[LP CYOA] 傳

[Stygian Lurker]

I vote for continuing like this

 

[Absinthe]

Reloading at the fortress sounds really bad. Being poisoned benefited us just as much as it inhibited us.

1. It concealed our allegiance from that Gao guy
2. It restored our inner strength
3. It partially healed us

Uh, no. I disagree with this "being poisoned helped as much as it inhibited." I'm pretty sure it sucked.

1. As I've said before, there were solid odds Gao Ying would uncover our allegiance anyway once he investigates our connection to the palace. If he does actually work for Shun, which seems likely enough, then it doesn't even help (and it didn't - poison needle).
2. Yes, but his inner strength was going to recover eventually anyway. And this was at the expense of his anti-toad medicine, which means using his Neigong is more dangerous now.
3. It did.

Now here is getting poisoned cost us:

1. Actually progressing the main quest with Chanfeng.
2. Figuring out what happened with Yunzi.
3. Losing almost all our possessions, the Yuchang Sword included, and Zhang Jue said he would kill us if we lost it.

Now here is what continuing here costs us:

1. Meeting with Cao'er.
2. Fire temple challenge & Yunzi's request ("be there").
3. Zhang Jue's challenge
4. Imperial Court rep and whatever punishment is in store for this assassination.

What really screwed us was fighting 100 guys for some random pirates. But whatever. You guys are acting like we've been put in an unwinnable scenario, when really our only fault was choosing the most riskiest, deadliest choices on option and refusing to consider anything we can do to mitigate that risk.

I really don't consider that screwed. Jing having to play with his smarts instead of martial arts was fun. And aside from the temporary stat damage, we got some decent loot, that Reikan technique which really helped develop Jing in a different direction, 100 respect with the Miyamoto, Shun got new allies, and we established that Jing is not a filthy coward, which was a rep he was getting.

 

[Baltika9]

treave, howcome we didn't get any unorthodox points for this? This is worth at least one hundred points.

 

[TOME]

I think the reason we keep screwing up is because we don't want to admit we made a mistake before or we blindly believe there is a "right" choice in every vote. We have to learn how to let go, how to lose and cut our losses so that we don't end up in situations like this one. For example, would it have been so bad to admit to Wu brothers that we can't do what was asked of us to get the sword and the manual back and them skip town?

 

[Baltika9]

If it fails us Wudang's quest, ruins our rep with them, makes us appear a less formidable fighter and makes this whole detour a giant waste of time, then yes, it would have been terrible.

 

[Absinthe]

Oh ffs, why not just start a completely new character and reroll the whole thing so that we don't make any more "mistakes" again, then? Of course all this stuff is going to be clear in hindsight, you aren't always going to be able to do the smartest thing at any given time. Sometimes there are factors that you didn't consider, then you have to deal with a different situation altogether and then find a way to overcome a hurdle - which is far more compelling anyways.

We're talking about going back six updates just because we didn't like how things turned out. The whole point of these CYOA's is that you don't have a crystal ball, and you try to do the best thing you can do at any given time. And that when you fuck up, you try to learn from it, like we did with our characters back in EPIC. We have a helluva GM in treave, but I think that for this thing to work, there needs to be some cooperation among the players - there are going to be times when we fuck up and take our lumps, and we should be good sports about it instead of going back so far.

Settle down, beavis. This isn't about playing a perfect game. It's a simple question of what we'd rather see. The crystal ball is mostly hyperbole (seriously, we still don't know what is going to happen), and you shouldn't be talking about cooperation when you're yelling at others for not voting your way. Treave has given us the option to vote for whichever we want, so you don't need to start this massive castigation about how voting for a reload is taboo. I say we just vote for whichever option we prefer (reload or continue).

Now we have Xu Jing. He's a character who is completely on his own, in a physically vulnerable state, and he's made a powerful enemy in Gao Ying. Out of a personal sense of honor and an overestimation of his own abilities - a defining character flaw of his - he performed an assassination without the help of his companions because he didn't want to involve them in the crazy circumstances and danger around himself. And now he's paying the price for it. That's a powerful character arc, I think.

Now, I'm not saying that I want to throw Jing from one tragedy to another and purposely fuck up. God no - I'm sure that every other voter here is just voting for whatever choice they think is best. But what I am saying is that when things inevitably do go tits-up, we ought to have a little bit more resolve than this.

