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Volourn + NWN2: A Single Journey, Many Spoilers, and Boredom

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
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! SPOILER ALERT ! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! SPOILER ALERT !



You. have. been. warned. You. have. been. warned.



! SPOILER ALERT! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! SPOILER ALERT!



Now, on to the impressions... This will be long... If too boring, don't read and move on to next NWN2 thread.... Thanks....




Part 1 - The Drama Unfolds
-------------------------------


I love NWN1. Everyone knows that. I thought the OC was good (around 75%ish); but everyone steadfastly believes I think it was perfect (ie. 100%, a rating I have given ZERO games). My expectations for NWN2 were really simple. I wanted more of Neverwinter that was updated for 2006. I wanted it to be better. I don't want comaprisons to DEAD games. This impression will have no referrals to DEAD games. Period.

Anyways, I originally preorder the LE; but release day game and my EBs didn't have it in stock so I switched to the normal versionthen threw the leftover cash on a preorder GOTHIC 3.

I hurry home excited as a kiddie, and that excitement ends up costing me $40.... :o


Part 2 - The Wait Is Almost Over
--------------------------------------

I tear the box to shreds (not really; but sounds cool if I say I did :geek: ), and eagerly go to install the DVD (yes, DVD). That's when disaster struck. For the first time ever, I decide to use my arms as a baseball bat and swung around and twanked my glass holding pop right onto my keyboard (and, a little bit on my brand new mouse). I hurridly clean it up; but als it was to no avail. Mere hours later, my keyboard craps out and starts being stupid. The space button, for example, has to have the poo pounded out of it in order to work. I can barely play the game due to the lack of the mouse so I am forced to go AI with companions so I don't have to to use the spacebar. This problem is fixed today(on Friday) as I now have a brand new fancy $40 keyboard. Yay for me!

The install itself was easy as pie. It was over quick with no problems at all. I download the patch no questions asked.... and wait... and wait... I swear the patch took longer to download and install then it took to install the game even with Broadband. Owwy!

Meanwhile, I take a look at the manual and strategy guide for character stuff to pass the time. Many is solidly sized with relevant information. It has its share of errata but ah well. 'Tis is life. The strategy guide is cool. Over time 9while playing the game) I notice there isn't a section solely for joinable npcs. That would have been nice.


Part 3 - Character Creation
-------------------------------

It's NWN2. It's D&D 3.5. You get what you expect. It's set up pretty much exactly like NWN1 except with new classes, races, skills (and some shockingly removed, booo), feats, and so on. Everything is logially placed with solid detail much like NWN1. Very little complaints here. In fact, only one. Dwarven bears, are by and large horrid. Other than that, this part is absolutely beautifully perfect.

I made a dwarven male who is 88 years old. A fighter/cleric (well.. will be) of Berronar Truesilver. He's LG, and weilds a dwarven waraxe (duh!) and shield. feats chosen are Luck of Heroes, and WF. He is Devout as per his background. It kinda hurts his diplomacy and with his average charisma it makes it harder to make him the focused diplomat I want. The stats at start are S14, D12, C16, I10, W15, and C12.


Part 4 - Stability Issues
---------------------------

This is perhaps the most stable PC game I have ever played. It has never crashed, and runs smooth overall. There are some bugs like my attack bonus showing up incorrectly on the character sheet. this occured sometimes in NWN1 as well. Not much to complain about here.


Part 5 - Graphics, Music, & Other Frivilous Things tm.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Overall, graphics are good and crisp. I'm at max settings and the game still runs rather smoothly. Monsters are usually nice to look at, and character mdoels are cool. Not much clipping either. I'm not a big fan of the iventory icons as they simply don't appear clear enough to always determine exactly what it is. The FVX for spells are solid if not spectacular with some exemptions which look fantastic. Animations - battle or otherwise - are simply not up to par.

Music is good to great and a few crappy ones. Tgis is true for both the new and old music. Same with voice overs. Some of the voiceacting is really good; some not so good.


