You favorite games that are NOT regarded as Classics!

[Captain Shrek]

Wtf are you on about? I lasted till the mutant missions and everything I wrote is 100% true. Unless you claim that FT is not simply F1-2 combat system ported to a tactical-wannabe game which is logically a fail since the system is in fact rather poor even for a dialogue-heavy crpg? Goddamn idiots getting butthurt overt their favourite shitty games being shitty.

Although pointless to ask, do you enjoy TB-RPGs?

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I LIKED PHANTASIE THREE IT MIGHT BE ONE OF MY FAVES I LIKED THE LOCATIONAL DAMAGE AND IT WAS ONE OF MY FIRST CRPGS

OH BROS ALTERNATE REALITY THE DUNGEON I THINK IT WAS WAY WAY AHEAD OF ITS TIME

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Although pointless to ask, do you enjoy TB-RPGs?

He listed JA among the games that FT failed to live up to, so obviously, yes.

 

[Saxon1974]

The one that comes to mind immediately is Mount and Blade. I know it pretty much died on its feet after the first few years of "development" and we still have a game that's very much a perpetual beta. I know it's just a fairly shallow medieval combat sim with some RPGish window dressing. But damned if it isn't the one game I play a long campaign through at least once a year. Probably one of my most played games, and the one I'd have the most trouble justifying. "I really like the *schunk* noise when you ride past an enemy lord and clothesline them with a giant claymore, see..."

Mount & Blade for me too, for pretty much the same reasons. I love the medieval era but not a huge lover of strategy games so this game fits nicely. I just wich the dev would add more questions, events and interesting things going on to flesh the world out more. The mods are where its at though, right now I am playing 1257ad

Others:
Magic Candle - just a bit too late to the scene as an Ultima clone, graphics werent that good for when it was released and I dont think it got much marketing. LOVE THIS GAME
Lands of Lore
Divine Divinity

gotta be missing a few

 

[laclongquan]

Wtf are you on about? I lasted till the mutant missions and everything I wrote is 100% true. Unless you claim that FT is not simply F1-2 combat system ported to a tactical-wannabe game which is logically a fail since the system is in fact rather poor even for a dialogue-heavy crpg? Goddamn idiots getting butthurt overt their favourite shitty games being shitty.

First point, FT combat system is not F1/2 combat system. A quarter of the moans and groans around here is precisely because of that. They look similar to each other but that is just that, LOOK. If nothing else, you can change FT to the other mode and enjoy nearly Real time combat. And without that mode, combat on the huge battlefields that is a third of FT's battles will be pretty tedious. You can choose tactical turnbased for certain important skirmishes, but you dont have to play with it every damn time.

Second point, FT require flexible minds. The jump from normal human fighters to mutants are a big jump. I guess you use the normal tactic of ambush that works well against humans on those humongous mutants. Dangerous! The damn mutants can take multiple shot to the chest and still reach for you with a horrible grin. It's a trademark description of them. You should use both Full burst shot on all (small)guns or change entirely to Big Guns. When you changed to the next enemies, you will change tactic to long range sniping because their weaponry is too dangerous to chance. Each stage of the game require you change weapon skills and tactics to go with it.

On this point, F1/2 dont have any such jump. Wear best armors you can find and you can use Super Sledge to go melee, or upgraded laser pistol to go rangedm, the both can be had as early as New Reno.

EDIT: and babe! If Crit Ranged is not nerfed, a Sniper on tower/high ground will oneshot killed any in range, Mutants included. Which is frankly ridiculous. Or sit on a car sniping, then drive away when they get near. Even more ridiculous.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

First point, FT combat system is not F1/2 combat system. A quarter of the moans and groans around here is precisely because of that. They look similar to each other but that is just that, LOOK.

How is it not F1-2 system (we are talking about tb mode of course)? Apart from the ability to change stance it is exactly F1-2 system ffs, denying obvious facts won't win you an argument.

In FT:
- the combat is not deadly in most situations, the characters can withstand idiotic amounts of punishment, compare that to Incubation for example, where the weakest alien would rip your soldiers to shreds in seconds if you let it go close
- all characters can carry multiple weapons at a time with tons of additional ammo and use them without any problems, I clearly remember my main character carrying few thousand rounds for his ak47 - absolutely ridiculous even for a shitty console corridor fps, never mind a tactical game
- the soldiers won't panic, go berserk, no weapon damage, jamming etc

These things were ok in F1-2 because F1-2 were dialogue-heavy crpgs with one player controlled character and the ability to skip most of the combat if one wanted. The idea that this would work for a tactical game was just plain stupid.

They basically did nothing to tune F1-2 combat into a tactical game. They just gave you control over a team, but every character works on the same F1-2 rules. And yes, you are perfectly able to clear large parts of many maps by just going RT and running with your team burst shooting everyone which tells you a lot about the combat and the mission design.

