believe you are right now?
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,046
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
You morons think the Witcher has a good story? Are you serious? It's about a supernatural homosexual with scars who runs around killing monsters. Herp-a-fucking-derp.

I've always thought that the concept of a Witcher - somebody who's actual job description is "killing monsters" - was a sort of deconstruction of roleplaying/fantasy tropes.

Aren't adventurers in rpgs often hired by the townsfolk to slay monsters that are threatening them? That guy with the big axe hanging around at the guild needs to eat, you know.
 

Stasgard

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Australia
Yes, but there is a difference between a wandering hobo that's really good at knifing people and a professional monster slayer. At least from a storyfaggotry perspective.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Has worse animation than a Bethesda game.
This is the only thing that puzzles me, I thought the Witcher had great animation. Maybe not in cutscenes, but the combat and walking/running was fine, except for that annoying inherited Bioware-engine shuffle that happened when you tried to execute someone too close/far away.
This is nitpicking and completely useless on my part (for once) but (and as long as by cutscenes you include dialog) I thought everything but the sword dancing looked like shit to be honest. It's all smooth and fluid as long as you do it as intended by the developers but if you ever deviate from the plan it jars the entire animation. For example, I'm running in a straight line and everything is beautiful. However, if I decide I want Geralt to run slightly more leftish it's like the entire previous running animation is destroyed. He makes this weird "jump" almost as he goes into the new direction. I dunno, it just looks weird to me. And then the dialog where everyone just stands around wobbling their bodies like zombies... Though some of them don't even do that, they just freeze in place while you're talking to them but at least their lips are moving.

But again it's just my opinion.

But seriously, Surf Solar, where do YOU believe you are right now?
Is it Brendan Fraser's funeral? Because if so I'm gonna cry, I actually like him.

Also hi, I'm not Surf du Soleil but I'm Andyman Messiah and I like Felicia Day this much! :love:
 

Forgotten Friend

Educated
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Slain by a mudcrab
We talking about The Witcher? Great. Here's what I think of that game: No real choices. No real consequences. Simple revenge plot made up almost entirely by fetch quests. The villains are forgettable. More derpy romances than in a BioWare game. Stupid, slow hack n' slash combat. Backtracking up the ass. Poorly written. Has worse animation than a Bethesda game.

Best story in an RPG is Planescape Torment. It's the obvious answer. It's the only correct answer. It's the only answer.

Baldur's Gate 2? Get the fuck out. Overrated piece of garbage.

I think it's a stretch to say choice and consequences is what makes a good story or not. Especially since there's about 3 games that have it to a degree that matters, and your favorite game story, PST, isn't one of them.

When I look at your big list of stuff that doesn't matter in witcher it seems more like an argument against choice and consequences than against witcher's story.

What is the c&c in torment? Play as a mage, thief, or fighter? Who to romance? Whether to raise your stats enough to unlock the companion (b)romance?

The story is great because it's well written and detailed and interesting, not because of a stat check every 6 hours of game play.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,844
Location
Lulea, Sweden
10. Jade Empire

It isn't very deep but it is interesting how Bioware managed to create a new world that was influenced by Asian history and mythology, but otherwise wholly original. Then they went back to generic fantasy and sci-fi. A shame, because I think they got a winner here. Made a nice change from Western medieval fare.

Why would you say it is wholly original? If anything I feel it takes more things directly from China than the average western RPG game takes from medieval europe. Both visually and as for gameworld. They even had to put in the mongols.

It's also a game where your family dies, or your lover dies, or where you even try to commit suicide. These kind of ideas and themes just aren't in your everyday game, especially not treated so maturely like they are in FF6, and especially not in that age of gaming.

Your family and lover dies in every second story. In particular your family, is almost like the ultimate cliché.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
I think it's a stretch to say choice and consequences is what makes a good story or not.
It's not a stretch. It's entirely wrong. C&C has nothing to do with how good a story is so it's a good thing that I didn't say that. Contrary to popular belief, choice and consequence is not a big thing even in Codex-approved games. I merely took the time to tell everyone how much The Witcher sucks in absolutely every department.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
Location
Villainville
MCA
10. Jade Empire

It isn't very deep but it is interesting how Bioware managed to create a new world that was influenced by Asian history and mythology, but otherwise wholly original. Then they went back to generic fantasy and sci-fi. A shame, because I think they got a winner here. Made a nice change from Western medieval fare.


lolwut.

Half-naked Asian looking chicks with funny names = influenced by Asian history and mythology porn is more like it.

16804.jpg


Look! So totally "Asian"! Even has a dragon-shaped penis.

The game is white man's Asian fetish in its entirety. Nothing interesting or original about it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,442
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
10. Jade Empire

It isn't very deep but it is interesting how Bioware managed to create a new world that was influenced by Asian history and mythology, but otherwise wholly original. Then they went back to generic fantasy and sci-fi. A shame, because I think they got a winner here. Made a nice change from Western medieval fare.


lolwut.

Half-naked Asian looking chicks with funny names = influenced by Asian history and mythology porn is more like it.

16804.jpg


Look! So totally "Asian"! Even has a dragon-shaped penis.

The game is white man's Asian fetish in its entirety. Nothing interesting or original about it.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/6668/t531344-sad-chapter-in-history-of-yellowface/
WAAAAAAAA
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
It's also worth saying that the "entirely new asian language" they "created" with a "real linguist" was just the old alien language from KOTOR.

edit: yes, like that link
 

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