Game News Oblivion - the best game evar. No, seriously.

[Bradylama]

I think I read somewhere that it recently did away with giving any scores at all for reviews, which is pretty cool. But I haven't read it for a number of years now.

It's very cool. What's even better are the negative responses they get from people complaining about how they didn't buy the magazine to read, but to look at game scores.

PCGW doesn't get it right all the time, but they're straightforward enough to encourage me to get a subscription. I mean, they gave a glowing Galciv 2 review, so it can't be all bad, right?

 

[Ladonna]

Over here PC Powerplay is the big boy in PC gaming. I used to subscibe to it years ago but its gone downhill over the years.

It, too, has fallen for the 'Oblivion is the greatest game' hype as well, and I blame this on the RPG writers there now. There was a guy name David Wildgoose who really understood what the elements of a good RPG was, naturally he has vanished. They have one guy left who does decent reviews, Nathan Cocks, and he usually gets the crap games to review.

The others are not hopeless, I just feel like they should be reviewing different genres to Roleplaying. The Shiny bug seems to have bitten them on the arse and given them a nasty disease.

I think the saddest thing about this happening with Gaming magazines is the fact that many younger people listen to these guys/gals opinions and generally believe what they say. If they say its good to be lead by a leash while watching the soil erode, the kids will parrot it.

If a magazine (or indeed any game reviewing site worth its salt) wants to be taken seriously, it needs writers who really enjoy a certain genre/s.

Committed RPG player, FPS player, RTS player, Online gamer, Old school Strat/wargamer, Adventure lover, etc. They need someone from all walks who has been there and done that. Silly really.

 

[Bradylama]

You mean like how PC Gamer had Chuck Osborne (their Action Columnist) review Vampire?

 

[Data4]

The problem I'm seeing, especially with idiots like Desslock, is that they know damn well what makes a good ROLEPLAYING GAME, but choose selective idiocy by totally overlooking the lack of roleplaying in games like Oblivion on one hand (usually the one having a wank), and on the other talking about how great a RPG these same games are. I mean, what the fuck? It's almost like they're reverting to the naive "You PLAY a ROLE in the GAME" definition of RPG, and it just lends credence to the theory that wherever a game journalist sits, there's a game publisher with a hand up his ass.

-D4

 

[Cycloptis]

PC Gamer UK too? I was under the impression that they were decent. I guess I heard wrong.

 

[denizsi]

PCGW doesn't get it right all the time, but they're straightforward enough to encourage me to get a subscription. I mean, they gave a glowing Galciv 2 review, so it can't be all bad, right?

I'd believe that if the developer/publisher is ready to pay a hefty sum just for advertising -probably trusting that the mag in question will or does already rate their game highly-, then the mags overrate the scores to keep the money coming. If the dev/pub in question isn't in such a position to pay big sums to have ads for their game, then the mag reviews could just as well be honest, in my opinion, unless some bad past experiences with the said dev/pub.

 

[Rat Keeng]

It's funny 'cause it's true.

It's also funny because the game still insists on calling those messages a "Journal", even though the so-called "journal entries" constantly change from being written by the player, to being addressed to the player. Switching back and forth between 1st and 2nd person like that, to me that speaks volumes about how Bethesda prioritise proper writing.

Sure, it's probably not a unique cock-up as such, but Bethesda just manage to show it off as a fucking badge of honour. "Yay, look at me, I also only went to school for 5 years. Fallout 3 writing job, here I come!"

 

[Mantiis]

Like Morrowind, I'm actually enjoying Oblivion for what it is. A mindless romp through dungeons which holds your hand the entire way. I'd give it the award for most obvious message box warnings.

Quest Description: Go to the Where-ever Caves, find the Altar of Whatever and place the Staff of Everscamp on it. This is the only place you can drop the staff.

Message Box when you get to the caves: "You have found the Where-ever Caves, you should go inside."

Message Box when you're almost at the altar which is in no way cleverly hidden in the middle of the only room in the Cave: "The altar must be close by."

Message Box when you enter the room with the altar: "You no longer feel the need to hold onto the Staff of Everscamp."

Message Box when you get to the altar 2 seconds later: "I should place the Staff of Everscamp by the altar."

Message Box after you drop the Staff: "I have dropped the Staff of Everscamp by the altar."

QUEST UPDATED.

Quest Description: "I have dropped the Staff of Everscamp by the altar. I should return to Whomever and tell them I've completed the quest."

