Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption

[Clotstein]

2 things:
1) I'm playing it, the gameplay is downright painfully unbearable. The story so far looks meh (just awoken in london). I'm really REALLY tempted to cheat my way trough just to get this torture over with lest i end up stabing a fork in my forehead. (it is noteworthy, however, that i fucking hate hack and slash, so much in fact i could never end Diablo)
2) I don't know why this is in the console rpg section, i'm pretty sure this game, shitty as it is, was never released in consoles.

 

[Darth Roxor]

(just awoken in london)

That's the modern-day part, right? Uninstall the game. Seriously. I liked the medieval part, but the modern-day one was absolute shit, and I never finished it. If you didn't like the game so far, it'll only get worse from now on.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Darth Roxor Speaks true.

 

[Kz3r0]

2 things:
1) I'm playing it, the gameplay is downright painfully unbearable. The story so far looks meh (just awoken in london). I'm really REALLY tempted to cheat my way trough just to get this torture over with lest i end up stabing a fork in my forehead. (it is noteworthy, however, that i fucking hate hack and slash, so much in fact i could never end Diablo)
2) I don't know why this is in the console rpg section, i'm pretty sure this game, shitty as it is, was never released in consoles.

I think that this game has the highest number of people using cheats to defeat the final boss, really, it's not worth the hassle.

 

[Father Walker]

(just awoken in london)

That's the modern-day part, right? Uninstall the game. Seriously. I liked the medieval part, but the modern-day one was absolute shit, and I never finished it. If you didn't like the game so far, it'll only get worse from now on.

Yeah, I also quit it around London. Would not play it again.

 

[Excidium]

This time I managed to get up to the point where you have to do some shit in vienna by day and you need to avoid the spots of sunlight, which makes it really annoying with the retarded AI getting burned to death.

 

[Jaesun]

This time I managed to get up to the point where you have to do some shit in vienna by day and you need to avoid the spots of sunlight, which makes it really annoying with the retarded AI getting burned to death.

Yeah, that part was done bad. Remember you can ungroup every one and just move them one by one. Then its easy and fast to get through it.

 

[Pablosdog]

I'll definately be picking this bitch up since I just finished Call of Cthulhu. I beat it yeeeearrs ago back in the old great blobert wars of 08

 

[Texas Red]

Why is the modern part awful? Too much filler combat?

 

[Mother Russia]

This was a game with a great idea but horrible execution.

It had a couple of things going against it from the get go:

1) It was based on the OWoD ruleset, which was utter, utter shit (so is the new one btw, as well as the crap they have churned out in Exalted 2.0)

2) The game was real time with pause, yet the ruleset it was based on was fully turnbased. The Baldurs Gate series also suffered from this problem, but the good docs worked around it to some extend by making the play area big enough you could actually use the pause feature before enemies swarmed you AND the fact that the BG series had a MUCH MUCH better RTwP system. Bloodlines basically was a RT hack and slash which you could pause, but if I recall correctly you could not issue orders while paused.

3) Only 3 characters active at a time. No char gen. Useless disciplines (but they did get ALL the 5 pt disciplines into the game and most had their own graphics/animation. Not only that, but Protean actually did what it did in the pnp game, unlike shitty redemption. You could actually shapeshift into a wolf, for instance. Two thumbs up just for that)

4) Horrific AI. Normally I don't much care about AI and pathfinding at all, but in this game it really, really showed. It was incredibly bad. The MOST annoying and gamebraking thing for me was your NPCs (or whoever you were not directly controlling at the time) immediately used their most powerful disciplines (usually clerity and potence at the same time) on the first couple of bunch of mooks thrown at you. This drained blood, which is what powers the disciplines. Worse, if these NPCs has blood vials (aka blood potions) they would immediately use it to spam more clerity and potence. This was SO FUCKING IRRITATING because I always prefer to save disciplines against tough enemies, not mooks.
This is one of the reasons I quit the game less than halfway through

The game had some good things about it too:

1) Vampire game. Big plus. Apart from Blood Omens, this was the only Vamp game around in any genre, AFAIR. (Castlevania doesn't count, as you don't play as a vamp in that crap)

2) Great graphics and good animations. The best 3D game at the time in terms of pure looks. Better than any FPS of the time and for a couple years after IMO.

3) Really nice art style, especially armor of the knights (Christof) and the design of the small village where Christof wakes up in the beginning.

4) Enjoyable story. I liked the reveal of the vampires to Christof. I also liked his angst over Aneska, the hot nun.