We barely got into this new arc and you're already talking about how we're losing out and should be ashed to reconsider. Seriously. I suppose I must stress that this vote is where we get to really decide if we want to go ahead with this solo assassination branch. It's not decided just yet. And you can keep talking about how it's a powerful character arc, but when the question "Are we going to like this outcome?" arises, I think the answer is "Not so much." And there is a lot of legit appeal to seeing what would've happened with the BDS reload.

 

[a bear named spigot]

For example, would it have been so bad to admit to Wu brothers that we can't do what was asked of us to get the sword and the manual back and them skip town?

It really wouldn't have.

 

[TOME]

Baltika9, it would still have been better than this.

 

[Kipeci]

It was one thing to screw up so magnificently with Ean that he ended up in a torture sphere for millenia with unending resolve. Jing getting his throat slashed or rotting away in prison while all of his obligations slip by comparison just sort of seems disagreeable to me. Maybe it's cheap of me to vote for a reload, but I really have grown a bit sick of all these side quests and to have cocked it up terribly and delay a hook-up with what I consider the better part of the plot just seems a little annoying.

Of course, treave is a pretty great writer and I haven't seen what's in store for the next update, so maybe I could be surprised and decide to flop. As it seems right now, I'd rather reload.

 

[Esquilax]

Settle down, beavis. This isn't about playing a perfect game. It's a simple question of what we'd rather see. The crystal ball is mostly hyperbole (seriously, we still don't know about what is going to happen), and you shouldn't be talking about cooperation when you're yelling at others for not voting your way. Treave has given us the option to vote for whichever we want, so you don't need to start this massive castigation about how voting for a reload is taboo. I say we just vote for whichever option we prefer (reload or continue).
...
This vote isn't just about resolve with taking your mistakes though. It's also just a continuation of the question "would you rather actually see what would have happened if we did alright at BDS?" I suppose I must stress that this reload has been put on the table before this update got posted (with dead Jing), so this vote is where we get to really decide if we want to go ahead with this solo assassination B vote. It's not settled just yet. We barely got into this new arc and you're already talking about how we're losing out. And you can keep talking about how it's a powerful character arc, but when the question "Are we going to like this outcome?" arises, I think the answer is "Not so much." And there is a lot of legit appeal to seeing what would've happened with the BDS reload.

Yelling? Dude, we're having a conversation here, I don't mean to provoke anybody and I hope nobody confuses my passionate argumentation for aggression. The thing is though, if this assassination mission were a complete success (i.e. if A III won) then nobody would be voting for a reload. I can't see a set of circumstances in which if our excursion into making an alliance with the Wudang were a success, a large chunk of the voting block would be singing the same tune.

It's not that I like this outcome much either, but what are we going to do, reload every time we fuck up? There were lots of outcomes that I didn't like in previous LP's, but that's missing the forest for the trees. Part of the fun is learning and digging yourself out of adversity, whether you like the outcome or not. Success wouldn't be so sweet if it wasn't for failure.

I don't mind continuing but since it was made a vote I must vote reloading. There were times in Epic too when we deus exed or got alternative chapters when we didn't like the outcome. Let people vote how they want this time, even if you think it's stupid. Because this vote is just about that, what people want.

Are you thinking of the "Tea-Time with Zeus" situation? In that case, I'm pretty sure it was the result of the vote being miscounted. Not that the way it actually went down was much better, hehe.

I don't think that you can compare a lot of parts of Senya's arc with this situation. Senya himself was a terminal of the Observer who had control over time and space in the event of a bad situation - and even then, there was a trade-off because each time he used his powers it would hasten the arrival of the Ghost Singularity. It feels like we're getting off scot-free twice here.

In short, it feels a bit Now, I don't begrudge anybody for feeling invested in the character and wanting to set things - regret is a common theme in these LP's. However, it does feel like it would cheapen the spirit of the LP, which is that you have to soldier on and live with your mistakes. We've made two BAD END choices in a row - I think we have to draw a line at some point.

Also, if this whole excursion were successful and we made friends with the Wudang, got the manual, came out in one piece, etc. I doubt anybody would be clamouring for a reload. So this definitely has to do with "I don't like what happened! Let's just go back to this point when things were better."

 

[Absinthe]

Yelling? Dude, we're having a conversation here, I don't mean to provoke anybody and I hope nobody confuses my passionate argumentation for aggression.

Well, it is a rather murky line, to be sure.