Wait so does that mean I finished the quest? Do I need to do anything else in the dungeon? Wait who do I talk to? OMG SLOW DOWN WTF???

Fuck this rpg shit I'll go play Halo

 

[Human Shield]

It's also funny because the game still insists on calling those messages a "Journal", even though the so-called "journal entries" constantly change from being written by the player, to being addressed to the player. Switching back and forth between 1st and 2nd person like that, to me that speaks volumes about how Bethesda prioritise proper writing.

You mean your to-do list isn't written:

I got my paycheck today.
You should deposit it in the bank.
The money feels like it belongs here.
You should go back to work to get more.

 

[Deathy]

Over here PC Powerplay is the big boy in PC gaming. I used to subscibe to it years ago but its gone downhill over the years.

It, too, has fallen for the 'Oblivion is the greatest game' hype as well, and I blame this on the RPG writers there now. There was a guy name David Wildgoose who really understood what the elements of a good RPG was, naturally he has vanished.

Wasn't he the editor at the time that Deus Ex got the same treatment? That's what made me stop buying the magazine.

Good game, sure, but a 98% score on the review, and GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME a few months later, it was not.

 

[EEVIAC]

Wasn't he the editor at the time that Deus Ex got the same treatment? That's what made me stop buying the magazine.

Good game, sure, but a 98% score on the review, and GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME a few months later, it was not.

Yep. Even though he's gone (to a PR job for a games publisher I think) they still go on about Deus Ex as a paragon of "emergent" gameplay and it consistently shows up top 5 in their yearly 100 Greatest Games Ever. They won't admit that DX2 was utter shit or that Oblivion's radiant-NPC's are completely bone-headed either. So yeah, not much has changed. Once they get a hard-on for something they keep beating that meat (Half Life 2 is their other current beau.)

The only good thing about the mag is the two DVD's which is usefull for saps stuck on dial-up like me.

 

[Hazelnut]

PC Gamers UK (the August issue) is under the impression that a game better than <a href=http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm>Oblivion</a> has never been made, which is why it's the #1 game in their Top 100 Games <b>Ever</b> list :

<blockquote>The success - not to mention brilliance - of Oblivion is a vindication of ambition. It says that its worth biting off more than you can easily chew if the morsel is tasty enough. No one else makes games like this.</blockquote>"Trusted by both the games-buying public and the industry to deliver the most authoritative, honest, informative and entertaining reviews, PC Gamer is the ultimate buyer’s guide."

Fuck you VD - I've been trying to forget that they did this since that issue made it's way into my hands. My wife thought i had something stuck in my throat when I got to that bit.

:twisted:

They used to be decent several years ago - rarely led me astray. But no most of the old guard have moved on and reviewers who've probably never heard of the old clasics let alone played them have got the job. Oh, and there's half the number of reviewers that there were a few years ago.

Future Publishing are bastards!

 

[Gambler]

Wasn't he the editor at the time that Deus Ex got the same treatment?

Are you speaking about Deus Ex 1?

Honestly, there are many worse games that get much more hype. Like Syberia. It was a garbage title without plot, setting or decent characters, but it was nominated as a game of the year by pretty much everyone.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

they still go on about Deus Ex as a paragon of "emergent" gameplay

I think that's one of the things that Section8 got in a tizzy with them over. There's absolutely nothing emergent about Deus Ex. There's no action that you can do anywhere in the game that sets off a series of related events that changes things around you.

 

[stargelman]

I think this is a two part problem.

One part of the problem is that Mr. PR knows a lot of people in the gaming press because that's where he's coming from. So they probably want to help their buddy out, and he's probably called a lot of them for support prior to the release. I mean he must've been busy doing something

That aside, I'm almost certain with that amount of absolutely raving reviews that a decent amount of cash has changed owner. That or other presents. Well ok I'm not certain about the cash bit, but definitely lots of presents. I know that because as a former Bethsoft fanboy, I possess some of these items, and I know some people that own a few items too. Lets just say the cogs have been oiled pretty well.

 

[Gambler]

There's no action that you can do anywhere in the game that sets off a series of related events that changes things around you.

The scary thing is that I'm 80% sure you're not being sarcastic.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Harvey Smith talks about emergent gameplay and similar matters here.

People sometimes give the LAM ladders you could create as examples of emergent gameplay, but I've heard others say that rather than simply being something the designers did not expect, they considered it problematic and sought to get rid of it in the next game.

 

[Direwolf]

There's no action that you can do anywhere in the game that sets off a series of related events that changes things around you.