5) In theory, the leap ahead in time to modern day is not a bad idea at all. However, I personally prefer the medieval era. But am putting this as a plus point because it will be a refreshing change for most players.


Thus overall this game has wayyy too many shit elements to waste time agonizing over. BUT as a history lesson in CRPGs it is a great game. This game was actually wayyyyy ahead of it's time, as all Bioware + Obsidian + other studios games made since KOTOR are directly modeled after this game to a large extent. Pretty impressive considering that this game was released BEFORE even BG1.

Does anyone remember what dev company made Bloodlines? What happened to them after this game? And I don't suppose some devs from this moved to Bioware after this game was released did they?

I am pretty sure Activision published this, but not 100%.

 

[abnaxus]

Does anyone remember what dev company made Bloodlines? What happened to them after this game? And I don't suppose some devs from this moved to Bioware after this game was released did they?

I am pretty sure Activision published this, but not 100%.

Nihilistic software, and yeah Activision

http://www.mobygames.com/game/vampire-the-masquerade-redemption

 

[Marsal]

Mother Russia
Bro, the first one is Redemption, the second one is Bloodlines.

 

[Grim Monk]

Okay just finished it, and will post my thoughts.
This will probably come out disjointed and rambling...

First of thanks to Jaesun for convincing my to buy this game with his posts number #62 and #64

A comparison with Bloodlines is unfair as these games are totally different.

That said, this game fails as an “RPG”, and has many failings as a “Game”.

The worst offender is the “Dungeon Cleaning” based gameplay.
Its devided into segments based around locations.
“Story bit”, then three or four levels full of of enemies to kill, next “story bit”.
Also most of the time the the levels will be inhabited by only two basic types of enemies.


Granted they due switch up the "two" enemies between segments, so that forces you to readjust.
They throw in some light puzzles, and there are secret rooms which yield special loot.
The visual design in most of the levels is great.
Most of the soundtrack is really good, but a couple of tracks are annoying.
The “Factory” level made me temporarily turn of the music altogether.

I like the story overall, but it has heavy problems...
What your shown and the way characters act clashes with what is portrayed by the actual gameplay.


For example, after your turned into a vampire the game seems to hand wave huge shifts and readjustments that happen to Christof.

He actually adjusts into his vampiric existence.

He at at some point gets invested in the “Promethean” cause.

He developed some measure respect for his sire Ecaterina.

He develops affection for his companions, and they likewise for him.

I got a feel for these changes due to the evolution how characters spoke to each other, and the way Christof would reference past events.
Yet I couldn't for the life of me tell you when these developments actually took place.

“Offscreen Character Development” would be the key term for the problem.

 

[Surf Solar]

I played the shit out of the demo when this came out, bought the game eventually. Spent more time reading the very good manual than playing the game. :/

 

[Excidium]

This game sucks big time

 

[Haba]

Nope.

 

[oscar]

I got bored at the Tremere Chantry. Enemies were repetitive and the aforementioned npc AI really was terrible. This added a lot of unnecessary micromanagement (worsened by the inability to issue orders while paused) to the already gratuitous amount of combat against repetitive enemies.

Atmosphere was quite nice though. I also liked the scenes with the asshole Ventrue prince and the tensions between them and the Brujah.

 

[Rahdulan]

I got bored at the Tremere Chantry. Enemies were repetitive and the aforementioned npc AI really was terrible. This added a lot of unnecessary micromanagement (worsened by the inability to issue orders while paused) to the already gratuitous amount of combat against repetitive enemies.

Atmosphere was quite nice though. I also liked the scenes with the asshole Ventrue prince and the tensions between them and the Brujah.

Yeah, Tremere chantry was what almost made me quit when I first played the game. Predominantly ranged enemies combined with party members' bad AI and pathfinding? What could possibly go wrong! I'm not sure what's worse; Tremere chantry or Tzimisce castle later on where practically every enemy can make you frenzy with Drawing out the Beast.

But where the game really falters is probably when you get to modern nights and firearms which simply aren't designed to work with this combat system, from having to drag around half your inventory worth of ammo to guns being dependent on Dexterity... which you never raised anyway because who in their right mind used bows in the medieval times aside from maybe having one dedicated character for "just in case" situations? Ainkurn sword continues to be your weapon of choice in modern period, but at least you get trench coats. Yeah.

 

[Excidium]

I got bored at the Tremere Chantry. Enemies were repetitive and the aforementioned npc AI really was terrible. This added a lot of unnecessary micromanagement (worsened by the inability to issue orders while paused) to the already gratuitous amount of combat against repetitive enemies.