I would also personally add absolutely messed up equipment progression of this game, you were running with leather armors, ak47/basic shotguns/hunting rifles for snipers for a huge initial part of the game and then suddenly around when the mutants appear they just threw tons of new stuff at you which made most of the equipment completely obsolete.

Second point, FT require flexible minds.

It doesn't require shit when compared to proper tactical games which is my whole point.

The biggest advantage of FT is that it belongs to a genre that never got the attention it deserved. So if you are tired of playing the best few games you will still have some fun with it, but that's about it.

Although pointless to ask, do you enjoy TB-RPGs?

No, I enjoy Mass Effect and Bubble Bobble, how did you figure that out, Sherlock?

 

[laclongquan]

In FT:
- the combat is not deadly in most situations, the characters can withstand idiotic amounts of punishment, compare that to Incubation for example, where the weakest alien would rip your soldiers to shreds in seconds if you let it go close

That is not my impression. I do remember that if I let my troops get hurt one, it's easier to get hurt the next. And it's really hard to keep them alive in the third encounter.

- all characters can carry multiple weapons at a time with tons of additional ammo and use them without any problems, I clearly remember my main character carrying few thousand rounds for his ak47 - absolutely ridiculous even for a shitty console corridor fps, never mind a tactical game.

You are fucking complaining about they use their guns in their skill group? That A highly skilled Small Gun Specialist cant use his Neostead along with his AK47? It's game design. If you want hundreds of types of guns, grouping them together under one umbrella skill is NECESSARY.
And of course the main char carry thousands of rounds for his AK47. FFS, it's my whole hoard. I remember that half of the times I have barely enough for 3 if they carry backup rifles of diff. ammo. If not, one carry all and others make do.

- the soldiers won't panic, go berserk, no weapon damage, jamming etc

Again, you are nitpicking. Morale doesnt apply well for this game because game devs drop that feature from outset. They were worried about making a game that didnt make gamers squeeing like slaughtered pigs, not copying other game's feature. This is fucking Fallout Tactics, not Jagged Alliance 3 or whatever.

These things were ok in F1-2 because F1-2 were dialogue-heavy crpgs with one player controlled character and the ability to skip most of the combat if one wanted. The idea that this would work for a tactical game was just plain stupid.

They basically did nothing to tune F1-2 combat into a tactical game. They just gave you control over a team, but every character works on the same F1-2 rules.

Again, you are making the same whinings and moaning and groanings they make around here. Fallout Tactics is not Fallout1/2. GET REAL.

And yes, you are perfectly able to clear large parts of many maps by just going RT and running with your team burst shooting everyone which tells you a lot about the combat and the mission design.

Again, this show that you RAGEQUIT and never go past the mission you got car. Driving around Main Missions with cars are asking to be blasted skyhigh. That feature only works with later, armoured cars and only in nearly endgame skirmishes where you want to farm certain ammo. Do that across a troop of mutants with RPGs is asking for a rocket buttsex.

I would also personally add absolutely messed up equipment progression of this game, you were running with leather armors, ak47/basic shotguns/hunting rifles for snipers for a huge initial part of the game and then suddenly around when the mutants appear they just threw tons of new stuff at you which made most of the equipment completely obsolete.

Again, FT is not F1/2. Different enemies require different weapons and different skills. Start early game with miniguns are overkill. Do you ever hear of the concept "pacing"? Later on, when you start using Energy Guns you can also reuse Small Gun Specialists of early stage with new weapons. But different enemies with different armour/HP level require different kind of weapons and approach.

Bah. If you ragequit a game, do yourself a favour and dont try to pretend expertise in that game. We see right through it.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

That is not my impression. I do remember that if I let my troops get hurt one, it's easier to get hurt the next. And it's really hard to keep them alive in the third encounter.

So you're mocking my "expertise" and then saying that you had problems with keeping your squad alive in the third mission of goddamn Fallout Tactics? Um... OK. And again, compare it to the games I mentioned. Pretending that FT is the only "tactical" game in existence and dancing around it merrily only makes you look silly.

You are fucking complaining about they use their guns in their skill group?

No dumbass, I'm complaining that in FT a character is able to carry 5 assault rifles, couple of pistols plus a bucket of ammo and just use them freely which has no place in my tactical game.

And of course the main char carry thousands of rounds for his AK47. FFS, it's my whole hoard. I remember that half of the times I have barely enough for 3 if they carry backup rifles of diff. ammo. If not, one carry all and others make do.

Sorry, I just couldn't write anything more here.