Part 6 - Control, Control, Control
-------------------------------------

For the most part it basically controls like NWN1. Point and click to go where you want. Right click on targets to get more options than the basic one. Key thing to note is make sure to use the option to speed the right click up or else you'll just waste time. Quick menu is like NWN1 but with more slots. It's too bad that unlike NWN1; you cna't put everything in it. I'd rather have spotaneous casting on my radial menu than 'quickspell'. Quick spell kind of annoys me. The mode bar is a very nice feature, and overall it works perfect. Things like power attack don't always seem to stay right. Minor annoyance though since it still is an improvement over NWN1.

Now for camera control. *shudder* Even with 4 different view options (two are complete poo); they still irk me. After playing the game as much as I have, I'm a little more used to it; but still.. not cool.

Combat control is easy. Basically point and click to target foes or allies for the most part. Combat is exactly like NWN1 except you have an option to control allies, and you should overall use. The AI is bascially at the level of HOTU. Don't expect much more functionality even with the tool 'Puppet Mode' options. LOL Obsidian. I still find that hilarious! :D

Another big beef is the inbaility to put duelweapons or weapon + shield pairs in a quick slot forcing you to enter mele to readd the second piece of equipment. Urgh.


Part 7 - A Mixture Of Stuff
-----------------------------

Inventory is alright. Outside of the item icons that is. Usuually easy to transfer things. I still think 4 inventory screens per character is way too much. One would should suffice. I had the same beef with NWN1. I like the fact that actual D&D encumbrance is now in as you get weighed down ebfore even before max as per the rules. I wonder if you cna't move at all if maxed out. I hope so.

Selling is fine, and I'm used to it. I just wish they wouldn't bother asking you if you wanted to sell soemthing. If I right clicked an object while at a store than click on sell; then duh of course it means I wanna sell it. What a wasted question.

Things I kinda miss is no discipline (the game handles fine without it though so not too bad). The lack of the called shot feats *is* NOT cool, however. It gives warriors even less options in combat. My biggest shock, hwoever, is the lack of animal empathy skill for druids and rangers. Urgh.

Tower shields are even uberer giving +4 ac normally not +3 as in NWN1. However, side thing (not sure if it's a bug or not), only warrior types get it as a feat. Why is the question. Weird. Some cool exotic weapons are gone mostnoteably the double bladed axe and sword. I also think the whip didn't make the cut. Gah.

I haven't tried crafting; but I intend to eventually. Heh. More on that later.


Part 7 - Prologue: It was good. It reminded me a lot of NWN1's. It bascially tests you at various skills you'll need in game (magic, combat, roguish, and archery) in a tournament to be cvowned best in town. You win (I did); you get a cup that lets you cast cure light wounds x2 a day. useful early in game. Not so much later. The townfolk are an interetsing lot. Dialogue skills pop up now and again; but nothing shockingly cool happens with them. Your mentor is a doof. I cna't believe this is the punbk that 'raised' my character. LOL The two prologue companions are pretty fleshed out despite being shorttimers. I'm actually disaapointed they weren't amongst the main joinables. I like them both espicially the girl. You gain 2 levels in this thing. Doesn't bother me; but I'm surprised more aren't whining about it like they did when the NWN OC did it. The thing with the pig was well done. LOL Enlarge spell. Kinda obvious though. I loved your 'archrivals' too. And, the mage (girlfriend's master) had some great lines as well. Overall, it was well done.


Part 8 - The Story: Nothing special. really, it reminds me of NWN1 (amongst other games). Your village/school/area is attacked; you are called on to play hero by everyone. I though Obsidian wasn't going that route; but you are pretty much chosen as the Supreme One from the start except by maybe a handful of people you are always complimented. In essence, everyone knows the base story. Big past war, mommy died, foster father raised you, shards split up, githyanki and goons attack village, girlfriend dies (sad), foster father tells you to get lost (seek out THA shards, my boy, seek out THA shards), childhood friend stays behind, constantly ambushed, find out the Shadow King is ALIVE (dun dun dun and doah) and still plotting Bad Stuff tm, arrive in NW and collect second shard. It's decently written; but not spectacular.


Part 9 - Companions: First off, I really loved the two companions who join you in the prologue as mentioned above. I wish they were with you forever.

Khelgar the dwarf is awesome, and wants to be a monk. He's all about violence (making him a poor potential monk). I nlove his flat out denials when you sadly inform him that monks aren't usually into wanton violence. Sadly, his alignment is NG so he seems to be out of luck. LOL Totally great character.