The thing is though, if this assassination mission were a complete success (i.e. if A III won) then nobody would be voting for a reload. I can't see a set of circumstances in which if our excursion into making an alliance with the Wudang were a success, a large chunk of the voting block would be singing the same tune.

Eh, we can't say that for certain. A number of us do want to see Jing back on track to finish the main quest. As I recall, you were originally pushing for how we've dicked around too much and really should continue the main quest. Well, now we have a chance. I say we take it.

It's not that I like this outcome much either, but what are we going to do, reload every time we fuck up? There were lots of outcomes that I didn't like in previous LP's, but that's missing the forest for the trees. Part of the fun is learning and digging yourself out of adversity, whether you like the outcome or not. Success wouldn't be so sweet if it wasn't for failure.

Well, no, and I don't think treave is going to keep offering us reloads. Only on character deaths and treave writing himself into a corner, maybe. Right now he's offered the option, so I'd rather just take it. I think that's the difference on where we stand about reload arguments. You're saying "Don't go for a reload every time things don't turn out your way" and I'm saying "We won't even be getting the option to reload most times, so lets just choose what we like when treave lets us."

 

[Esquilax]

It was one thing to screw up so magnificently with Ean that he ended up in a torture sphere for millenia with unending resolve. Jing getting his throat slashed or rotting away in prison while all of his obligations slip by comparison just sort of seems disagreeable to me. Maybe it's cheap of me to vote for a reload, but I really have grown a bit sick of all these side quests and to have cocked it up terribly and delay a hook-up with what I consider the better part of the plot just seems a little annoying.

Of course, treave is a pretty great writer and I haven't seen what's in store for the next update, so maybe I could be surprised and decide to flop. As it seems right now, I'd rather reload.

Ean got thrown into sphere torture for 3,000 years while he had a fledgling Empire, potential exterminatus from the Masters and the threat of the Gieloth draining the planet of resources. I'd say we had a sense of obligations slipping by there too.

I got irritated with side-quests too; I was probably the most vocal about it back when we had our little ghost-hunting detour. In fact, I was even against going after the pirates, though I was willing to see it through to the end.

But I actually don't see courting the Wudang as any more of a sidequest than meeting up with Cao'er at Emei. While I voted for the latter choice, I still saw the benefit of having a friend there and I knew that it would help us a lot. There was also the opportunity to refine our Chuzhan Fist by exposing ourselves to Taiji as well, so there were lots of benefits to going there. Plus we still had the information on Mao Sanjian to share with their higher-ups once we had begun to establish some trust with them, so I totally disagree that Wudang was divorced from our greater goals.

Going after the Wo pirates was a sidequest. Ghost-hunting was definitely a sidequest. But I don't think Wudang was.

For example, would it have been so bad to admit to Wu brothers that we can't do what was asked of us to get the sword and the manual back and them skip town?

It really wouldn't have.

No, we accepted the mission from Daoshi, we had to follow through, that wasn't a problem. And I'm glad we went with it. However, the real problem with our approach was (a) painting ourselves in a corner by hearing out Du Yao, and (b) Doing the mission on our own. The fault wasn't with going to Wudang in the first place.

 

[Kipeci]

That's very well, but I do hope that you're coming up with some sort of master plan to keep us from coming right back to this spot when Zhang Jue makes like a Syrian rebel with our heart. I would prefer to restart from AIII as an option that won't get us killed, but that doesn't appear to be an option.

 

[Nevill]

Maybe he is the forgiving type?

 

[TOME]

yeah, Tea-Time with Zeus was what I meant. I remember we got to vote which update we liked better or something like that. And then there were the whole "you arrive in egypt, Marduk eats Zeus and becomes supermonster, wanna reconsider?" thing, and these things didn't make Epic worse.

 

[Tigranes]

As I recall, I voted that (1) it's not like telling Gao Ying we serve Shun is some kind of blood bound oath, why not tell him? (2) Emei is obvious option for healing and the gang, why go Wudang? (3) we have to either do the assassination or kidnap the daughter. *shrug* so in that sense I'm fine with a reload. But equally, continue would be the least declinecasualfag thing to do...

 

[Nevill]

yeah, Tea-Time with Zeus was what I meant. I remember we got to vote which update we liked better or something like that.

No, that update was a result of a vote miscount, and after the correct one was made we didn't get to choose between them.

And then there were the whole "you arrive in egypt, Marduk eats Zeus and becomes supermonster, wanna reconsider?" thing, and these things didn't make Epic worse.

