Elder Scrolls So why is Elder Scrolls lore so interesting?

[TheCatsofSanktPetersburg]

The sources of inspiration. Some of the people behind the lore really know their stuff. Some knowledge of Eastern cultures and religions will help you spot them.

I'd also argue that in the case of the dunmer culture, the sources of inspiration are so varied that it creates a sort of inspirational ambiguity. I'm going to pick a terrible example here, but the orcs from Warcraft 3 are carbon copy of African tribesmen, and that's about it, that's all the cultural equivalents they have to real world models.

But the dunmer have both a tribal society, a certain jewish xenophobia, south italian numismatics, bedouin lifestyle, an honor code, sharp class distinctions, strict religious orthodoxy, monastic institutions and pilgrimages, saint worship, etc.

While the nords are clearly inspired by scandinavian culture, the dunmer sources for inspiration are so varied that it leads to a sort of blurring of the line between the real world (inspiration) and the fiction (outcome), because there is no single equivalent in the real world for the dunmer culture.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

The sources of inspiration. Some of the people behind the lore really know their stuff. Some knowledge of Eastern cultures and religions will help you spot them. Here's one:

Ring a bell? This is Harihara, a deity that combines Vishnu (the blue part) and Shiva (the white part). You can tell where the inspiration for Vivec came from. But there's more. In Hinduism, Vishnu is a figure linked to maintenance, or preservation, whereas Shiva is linked to destruction (and hence innovation). This is mirrored in TES lore by Anu (Stasis) and Padomay (Change).

I would therefore venture that there is another meaning behind Vivec's two colors, other than simply "half Chimer and half Dunmer". He has achieved CHIM, hence he manipulates both stasis and change, maintenance and destruction. He is the one who has been preserving Dunmer culture for so long, and yet he is the one who will destroy it (Landfall), as he lays it out in his 36 Lessons.

I just wrote this off the top of my head. It just goes to show how deep the lore is if you venture below the surface. I guess that's why I love the TES world, with all its flaws and crappy games.

ur a good poster son, stick around

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

Yes, I'd say The Elder Scrolls is so "alien" and esoteric precisely because it is so to a Western ideology that dominates today.

Someone without any knowledge about Eastern philosophy or concepts will basically look at TES and say to himself "whoa, in comparison to other fantasy, that one doesn't take inspiration from clear, distinguishable archetypes, like i.e. Orcs do from Mongols etc." As much as balls Kirkbride is, that is not really the case. For example, the concept of universe shaped like the Wheel with eight spokes or Aedra/Daedra/etc. being simply the aspects of the "hidden" Godhead, the Dreamer, seem very alien, but those are basic concepts in the East. When you know a thing or two about i.e. Hinduism and Buddhism in regard to the metaphysical aspect of TES lore that is the foundation to many aspects of it, everything becomes much more distinguishable and familiar.

As a consequence of its Eastern inspirations, the i.e. metaphysical or cosmological aspect of the setting also plays more vital and active role compared to most of "Western" fantasies, further reinforcing the feeling of alienation to a generic American/European playing it. Also, Lyric Suite

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

14/20 in Morrowind Quiz. Scored 20/20 in Skyrim one

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

In Hinduism, Vishnu is a figure linked to maintenance, or preservation, whereas Shiva is linked to destruction (and hence innovation). This is mirrored in TES lore by Anu (Stasis) and Padomay (Change).

Universe's duality manifesting itself in various aspects is also present in other philosophies, to name Yin and Yang as the most obvious example (but in various Western ones as well), and not necessarily relating to dichotomy only at the highest level. Which also is recognized by TES lore (at least Akatosh/Lorkhan, Masser and Secunda).

 

[DraQ]

There are many things I love about TES lore, Morrowind's in particular:

• Strictly in-character knowledge - not only there are many sides to a story, but you, as a player, are not exempt from limitations of the characters inhabiting that world - if they can't know for sure, neither can you.
• Politics and conflicting agendas - you don't feel like hero vanquishing evil in a fairy tale, you're a guy who tries to make do in a very grey VS grey world and you may have to get your hands dirty in order to achieve anything. Even if you do happen to fall into some sort of prophesized hero niche, things rarely are what they could be expected to be.
• Alien, non- generic stuff.
• Distinct, fleshed out cultures.
• Integration of history and lore with actual gameplay.
• Non-arbitrary metaphysics - it's neither mundane, nor completely unbound by any rules, both of which would make it trite.
• Mostly defined, cohesive geographical and historical frame - it doesn't feel kitchensink-y this way as it doesn't permit just throwing in new shit or at least makes it difficult, expansion must be done mostly inwards
  
• Lack of clearly defined good and evil, having to cope with a lot of stuff that is objectionable to a modern western sensibilities
• Relative lack or deemphasis of "monster races" that are staple of nearly any fantasy setting. Thanks to this TES doesn't feel like your usual monster genocide simulator.
• Great amount of shown-not-told information, often hidden in plain sight, ability to explore the lore by speculating, paying attention to details and seeing if it clicks together

I'm always left bereft of words when trying to explain to someone why I find TES lore so appealing. It's hard to weigh or judge the qualities that make this fantasy world stand out so much so I’m making this thread to compile a list of arguments.