Again, you are nitpicking. Morale doesnt apply well for this game because game devs drop that feature from outset. They were worried about making a game that didnt make gamers squeeing like slaughtered pigs, not copying other game's feature. This is fucking Fallout Tactics, not Jagged Alliance 3 or whatever.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm simply comparing the game to the standard set by the tactical games before it. Also I like it how you claim that adding morale to FT would be "copying other game's feature", jebus.

Again, you are making the same whinings and moaning and groanings they make around here. Fallout Tactics is not Fallout1/2.

My whole goddamn point is that it shouldn't be.

Again, this show that you RAGEQUIT and never go past the mission you got car. Driving around Main Missions with cars are asking to be blasted skyhigh. That feature only works with later, armoured cars and only in nearly endgame skirmishes where you want to farm certain ammo. Do that across a troop of mutants with RPGs is asking for a rocket buttsex.

I'm writing about being able to complete large parts of various missions by running and using autofire in RT which clearly show the shittines of the rules and design and you're jumping in with riding your whole team in a car and getting blasted. Are you high or something?

Again, FT is not F1/2. Different enemies require different weapons and different skills. Start early game with miniguns are overkill. Do you ever hear of the concept "pacing"?

Yes, I'm talking about pacing and pacing in FT is completely broken, making shitton of the available equipment absolutely obsolete.

Bah. If you ragequit a game, do yourself a favour and dont try to pretend expertise in that game. We see right through it.

Who's "we"? Grampy Bone and you?

 

[laclongquan]

Should I or should I not degenerate into a shouting match with you? I dont think so.

 

[Heechee]

The fact that FT can be completed with a single character without any major problems (except for those few missions where you need to have additional character do something mechanical simultaneously) speaks volumes about its "tactical" qualities. The game might be good for what it is, but it is utterly retarded to compare it to Jagged Alliance games or Incubation.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

How is it retarded to compare it to other games from the genre it supposedly belongs to (or at least aims at belonging to)? Such comparison is the most plausible way to show why it's not a very good title.

 

[laclongquan]

Incubation? What I heard about didnt inspire trying the game. So I cant say how it was.

As for the single char aspect, that is not a criticism the way you think it means. Most of tactical games have that aspect as well. Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm series..., all can be played with one character. If you dont mind hit and run tactic, and drawn-out battles, that is.

As for Jagged Alliance 2? :shrug: Fallout Tactic is not Jagged Alliance 3. I am really tired of saying that.

 

[markec]

Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance is in my opinion a great combination of strategy and rpg, a must play. Also I consider Battlespire to be the best TES game yet most people think of it as a more of a black sheep of the family.

 

[Heechee]

How is it retarded to compare it to other games from the genre it supposedly belongs to (or at least aims at belonging to)? Such comparison is the most plausible way to show why it's not a very good title.

Not the best wording on my part. I meant it's really a different league.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance is in my opinion a great combination of strategy and rpg, a must play. A

HOW THE FUCK DID I MISS THIS GAME?????????????


Getting it now.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance is in my opinion a great combination of strategy and rpg, a must play.

Where can I get this?????????????????????????????????

 

[Aeschylus]

Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance is in my opinion a great combination of strategy and rpg, a must play.

Where can I get this?????????????????????????????????

You can't buy it anywhere, except maybe ebay, so that only leaves the one option.

 

[markec]

Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance is in my opinion a great combination of strategy and rpg, a must play.

Where can I get this?????????????????????????????????

You can find it here http://www.abandonia.com/vbullet/forumdisplay.php?f=43 but you need to register.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Incubation? What I heard about didnt inspire trying the game. So I cant say how it was.

As for the single char aspect, that is not a criticism the way you think it means. Most of tactical games have that aspect as well. Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm series..., all can be played with one character. If you dont mind hit and run tactic, and drawn-out battles, that is.

As for Jagged Alliance 2? :shrug: Fallout Tactic is not Jagged Alliance 3. I am really tired of saying that.

Of course it isn't. It was supposed to be party-based Fallout. They said they didn't even want to try to achieve the level of quality of JA2/X-Com when it comes the tactical combat part. The problem is that somewhere along the "party-based Fallout" got lost and it ended up as a sub-par tactical game that doesn't have features that are standard even in mediocre tactical games.

 

[laclongquan]

What lacking, then?

 

[taxalot]

HAHA, OH WOW
http://blip.tv/adg/episode-86-moraff-s-world-6141493

I played that a whole summer when a kid on a monochrome 486 SLC 25mhz laptop during the summer, instead of going out and having glorious sex at the ripe age of 10/11 or something.

It was my first introduction to the world of roguelikes.

 

[861129]

It's not RPG, but fucking TRESPASSER.

 

[Jaesun]

It's not a RPG?

 

[Internet]

I played Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords a lot.

 

[861129]

It's not a RPG?

You play the role of a pair of boobs.