In the very beginning treave specifically promised us that this won't happen in the Legend.

 

[Absinthe]

As I recall, I voted that (1) it's not like telling Gao Ying we serve Shun is some kind of blood bound oath, why not tell him? (2) Emei is obvious option for healing and the gang, why go Wudang? (3) we have to either do the assassination or kidnap the daughter. *shrug* so in that sense I'm fine with a reload. But equally, continue would be the least declinecasualfag thing to do...

If we reload, I say we avoid Wudang. Going back to Wudang is just too metagame. Also, we still haven't committed to continuing yet. If we'd fully committed, I could see the merit behind a "no takebacks" argument. But if we get this teaser and an "Are you sure? You can still change your mind." then I don't believe there should be a pressure to go on as if it's some massive betrayal of principles to reload. Just vote for whichever outcome you prefer, I'd say.

Also, I just don't like the "All the cool kids vote continue, are you saying you're not a cool kid?" line of argumentation.

Well, this LP went off the rails rather badly. Hmm, reloading back at the fortress? If that is indeed an option it might not be be a bad idea, though we already made some fuckups before that (like killing that agent and then revealing ourselves). Though I suppose we could claim that a ghost killed him and we just took the crest.

Shall I take that as a reload vote?

Current tally:

Rollback - Back to BDS Escape - Make it happen: (13 votes)
Absinthe
Kipeci
Elfberserker
Rex Feral
TOME
Zero Credibility
A bear named spigot
Fangshi
Lambchop19
Jester
Grimgravy
Tigranes
XenomorphII

Conditional votes: (1 vote)
At 7 votes, Fangshi Reached
At 10 votes, Grimgravy Reached
At 14 votes, MystiKnight

Onwards - Captured Solo Assassin it is: (13 votes)
Esquilax
kazgar
Kashmir Slippers
Nevill
The Brazilian Slaughter
LWC1996
Azira
Smashing Axe
ScubaV
RealDDc
Baltika9
Anabanana
ERYFKRAD

 

[Nevill]

The call of the YOLOTIGER is too strong indeed. Flopping to CONTINUE.

 

[Absinthe]

Noted, Baltika9 flopped. I think YOLOTIGER is pretty considering we just died and are at the reload screen though.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Noted, Baltika9 flopped. I think YOLOTIGER is pretty considering we just died and are at the reload screen though.

Guess it's YOLOTTIGER then. You Live Only Once Twice.

 

[Nevill]

Jing lives in death!

 

[Zero Credibility]

Shall I take that as a reload vote?

Yeah, put me down as reload. I would like to see where that path leads, the current one holds less interest for me.

 

[Baltika9]

Noted, Baltika9 flopped. I think YOLOTIGER is pretty considering we just died and are at the reload screen though.

The way treave put it makes me think that Jing is alive, but in a shitty situation. And so long as we're living, it's only fair to keep on trucking and dealing with all our mistakes, turning them into victories. Failure teaches success and all. If we legitimately died and the somehow came back from the dead, and if that is the case then I wouldn't trade it for anything. Coming back from the dead is freaking awesome. Unless treave makes BJ a girl with Jing in her head, in which case I'm immediately flopping to that.

Baltika9, it would still have been better than this.

Judging by our rep boost with Wudang, Du Yao came through on his end of the deal and gave them the items, because we wouldn't get +rep with them if we just made off in the middle of the night never to be seen again (told you Du Yao was on the level). The mistake was never agreeing to do this job, that was the absolutely correct call, the mistake was to do it alone in our condition.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Noted, Baltika9 flopped. I think YOLOTIGER is pretty considering we just died and are at the reload screen though.

The way treave put it makes me think that Jing is alive, but in a shitty situation. And so long as we're living, it's only fair to keep on trucking and dealing with all our mistakes, turning them into victories. Failure teaches success and all. If we legitimately died and the somehow came back from the dead, and if that is the case then I wouldn't trade it for anything. Coming back from the dead is freaking awesome. Unless treave makes BJ a girl with Jing in her head, in which case I'm immediately flopping to that.

Baltika9, it would still have been better than this.

Judging by our rep boost with Wudang, Du Yao came through on his end of the deal and gave them the items, because we wouldn't get +rep with them if we just made off in the middle of the night never to be seen again (told you Du Yao was on the level). The mistake was never agreeing to do this job, that was the absolutely correct call, the mistake was to do it alone in our condition.

Unless we screwed Du Yao for the benefit of the entire City.