• Different interpretations

There’s never just one side to a story. Propaganda is nothing new to fantasy, indeed a lot of settings use different points of view to keep its audience on edge, but it’s very rare that I’ve seen it used so effectively.

I think the main reason for this is because TES doesn’t use propaganda to punish the player/reader for being gullible (like finding out that the gargoyles weren’t evil in Ultima 6). And it’s never brought about as a great revelation that no one knew, but rather it’s out there in the open and you are simply asked to believe whatever you wish.

• Religion and syncretism.

There isn't much I can say about this, other that the use of syncretism throughout Tamrielic history really reinforces the idea that the gods are real for these people, rather than an artificial decoration glued on top to reflect or simulate the real world.

OTOH, having religious monomyth common to most cultures only highlights how much of the information about deities is a matter of interpretation - it makes them more real, but simultaneously far more distant and abstract than pantheons in other game settings.

• It encourages scrutiny

For every book that states a fact about life on Tamriel there are 10 that act as commentary on that subject. The answers given are rarely factual, but often metaphorical and vague, leaving a lot up to interpretation. And it's really easy to interpret things in TES, it encourages and rewards your scrutiny. TES is more a world of questions than it is of answers.

Speaking of TES lore...
http://www.shortlist.com/tech/gaming/the-ultimate-morrowind-quiz
I got 14/20, and I've recently been playing it. Who remembers stuff like what people in the Balmora mage's guid are called?

12/20 though I was blindly answering more than half of them.

18/20

Drat!

 

[Metro]

Never cared for it, myself.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

19/20 on the Morrowind Quiz. Missed the one on the Vampiric Ring.

 

[Metro]

7/20 and I guess for over half of them. 16/20 on Skyrim, though (still had to guess)!

 

[Commissar Draco]

Well technically you have to use 1 spell before you are admitted

I was a Mage like you then Took Persuasion check in my knee instead. MK got Mad after Tolder Treatment of his life work; Skyrim is enjoyable LARP and HIKE simulator after installing tons of patches and mods but it does insults your intelligence with PC not knowing what Blades are even after reading a book about them in game. What is a Paladin? grade derp Comrades.

 

[AW8]

disappearance of the dwarves

 

[DraQ]

Well technically you have to use 1 spell before you are admitted

I was a Mage like you then Took Persuasion check in my knee instead.

Don't you need persuasion somewhere over elventy for that to even work?

 

[Turisas]

disappearance of the dwarves

Dwemer.

 

[DraQ]

I clicked out before even checking what I got wrong.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The Elder Scrolls has lore?

 

[DraQ]

The Elder Scrolls has lore?

Joined:
Jan 2, 2013

 

[Delterius]

I clicked out before even checking what I got wrong.

Well, I'm surprised you didn't ace it. I got 12/20 but I only played Morrowind once

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The Elder Scrolls has lore?

Joined:
Jan 2, 2013

Sorry, I didn't know that I have to return back in time to tell myself to register on a fucking message board to get additional pair of dicks to stuff into your mouth.

 

[DraQ]

Ok, I retook the test selecting the same answers as before. Seems I got Uthol and Odros mixed up and forgot where in Ald'Ruhn is Hassour Zainsubanni.

The Elder Scrolls has lore?

Joined:
Jan 2, 2013

Sorry, I didn't know that I have to return back in time to tell myself to register on a fucking message board to get additional pair of dicks to stuff into your mouth.

Additional? You'd just have to take out all those you're already sucking on, mister.

 

[Spectacle]

The Elder Scrolls has lore?

 

[theSavant]

TES-Lore isn't that interesting itself. But what makes it great is that you can mostly choose which lore you want to follow. So you are not interested in the stories from "Person X"? Well then ignore him, or go to "Person Y".

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Additional? You'd just have to take out all those you're already sucking on, mister.

What dicks are you talking about, my dear potato friend?

 

[Heresiarch]

I've never played Arena, but were the majority of "general" lore books/stories established in Daggerfall? Especially after checking the Imperial Library there's no mentioning of Arena books at all.

My personal favorite was the short story Mirror, the blocking (?) skill book story. Another one is the story of the axe skill book. Heck, almost all the skillbooks are worth a read.

 

[abnaxus]

90% of Morrowind books was hauled over from Daggerfall. But quite some Daggerfall books were never hauled over.

My favourite Daggerfall book is one about life of Makela Leki (the strongest character ever in TES universe, according to Kirkbride).

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_The_Memory_Stone_of_Makela_Leki

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

90% of Morrowind books was hauled over from Daggerfall. But quite some Daggerfall books were never hauled over.

My favourite Daggerfall book is one about life of Makela Leki (the strongest character ever in TES universe, according to Kirkbride).

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_The_Memory_Stone_of_Makela_Leki

Perhaps you phrased this wrong? The majority of the books in Morrowind were new for Morrowind. Nearly all of the Daggerfall and Battlespire Books can be found in Morrowind but together they account for at most maybe 20% of the total book count.