The scary thing is that I'm 80% sure you're not being sarcastic.

You're saying that he is wrong or are you being sarcastic as well? AFAIR there is only 1 (one) point in the entire game where you can actually affect things. 99.99% of the game is on the rails.
PC Powerplay sucks though. It was pretty good up until 3 years ago, when they changed to less text - more screenshots type. Still a good bathroom read, but then again, anything is a good bathroom read.

 

[Gambler]

Deus Ex had three endings, so there have to be at least two points that change something.

Therefore this statement is BS:

There's no action that you can do anywhere in the game that sets off a series of related events that changes things around you.

99.99% of the game is on the rails.

There are plenty of small choices. And considering the fact it's a story-heavy action game with RPG elements, it not bad at all.

 

[Slylandro]

Deus Ex had three endings, so there have to be at least two points that change something.

I don't know exactly how many endings Deus Ex had since I only played it once, but from a logical point of view your statement is incorrect. There can be one point with three different branches that lead to three different endings. Two points aren't necessary.

 

[Mantra_n]

deus ex was pretty much linear with an option that gave you 3 different endings based on how you went about completing the last taks in the game... u could save right before it and just replay it 2 extra times and u'd have all the endings. it was a fun game though

 

[Data4]

deus ex was pretty much linear with an option that gave you 3 different endings based on how you went about completing the last taks in the game... u could save right before it and just replay it 2 extra times and u'd have all the endings. it was a fun game though

Jesus, man, if you're going to make yourself out to be an internet moron, at least be consistent. Is it "u" or "you"?

-D4

 

[Twinfalls]

Jesus christ, Gambler you are a dumb fucker. Look at Saint's comment:

they still go on about Deus Ex as a paragon of "emergent" gameplay

I think that's one of the things that Section8 got in a tizzy with them over. There's absolutely nothing emergent about Deus Ex. There's no action that you can do anywhere in the game that sets off a series of related events that changes things around you.

Do you know what 'emergent' gameplay is? It is a system which enables gameplay - obstacles and solutions - to form on the fly, instances of which the developers themselves may not have specifically foreseen.

Deus Ex is NOT an example of this.

And 'Syberia is a game without plot, characters and setting'? R00fles!

 

[galsiah]

...instances of which the developers themselves may not have specifically foreseen.

So Oblivion is the most emergent game ever .

Seriously though, emergence is very subjective. What is clear from the rules or unforseeable depends on the insight of the observer/designer.

As for Deus Ex, I'd say that there probably were some cases of emergent behaviour (or lack of developer foresight).

For example:
Using the explosive enemies to blow lockers open without needing your own explosive.
Climbing buildings using two proximity mines (standing on one, picking up and replacing the other...).

Those aren't amazingly impressive, and the second isn't desirable. However, they are emergent in the sense that they arise from a combination of factors, and weren't intentionally designed that way.

I'd have thought the first is fairly obvious, and the second amounts to saying: wow - there are bugs in our game we didn't anticipate. (Apparently, the developers knew about neither).

I certainly agree that Deus Ex isn't a good example of emergence though. Every "emergent" factor I know of in Deus Ex has a pretty local influence, and could be predicted easily enough. [there's nothing really different between the above examples, and pushing around + jumping on and off of crates. All are predictable, but "emergent" - the crates situation is just that much more obvious.]

It did have a few small non-linear aspects. E.g. whether Paul lives or dies, whether the Doctor fellow follows you. Both of these have minor medium term consequences. Better than nothing, but not worth much celebration. [Paul living or dying doesn't really add much though, since either the player will presume that he has to die (thinking that there is no choice), or he'll choose to stick around and help so that he survives. It can add replay value if you didn't save him the first time, but doesn't do anything for the first playthrough].

I wouldn't really call the three endings non-linear, since the game doesn't go on from that point. It's nice to be able to decide how things end, but there are no branches, since the game is over.

 

[Twinfalls]

Bugs and exploits do not in any way whatsoever count as emergent, Galsiah - which you've recognised anyway.

In focusing just on solutions (and usually just low-level tactics), people miss the key, most desirable aspect of 'emergent' - obstacles and problems being created on-the-fly. Goals changing. Conflicts between parties or factions causing unforeseen, even intractable, hurdles for the player.

This is why Saint talks about chains of events around you - it's not just choosing a fucking branch, that's not emergence. You must be able to influence a shitload more variables (which themselves have influence) than tactical shooters like DE or go-anywhere shooters like Oblivion currently offer, for the tag to begin to apply.