Wildstar - Next NCSoft MMORPG

[Cyberarmy]

I think I'm late for the key :/

 

[Direwolf]

I got two beta keys if anybody wants

Yes, please!

 

[Excidium]

Yeah all two were already taken. You gotta be fast around these parts

 

[Greatness]

I've been playing for around a week now (Thanks to Excidium for the invite). I'm not sure what all I'm allowed to say about the game. According to the NDA I'm pretty restricted: "You may not discuss, stream, post images and video, or share any information about the content that you've experienced in beta."

So uhm... I'll just say the NDA isn't holding me back from "praising" the game.

It's actually kinda surprising how effective the NDA has been. I look at other popular gaming forums and I see mostly positive stuff about Wildstar, but when I look on the actual games beta forum it's mass topics about how flawed and uninspired it really is.

Anyways I'll try and force myself (believe me it's hard) to make it to the end game and see if things improve.

 

[Metro]

NDAs make absolutely no sense for games... especially MMOs where you face an uphill battle breaking into the market. You'd think a company would want people generating hype.

 

[Excidium]

NDAs make absolutely no sense for games... especially MMOs where you face an uphill battle breaking into the market. You'd think a company would want people generating hype.

It makes sense because they'd want hype from their own controlled channels like dev videos, interviews, etc where they can make everything look awesome. Random people playing the game might give the wrong impression, specially on a beta where some areas might not be as good as others.

 

[Eyeball]

So I watched TotalDipshit play this for a while. It looks really purdy and the graphical style is cute, but I have to ask: how is this game different from all the other 9000 WoW clones on the market? It looks depressingly similar to GW2.

 

[Xenich]

So I watched TotalDipshit play this for a while. It looks really purdy and the graphical style is cute, but I have to ask: how is this game different from all the other 9000 WoW clones on the market? It looks depressingly similar to GW2.

Have you watched the Devspeak vids on their site? The concept of "Adventures" seems like an interesting way to keep content fresh, though... how it is implemented will make or break it. The "Paths" concept also appears to add a layer of content on top of normal grouping. The customization aspects of loot is interesting, but still a bit vague, though the character development does appear to have a vast array of options and may provide some complex elements of play. Add in player housing and full customization of such and well, it doesn't appear to be a simple WoW clone. I mean, the retarded hand holding, its cartoon graphics, and its questing structure (from what little I can tell) appear to be similar, but overall it has far more depth than WoW ever had, but like I said, my knowledge of the game is really only from some reading, random game play vids and the devspeak.

My friend and I talked about it and came to this opinion on the possibility of playing it. We like the wacky look and style as well as its humor. It reminds me of the old Loony Toons or the Don Bluth animations. The combat is beyond twitchy, but... it may be entertaining from an arcade game play perspective. Sure, the game becomes less of an RPG and more of an MMOFPS style of play with extremely fast combat and key hitting, but... as I said, it does "appear" to have rather large selective character development options. So, it "may" be entertaining in the simple aspect of the "humor" and the tactical twitch play of the combat in some scenarios. I don't see the game as being a long term play, but it does have more depth than many of the games we see out today, so it "may" be worth a try. I just wish I could get into beta to get a better feel for it.

 

[Mangoose]

I'm in the beta but I can't bring myself to create a character lol. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

There's a big patch coming out in mid March, might as well wait until then.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Anyone have a beta key to spare?

 

[felipepepe]

Anyone have a beta key to spare?

I want one as well, I'm curious about how they are trying to break the formula.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Anyone have a beta key to spare?

I want one as well, I'm curious about how they are trying to break the formula.

I expect it to be pretty much a more twitch like WoW clone, but the comedy aspect of the universe interests me and the exploration/lore paths appeal to my need to devour scifi/fantasy lore. But this beta is truly hard to come by, which is weird unless the plan to release it only towards the end of the year.

 

[Mangoose]

I had to quit after 30 minutes because it reminded me too much of SWTOR graphically.

Combat at level 1 actually almost feels like an action game... Except that dodging goes on cooldown after two uses (like GW2) making it impossible to play like a hack & slash ninja/Dante

 

[John_Blazze]

If they do, you probably won't experience it in a beta weekend, seems like it all comes later in the game.

