What's your favorite RTS game?

[Naked_Lunch]

StarCraft is popular, therefore it must be shit.

You nifty little dog you, figuring out my anti-mainstream agenda. Perhaps it's shit because well, it's shit? Ultima is an extremely popular series, and they're my favorite games of all time. I love the Total War series and they regularly top the charts.

Mind stating what the game has in common with beating someone with a brick, or are you just talking out of your arse again.

Err, I said the enjoyment I got out of the game was comparable to beating myself in the head with a brick. I hated everything about it. The resource collecting, the stupid units, the thin rock-paper-scissors mechanic, zerg rushes, the missions, everything. Is that okay with you?

TC folks are pretty pretentious when it comes to what's 1337 and what's not. If it's not Total War, X-Com, or a 4X game, it's for stupid nubs.

Put your money where you mouth is, BNOL. Not my fault the majority of real time games coming out today are shit. I happen to like a lot of real-time games, yes even RTS! Oh man! Inconcievable! Would it make your little boo-boo feel better if we covered Korean Starcraft tournaments and had a big "WESTWOOD ARE OUR GAY LOVERS!!" banner on the site?

If someone makes a seriously kickass RTS, I won't hate on it just because it's not turn-based or whatever. A good games is a good game is a good game. It's just that no one recently has made a truly good RTS that's knocked my socks off.

Clayton, I'm sorry if you're STILL upset over Shagnak calling you a twit or getting your ass handed to you in argument but get over it, mang. All things must pass, the times they are a-changin' and so on and so forth.

 

[kingcomrade]

You nifty little dog you, figuring out my anti-mainstream agenda.

No, he figured out your childish pique. You aren't clever enough to have an agenda.

I hated everything about it. The resource collecting, the stupid units, the thin rock-paper-scissors mechanic, zerg rushes, the missions, everything.

I thought you were hardcore? Instead we find out that you can't handle simple economics and cost/benefit strategic decision making is terrible? Starcraft isn't build upon rock-paper-scissors. The only damage adjustment in the game is based upon armor and size. I might mention a couple Total War games which are twice as shallow in their unit countering schemes. Even GalCiv 2's damage system is thin paper-rock-scissors (almost literally, as there are three types of damage). And what about Civ 4? Where everything is decided by paper-rock-scissors and there's only ONE damage stat?

edit- I never said C&C games were any good. Just that I liked Dune 2.

Clayton, I'm sorry if you're STILL upset over Shagnak calling you a twit or getting your ass handed to you in argument but get over it, mang. All things must pass, the times they are a-changin' and so on and so forth.

Yeah I'm so upset that you totally failed to hand me anything.

 

[LlamaGod]

Kohan: Ahriman's Gift and even Immortal Sovereigns are waaay better than Starcraft.


And Paradox makes some really badass RTS games too.

It's just that 90% of RTS games are the same stupid bullshit and are about as deep as writing numbers on rocks and smashing them together until one breaks.

 

[Kizmiaz]

Fav RTS?

Well besides Warcraft 2 and Starcraft I really liked Desperados: Wanted dead or alive.
Too bad there's no replay value.

SAGA: Rage of the Vikings was also rather fun but also suffers from the aforementioned weakness. And centaurs.

Another game that I enjoyed was MechCommander 2. (But I still longs for a turn-based version. And do the BattleMech games have the worst FMV:s known to players?)

 

[roguefrog]

I enjoyed the original MechCommander more than the sequel for some reason. Even if the mechanics in the sequel were improved. I don't remember.

TA is my favorite because its scope is large and inchange. The inteface is sexy keen. Unlimited queue power with infinate flexibility for everything. Physics and terrain play a huge role. No paper-rock-scissors bullshit. The whole theater of war (Infantry, Vehicle, Air, Water, Artillery, Hover) and open-end structure hierachy, etc

 

[kingcomrade]

One thing I did like about TA was the way they handled "teching up." Rather than spending a bit of money and waiting for 10 minutes to get a +1 to attack, you just saved up and invested in an Advanced Factory. The problem with the units is that most of them are superfluous and useless compared to others, and a lot of the Arm units are just utterly superior to the Core counterparts. The pathfinding AI in that game was pretty bad, as well.

Kohan: Ahriman's Gift and even Immortal Sovereigns are waaay better than Starcraft.

I disagree, neither were as smooth to control, for starters, and in an RTS that's a big deal.

 

[roguefrog]

There were a lot of units, and some where made for very specific purposes, whether this made them less viable or not depends on the circumstances. Suffice to say not all units are created equal. Overall theres still a lot more viable units then most RTSs can hope of offering. I think the large amount really only hurts new players that are not familar with all of them and their functions. ARM is superior, and their main advantage is access to EMGs (Energy Machine Guns ala the Flash Tank). Core does have better tech2 tanks which can be a serious threat when used correctly. These tiny advantages are completely null with too good players.

Pathfinding is weak arrgh, and very problematic on certain crammed maps (see Block Wars *shudder*) Waypoints are generally your friend. Don't let that unlimited queue power go to waste.

Another plus was the unit AI which could be set to different behaviors. A unit could handle itself without you constantly babysitting it. Especailly since you could seamlessly set up complex patrol or move routes right out of the factory. The controls/interface virtually removed all the tedius mirco chores that plagued the other RTSs at the time.

 

[Thrawn05]

Flawed logic? Because I decide things for myself? Even someone with blinders on like you can see the relationship between TA and Supreme Commander, and the lack of one between the oncoming Fallout 3 and the originals.

The tactics between TA and SC are totaly different. In TA you had to rush your troops in. From what I've read, SC is far more slow, and the mecanics are nothing like in TA.

 

[kingcomrade]

Yeah, totally different
From what I've read, it sounds almost the same, units come off the assembly line and are ready for battle. The only time I've read about being more "slow" is on big maps where you need transports.
Mechanics are also coming out the same. I've read that he's again going with Newtonian physics weapons, rather than MS Excel weapons (5 damage - 2 Armor + 1 High Ground = 4 Damage) like in most RTS games, that units can swivel just like in TA, and that construction is handled in the same manner as in TA, the same resouce model based on income/outgoing rather than stockpiles, etc.

From everything I've read, Supreme Commander is an evolution of TA.

The tactics between TA and SC are totaly different.

What? Besides being a meaningless phrase, there's no possible way that you could support this.

 

[kingcomrade]

The thing I've never gotten about TA was the Kbot vs. Vehicle thing. As far as I can tell, vehicles are just superior.

 

[roguefrog]

whatever, Kbots are cheaper and build faster. Rockos can lay the smack down in large groups. And they can axe through DT forests like you wouldn't believe. I generally perfer vechicals though, not really because of the units (I do luv me some Samsons) but because the vehicle construction bot is more efficient. TA is all about keeping production going, non-stop with little to no nanostalls. It's tough governing nine contruction bots, keeping them busy around the clock while managing resources carefully, expanding across the map, setting up radar grids, and attacking the enemy.

My natural play style is being on offense the entire game. I have bare bone defenses that leave my base vulernable, but as long as I keep the battle at the enemies base I'm gold. I establish secret projects in the remote corners of the map away from my centeral command as insurance policies.