Neeshka is a whiney two bit slime bugget who I wish i never saved from the scum who wanted to murder her. Her skills as a rogue are sueful; but outside of that all she adds is a whiney attitude who whines about everything even others when they aren't even whining! Her cracked up voice over actress doesn't help neither. I hate her, and not in a good way. She frggin' whined when I agreed to find two missing children nbot that long after I pulled herbutt from the fire. Short term memory or selfish B? You decide. She's an Imoen wannabe but without the freshness, the coolness, or the sweetness. I wish I could give her the boot. For someone who whines about others jduging ehr based on their race; she certainly does it a lot.

Elanee is perhaps the best ever Elven druid I ever saw (just as cool as Jaheria but Jaheira was only half druid). She's courteous, cool as a cucumber, and sweet as heck. I loved her reaction when the subject of children came up. The interatcion between her and the PC (male only I guess?) is HYSTERICAL. I LOL just thinking about.

I've seen a couple of other joinables but they haven'ty yet offered to join up. Sand the Wizard is a friend of your 'uncle'. I like him thus far. He's an alchemicist by trade. The other, Bishop the Ranger, simply ignored me completely. R00fles! I'll ignore him too when the times comes... if I can...

Overall, not a bad lot. Pretty darn good minus the tiefling witch. Not too much to say about the influence system. It's just there like any game that does the same thing but doesn't have a fancy name. No weird quirks of it yet.


Part 10 - Quests, Choices, and Skill Checks
--------------------------------------------------

Quest ar eoverall cool even though the travel is limited. Even with the world map and optional areas (the lizard cave and bandits I think), the areas seem limited movement wise comapred to NWN1. It seems only a few paths to go on. It's double frustrating because the area seems to continue on even when it doesn't. Areas are also rather small. Smaller than most NWN1 areas to be sure or faster to cover. Hmmm.

Quests tend to have different ways to approach them. Usually by some form of diplomact and bluff). My favorite quests involve npcs that continually turn up (a certain couple and a certain merchant - no, not Deekin as I have not seen him. The war between the Rightful Commander of a fort and his replacement was nice too.

Skills are used alot, and usually matter. However, a few times, it doesn't seem to matter if you fail since you accomplish your goal anyways - ie. I tried to broker a truce between a lizardfolk tribe and a watertown. I failed both diplomacy checks yet I still managed to convince them to stop attacks on each other. Why bother with checks if it ultimately doesn't matter? Those are rare though, I THINK.


Part 11 - PhAt Lewt
----------------------

WOO HOO for ph@t lewt! At level 7, I have +2 waraxe, fullplate, and a tower shield +1 giving me 25ac. Pretty darn good. My other loot is good too espically the two shard I have found. One gives me +10 hit points, and the other 5 reduction vs two elements (fire and acid IIRC). They need to simply be in the inventory to take effect. My allies are similarily equipped. I got uopwards of 10k gold too. Potions are slightly less rare than NWN1; but still a lot. Not too surprising.


Part 12 - Combat!
---------------------

It works like NWN1 except with companion control if you wish. Go that way if you can (no keyboard problems, heh). Combat is cool. It is rather easy for me. I've only had a TPK occur once, and that's based on my foolishness tossed in with some bad luck. I got murdered by the Bandit Leader (NOT chief), and two bandits because I hadn't rested in like forever and they did something like a half dozen crits. Outside of that, it's been mostly a cakewalk. The stupid rogue ditz has fallen unconcious several times. My characters been close to falling under due to running over traps from time to time and I don't keep up with healing as much as I probably should since most enemies have a hard time even hitting me. Heh. Hopefully, the challenge picks up. The combat *is* fun *if* you like NWN1 + full party control though (even without playing like NWN1 it is fun and less time wasteful too). Good stuff.


Part 11 - Overall
-------------------

Don't read my post as being truly negative. Overall, I REALLY like this game. It's not without its fault. The story while not AWESOME is *still* good, and the character dynamics really make it worthwhile. Atmosphere is really good at times. The overall package is fantastic with great stability. I'd rate the OC (thus far) higher than NWN OC because of enhanced ally interaction, and better than KOTOR2 because of better combat (and possibly even KOTOR1 too). The NWN OC's story is on par (possibkly superior even); but the enhanced companions,and advanced skill useage gives NWN2 OC the edge. Good job Obsidian.


