The best base building RTS's

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

It not really a RTS at all, but Settlers 3 is a fantastic base builder. Basically the whole game is about building up your economy, after that the combat is basically an afterthought.

 

[IDtenT]

Settlers 2 is better. Which reminds me, a Settlers 2 open source clone/remake: http://wl.widelands.org/

 

[Johannes]

Personally hate base builders that makes you rush, so I'm a much bigger fan of AoE than Starcraft, C&C, etc.

I can definitely agree.

I like RT, but not the mental pace most RTSes are played at - they are effectively more twitchy than even old FPS games like Quake or UT and making rushes viable and desired tactics puts even more emphasis on that, because they rely on amassing units early, rather than organizing your defences, attack groups and tech.

Why is a game like AoE preferable then? Yes, you don't attack straight away apart from some harass/scouting with your horseman, but that doesn't diminish the microintensity of it at all. You still need to have your shit really well together or you'll die just because you can't execute the starting build as well as the enemy.
And that's not even considering how difficult it is to manage the late-game economy and armies. Early game with small amounts of units has much less opportunities to win with pure mechanical superiority, giving even a noob a slight chance if they can come up with a clever plan (though they in practice won't).

 

[Lyesmith]

Ah, another of these threads. I'm then bound to repeat myself with Battle Realms.
Base building is nowhere near spectacular, as in many games already mentioned, but game with its unique way of training units alone is worth playing. Graphics are ugly, as you can expect from early 3d, still all units looks very distinctive.

 

[Phelot]

My memory of Total Annihilation multiplayer back in the day.

1) Build solar collector(s)
2) Build metal exrtractor(s)
3) Build vehicle plant(s)
4) Mass produce Flash tier 1 tanks
5) Produce airfield
6) Produce 1 transport plane
7) Pick up commander with transport, fly to enemy base
8) Watch plane get shot down, commander explosion kills entire enemy army
9) Flash blob mops up
10) Opponent: FUCK YOU FUCKER YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED OT FUCKING ATTACK BEFORE 30 MINUTE!!!!!1!!


Commander bomb es king of all-in rush!

That kind of did ruin the game for awhile, especially when the first thing they build is an air field. Why did you even bother with vehicles if that was your strategy?

I enjoyed sending my commander on suicide runs before quitting "DUDE UR GAY F U"

Used to play on TEN. Ahhh the dialup days.

EDIT: Oh! You picked up your own commander? It's more infuriating picking up the enemy commander, typing "gg" and then self destruct the transporter. It's also amazing how difficult it is to kill a transporter with just a commander.

 

[Ulminati]

That kind of did ruin the game for awhile, especially when the first thing they build is an air field. Why did you even bother with vehicles if that was your strategy?

'cause if the commander didn't get the entire base I'd still have a plan B. Mass flash was so OP anyway. You could probably skip the commander trollbomb entirely.

 

[Phelot]

That is ghey, while your transport blows up their commander, just have your commander mop up any shitty extractor or whatever after. Or you should be able to get a bomber or something built.

I CHALLENGE YOUR TROLL WAYS

 

[Johannes]

That's why sensible people play on Comm Ends. Not that a straight combomb is hard to stop, but backed by tanks like in the first example it does make the game into a coinflip to some extent.

 

[Phelot]

Altogether it's lame to do. Rushing in general is kind of annoying, but viable of course, but a grace period can make the game a lot more fun. It gets tiring when the game always ends before anyone can even get to tier 2 units

It's been a long time since I've played, thoough.

 

[Ulminati]

Altogether it's lame to do. Rushing in general is kind of annoying, but viab--

ZERG RUSH! KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!!!

 

[Johannes]

Grace period just makes the game ridiculous, you spam 30 cons nonstop and just queue mexes and solars (and what should happen when your cons try to claim the same mex?)... Then get, hmm, hawks, nukes, and/or berthas, then have a brief showdown after the grace ends.
If you've got good players, limiting early aggression (and scouting, too) doesn't end up in the kind of "cool fortresses fighting against each other" that newbies want to happen.

For that kind of thing, you should just play MetalHeck. (TA map) : P

 

[IDtenT]

Personally hate base builders that makes you rush, so I'm a much bigger fan of AoE than Starcraft, C&C, etc.

I can definitely agree.

I like RT, but not the mental pace most RTSes are played at - they are effectively more twitchy than even old FPS games like Quake or UT and making rushes viable and desired tactics puts even more emphasis on that, because they rely on amassing units early, rather than organizing your defences, attack groups and tech.

Why is a game like AoE preferable then? Yes, you don't attack straight away apart from some harass/scouting with your horseman, but that doesn't diminish the microintensity of it at all. You still need to have your shit really well together or you'll die just because you can't execute the starting build as well as the enemy.
And that's not even considering how difficult it is to manage the late-game economy and armies. Early game with small amounts of units has much less opportunities to win with pure mechanical superiority, giving even a noob a slight chance if they can come up with a clever plan (though they in practice won't).