Atmosphere was quite nice though. I also liked the scenes with the asshole Ventrue prince and the tensions between them and the Brujah.

Yeah, Tremere chantry was what almost made me quit when I first played the game. Predominantly ranged enemies combined with party members' bad AI and pathfinding? What could possibly go wrong! I'm not sure what's worse; Tremere chantry or Tzimisce castle later on where practically every enemy can make you frenzy with Drawing out the Beast.

But where the game really falters is probably when you get to modern nights and firearms which simply aren't designed to work with this combat system, from having to drag around half your inventory worth of ammo to guns being dependent on Dexterity... which you never raised anyway because who in their right mind used bows in the medieval times aside from maybe having one dedicated character for "just in case" situations? Ainkurn sword continues to be your weapon of choice in modern period, but at least you get trench coats. Yeah.

But dexterity is used for melee attack rolls. In the pnp anyway

 

[Rahdulan]

But dexterity is used for melee attack rolls. In the pnp anyway

Really? Wasn't it used for accuracy and certain weapon requirement, at least in the game? I guess I must be misremembering it then and guns are even worse than I thought. Aside from the Stakegun because we wouldn't to make the last boss hard, now would we?

 

[Outmind]

Having finished the game a couple of months ago, i can echo some of you that said it was conceptually a good game with crippling mechanics and a nature that was too grindy.

And yet, i enjoyed playing it, quite a lot actually. I'd have to say it's thanks to the owod setting more than anything - it carries the game and you play it simply because you want to hear about that one last tidbit of lore, or are wondering which clan's minions you are going up against in the level de jour. Still, it's the feel and the atmosphere more than anything that redeems the game.

Sure the controls were horrible, but it kinda gave the game more of a challenge. Also, many of you are scorning it for its hack'n slashyness, but forget that the mechanics of vtm allow for combat somewhat deeper than pure click & swing. You had skills in dominate where you could beckon your helpless victims and feed from them effortlessly. You had charm of concealment which could get you out of sticky situations, or alow you to explore with a single character wile the rest lie in wait. Reading some of the replies makes me think that people didn't use the single character option anywhere other than the lasombra mission.

 

[Modron]

I always despised the shift to present time in the game because all the modern weapons were absolutely terrible, flamethrowers and miniguns included, plus their ammo took up all your inventory. I would always end up cheating and giving myself back that magic sword from medieval times.

 

[Daemongar]

4) Horrific AI. Normally I don't much care about AI and pathfinding at all, but in this game it really, really showed. It was incredibly bad. The MOST annoying and gamebraking thing for me was your NPCs (or whoever you were not directly controlling at the time) immediately used their most powerful disciplines (usually clerity and potence at the same time) on the first couple of bunch of mooks thrown at you. This drained blood, which is what powers the disciplines. Worse, if these NPCs has blood vials (aka blood potions) they would immediately use it to spam more clerity and potence. This was SO FUCKING IRRITATING because I always prefer to save disciplines against tough enemies, not mooks.
This is one of the reasons I quit the game less than halfway through

This is why I quit: I couldn't take NPC's always being out of blood. A lot of it I liked, such as the point-buy leveling, story, some combat elements, and the unusual magic items. But after a while, I realized it just wasn't fun creeping around to find blood when in the next fight, the NPC's would blow it all immediately.

 

[aron searle]

I don't remember the NPC's blood management being a problem, maybe that's because I stuck all the good gear on my character, and for the most part ignored the NPC allies, to long ago to remember, and I don't want to replay the game as I suspect rose tinted glasses etc (keep the memory pure).

 

[Grim Monk]

Here is something that bothers me now that I think about it:

How did Vukodlak and Anezka get out of the ruins of Vysehrad Castle, and how did Streicher escape getting trapped...

I mean Christof ends up trapped under the rubble for 900 years until he is found by the Society of Leopold.
And according to the reports you find in the SoL Headquarters the ruins were undisturbed and had magic wards set upon them to prevent the followers of Vukodlak touching them.

Yet Vukodlak has been out and about over the years making multiple attempts to wake up (foiled by Avezka), and even got his moved body over to the New World in the late 1800s.

Also, if why was Vukodlak even interested in the ruins of Vysehrad, and why did he need that earth?
He seem like he was already pretty well set up in New York.

And was Vysehrad even on his “native soil”, one of his titles is "Scourge of the Carpathians", and from what I can research IRL Prague and Vysehrad don't fall within the Carpathian region.

Also, if I recall correctly the notes of Libussa actually say that Prague was their second base of operations after they had to flee from his feudal domains to escape the wrath of the other Voivodes who cursed him.