Part 12 - The Future tm.
---------------------------

I will continue to play the OC, and update my feelings based on that. I will also be doing crafting so I will finally be able to comment on that. I'll also try out the DMC, released toolset, and MP so I can give my thoughts on those. Hopefully, the toolset guidebook will make it to my EB store. I sure hope so. Expect future updates as well as my opinion on what should/could be added in future expansions, updates, and patches.


I will NOT apologize for spoilers or even length. I will, however, apologize for boring you with my 100 platinum pieces of my aberrant thoughts and opinions on this game.


Great game, Obs!


Volourn.



LONG LIVE NWN1! LONG LIVE NWN SERIES! LONG LIVE NWN2!
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
R00fles!

Too bad this isn't a 'news' post so your logic is illogical.
 

filogreek

Scholar
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
114
Skills are used alot, and usually matter. However, a few times, it doesn't seem to matter if you fail since you accomplish your goal anyways - ie. I tried to broker a truce between a lizardfolk tribe and a watertown. I failed both diplomacy checks yet I still managed to convince them to stop attacks on each other. Why bother with checks if it ultimately doesn't matter? Those are rare though, I THINK.

Would you have gotten extra XP or some other reward if the checks succeeded? Otherwise there really does not seem to be much of a point :x Try the same situation again with a higher skill level. Oh come on, won't take that long :P
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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Dunno. I'll check when I get around to playing through again. Still silly to fail diplomatic checks only to get them to do what you want anyways.
 

Nicolai

DUMBFUCK
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Re: Volourn + NWN2: A Single Journey, Many Spoilers, and Bor

Volourn said:
She's an Imoen wannabe but without the freshness, the coolness, or the sweetness.

You've lost it.
 

Voss

Erudite
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
1,770
Maggot-folk playing MF said:
ower shields are even uberer giving +4 ac normally not +3 as in NWN1. However, side thing (not sure if it's a bug or not), only warrior types get it as a feat. Why is the question. Weird.

This is actually closer to PnP than the way they were done in NWN1. (They should be fighter only, but you may have meant that). +4 AC is correct, too. However wielding one also gives you a -2 to hit (even if you have the proficiency), which may be why your attack bonus isn't 'right'. Take the shield off and see how you attack bonus tallies up.
 

Halenthal

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Messages
145
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Arkansas, of all places
Never thought I'd say this, but...

Thanks Volly, good little impressions review.

I may just have to go pick this game up.

At one point you mentioned wishing to be able to get rid of a party member-can that be done, or are you stuck with them if you choose (I'm assuming choose) to take them with you?
 

Shagnak

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Hey, nice (so far) review, Volourn.

Halenthal said:
Never thought I'd say this, but...

Thanks Volly, good little impressions review.
Well,there is only a few of us here that are aware of it, but Volourn is capable of some considered coherency at times. I've had email communication with him which was considerably more intelligent than his typical forum rantings.

He is capable. Maybe he only applies the effort he considers we are worthy of at the time? :P
 

Blacklung

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Jed said:
Anyone remember how long it took to get to level 7 in Baldur's Gate?

Practically the entire game as I recall. However, most of the game consisted of low level enemies, low amounts of experience, a six person party, and the max level was 11 I believe.

NWN1, thus this one as well, are somewhat shorter but give you more experience, better items, higher leveled monsters, and let you reach a much higher level (25 right?) by the end of the game. I mean come on, if you are suppose to be fighting creatures from other planes and leading the armies of Neverwinter, then it should be assumed that your levels are going to accumulate pretty quickly. Good thing? I think it depends on personal preference. Personally I thought BG1 was a bit to slow (and the huge, mostly empty wilderness areas didn't help). I loved the speed of BG2 and IWD2 though (the latter more in that regard, of course the combat was the focus and quite epic at times...like on that damned bridge).
 

Jed

Cipher
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I see your point about fighting planar beings and leading armies, however I just think that in D&D the low levels are far more interesting and fun than the phat loot munchinkun fests that BioWare & Lackeys have been churning out of late.
 