Most AoE players have little to no interest in the other player, with rush games it's always about the competitor - fuck that shit. Half of AoE is building your city, exploring the map and upgrading your settlement. The narrative you weave has little to do with the combative end game and I'm thankful for that.

 

[Phelot]

Grace period just makes the game ridiculous, you spam 30 cons nonstop and just queue mexes and solars (and what should happen when your cons try to claim the same mex?)... Then get, hmm, hawks, nukes, and/or berthas, then have a brief showdown after the grace ends.
If you've got good players, limiting early aggression (and scouting, too) doesn't end up in the kind of "cool fortresses fighting against each other" that newbies want to happen.

For that kind of thing, you should just play MetalHeck. (TA map) : P

I enjoy multiplayer games when they don't resort to all the exploits and tricks, though. I don't really have anything against them and I understand that really advanced players will want to use them, but still.

Like in Myth TFL/2, the whole Fetch lightning tricks coupled with dwarf grenades would make the games incredibly lame even though it was necessary to use if the other side was using them. I hate that.

 

[Johannes]

IDtenT, Why not just play Sim City or similar then, if you hate challenging games?

What exploit are you talking about here Phelot?

 

[Phelot]

Like the whole transport ship snatching your commander. Maybe I shouldn't say exploit in that regard, but when something that, in my opinion is rather cheap, starts to replace the rest of the gameplay than it ends up being lame, like I mentioned with certain Myth maps like the Desert Between your Ears map (the one with 2 player slots and potentially tons of Trows)

 

[Phelot]

Anyway, I agree with IDtenT, well at least a lot of the times I enjoy not trying to win instantly and enjoy a fun and hard fought game, though I haven't played an RTS in years and any MP strategy game in awhile.

 

[Ashery]

Grace period just makes the game ridiculous, you spam 30 cons nonstop and just queue mexes and solars (and what should happen when your cons try to claim the same mex?)... Then get, hmm, hawks, nukes, and/or berthas, then have a brief showdown after the grace ends.
If you've got good players, limiting early aggression (and scouting, too) doesn't end up in the kind of "cool fortresses fighting against each other" that newbies want to happen.

For that kind of thing, you should just play MetalHeck. (TA map) : P

Kohan is one of the few games that tries to counter early rush tactics mechanically: All towns have a militia that will come out to aid in defense when the town is threatened. Combine this with a couple player controlled companies and you can easily drive off a (moderately) stronger force. But Kohan is shit when it comes to this particular topic (ie base building), at least in the traditional sense, so it's a bit of a moot point.

 

[IDtenT]

IDtenT, Why not just play Sim City or similar then, if you hate challenging games?

What do you mean by challenging? Does every RTS game only exist so that another player could challenge you? Fuck no. Starcraft may follow such a model and that's why I wouldn't play it. AoE isn't like that - at all.

 

[Phelot]

Does every RTS game only exist so that another player could challenge you?

Uh oh, inb4 20 page argument

 

[Havoc]

Original War?

 

[Johannes]

IDtenT, Why not just play Sim City or similar then, if you hate challenging games?

What do you mean by challenging? Does every RTS game only exist so that another player could challenge you? Fuck no. Starcraft may follow such a model and that's why I wouldn't play it. AoE isn't like that - at all.

AoE is just like that if you play it like that. And that's what it was kinda designed for. Of course alone, you can play it in whatever way you like and hopefully your computer won't mind.

 

[Oriental European]

Battle for the Middle-Earth 2 buildings have very beautiful animations, the whole system with slots isn't bad either.
Dawn of War base building is simple but entertaining.
Since building order usually stays the same through the most games, i now prefer RTSs with brief/not complex base building part, like Red Alert 2 or DoW: Soulstorm. I grew tired of Star/WarCraft/AoE style system of bb.

 

[Destroid]

Altogether it's lame to do. Rushing in general is kind of annoying, but viable of course, but a grace period can make the game a lot more fun. It gets tiring when the game always ends before anyone can even get to tier 2 units

It's been a long time since I've played, thoough.

This is only a problem with all-ins.

 

[Nomask Alt]

Kohan is one of the few games that tries to counter early rush tactics mechanically: All towns have a militia that will come out to aid in defense when the town is threatened. Combine this with a couple player controlled companies and you can easily drive off a (moderately) stronger force. But Kohan is shit when it comes to this particular topic (ie base building), at least in the traditional sense, so it's a bit of a moot point.

I always thought one of the main points of there being a commander in TA was that it would balance any early battle in favor of the defending party. But of course there are annoying shits who use the commander for early harassment, which tends to nullify that point.

 

[Destroid]

The commander isn't fast enough to make that a good idea, unless you play on a very small map.