Limorkil

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
304
Jed said:
Anyone remember how long it took to get to level 7 in Baldur's Gate?

Probably not a realistic comparison. In Baldur's Gate you would get to level 7 about 40%-60% through the game, depending on class, but it used the AD&D XP rules so each level required a lot more XP than the last. For example, a fighter would get to level 7 about halfway through but then would not reach level 8 until much closer to the end. (I think level 8 was maximum for fighters if you had expansion pack). In BG2 you would start at around level 7, so no comparison there.

NWN1 is about the only thing you can compare NWN2 meaningfully. Getting to level 7 was really easy in NWN1 ~ you would get there after only about 10-15% of the game. But if you play solo (no companions) like I do, you start to level up real slow after that. I think I am currently 70% of the way through and I am level 12. It would be higher if I had companions (due to the stupid XP system).

I think NWN1 OC sucks major ass, even though I am determined to finish it one day. (Actually, Chapter 1 sucks, but Chapter 2 was okay.) I have only played it multiplayer a few times and I hated it because people are fucking morons (not the game's fault). I don't plan to get NWN2 until it is in the bargain bin.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"This is actually closer to PnP than the way they were done in NWN1."

No. Not unless 3.5 has complete changed how the tower shields work. And, no, this isn't why by character sheet attack bonus is off. It's off because it's a bug. How do I know? Because, in the combat screen, I'm getting my correct attack bonus.


Halenthal: I believe some npcs you can refuse to join; but I think once you get them to join there's no getting rid of them. Maybe, they'll leave on their own volition if you piss them off enough. Thankfully, I'll eventually get more companions so I at least don't have to actually have the bitch in my actual party. LOL


Limorkil: You are a fuckface.


The Good People: Thanks for the somewhat compliments.



:D
 
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Sylvanus said:
Jed said:
Anyone remember how long it took to get to level 7 in Baldur's Gate?

Practically the entire game as I recall. However, most of the game consisted of low level enemies, low amounts of experience, a six person party, and the max level was 11 I believe.

NWN1, thus this one as well, are somewhat shorter but give you more experience, better items, higher leveled monsters, and let you reach a much higher level (25 right?) by the end of the game. I mean come on, if you are suppose to be fighting creatures from other planes and leading the armies of Neverwinter, then it should be assumed that your levels are going to accumulate pretty quickly. Good thing? I think it depends on personal preference. Personally I thought BG1 was a bit to slow (and the huge, mostly empty wilderness areas didn't help). I loved the speed of BG2 and IWD2 though (the latter more in that regard, of course the combat was the focus and quite epic at times...like on that damned bridge).

Yes, but let's look at it like this.
BG2 starts at level 7, as I recall. Therefore, the developer assumed that level 7 was the average BG endgame level.
NWN2 has you REACHING LEVEL 3 in the TUTORIAL.
 

Texas Red

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Admiral jimbob said:
Yes, but let's look at it like this.
BG2 starts at level 7, as I recall. Therefore, the developer assumed that level 7 was the average BG endgame level.
NWN2 has you REACHING LEVEL 3 in the TUTORIAL.

Well, you leave as a level 3 from the tutorial of the first NWN as well.

In BG 2 classes had different numbers. A druid had a max level of 14, where as a cleric 22.
 
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The Walkin' Dude said:
Admiral jimbob said:
Yes, but let's look at it like this.
BG2 starts at level 7, as I recall. Therefore, the developer assumed that level 7 was the average BG endgame level.
NWN2 has you REACHING LEVEL 3 in the TUTORIAL.

Well, you leave as a level 3 from the tutorial of the first NWN as well.

Still no excuse.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
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Voss's first impressions were way better. Volourn, you are way too self-absorbed. That is to say, you suck.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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Messages
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"Well, you leave as a level 3 from the tutorial of the first NWN as well. "

Yeah,a nd everyone whined about it. Most of the same people say hardly anything about the fact that it is exactly the same as in NWN2.

Thanks, Twinfalls. If you prefer Voss's bullshittic lies then be my guest.
 

Jed

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Volourn said:
Yeah,a nd everyone whined about it. Most of the same people say hardly anything about the fact that it is exactly the same as in NWN2.
I just did, but since it was marginally subtle, it went straight over your BioWare-addled head like a 747.
 

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