I really think they should let people play some mid game shit in their next beta weekends.
Because holy fuck the early game is boring and tedious.

They should just drop you in the first big hub and be done with it, skipping the fucking prologue and "starter" zones. I bet it would work better as far as grabbing peoples attention.
Because dumbfucks get bored too and I refuse to believe that anyone that are not familiar with MMOs and know the good (well, passable) shit comes later, if ever, would say "Wow, this is fun, let me spend more money on this game" after first hour or two of running trough corridors from one quest mark to another.
And I'd think that is what developers/publisher would want.

 

[Xenich]

I had to quit after 30 minutes because it reminded me too much of SWTOR graphically.

Combat at level 1 actually almost feels like an action game... Except that dodging goes on cooldown after two uses (like GW2) making it impossible to play like a hack & slash ninja/Dante

From the game play videos and devspeak, I expect no less than a massive twitchy arcade style game, which is fine for a game if you expect it going in.

 

[John_Blazze]

What I experienced does not feel much different than the standard MMO combat.
You just move alot, circling around your target like real time Grimrock, dodging and waiting on your cooldowns to end.

Actually, that twitchy, arcade combat would be welcome, in my opinion.

Maybe something akin to Dragons Dogma would work, which Black Desert kinda tries to do. And it actually looks less boring than combat in ESO and WS but it still is an MMO... and it's korean. But it's also a sandbox, so who knows.

 

[Xenich]

What I experienced does not feel much different than the standard MMO combat.
You just move alot, circling around your target like real time Grimrock, dodging and waiting on your cooldowns to end.

Actually, that twitchy, arcade combat would be welcome, in my opinion.

Maybe something akin to Dragons Dogma would work, which Black Desert kinda tries to do. And it actually looks less boring than combat in ESO and WS but it still is an MMO... and it's korean. But it's also a sandbox, so who knows.

Well, I guess it depends on what you consider to be standard MMO and how you define action/twitch. EQ doesn't fit into that, nor does EQ 2, and WoW is closer to that, but more of a hybrid between the two, though less so in the earlier content (other than during a boss event). Games like TSW, Terra, NWN, etc... brought about those tactics to normal encounters. Not only does Wildstar have the whole dodge and movement strategy in most of the encounters, but its entire casting/ability system is centered around various action based approaches (ie long hold down build-up to fire, press and rapid tap the hotkey, short tap, etc... Those are all action/twitch features. Non-twitch features (going to the opposite extreme) would be full turn based, or auto-attack with the occasional cast or ability (ala EQ).

I mean, the old arcade games like Defender were simple (move to avoid things and fire at objects). Some arcade games added a bit more, such as having the ship fire in different ways based on how you pressed the fire button (Wildstar ability system).

So yeah, I would have to say Wildstar is extreme twitch/action. Though, then again most MMOs these days are action arcade games (where success is primarily based on the reflex ability of the player).

 

[Mangoose]

I had to quit after 30 minutes because it reminded me too much of SWTOR graphically.

Combat at level 1 actually almost feels like an action game... Except that dodging goes on cooldown after two uses (like GW2) making it impossible to play like a hack & slash ninja/Dante

From the game play videos and devspeak, I expect no less than a massive twitchy arcade style game, which is fine for a game if you expect it going in.

What I said was that based on personal beta experience, it was almost fun in an action/twitch way but in the end, it is not.

It's not twitch when you have a cooldown on your dodge. It's twitch only when enemies make big telegraphed attacks, while you spend the cooldown trading little blows. Just like Guild Wars 2. Just like Neverwinter. Compared to all MMOs, sure it's as twitchy as it gets, besides maybe Vindictus, but gameplay-wise (AI intelligence, attack/dodge timing window, encounter design in general) it pales to a regular hack & slash game you'd find on the console.

Granted the attacks (or impacts) "feel" better than the aforementioned MMOs, which is meaningful for an hack&slash.

I mean, the old arcade games like Defender were simple (move to avoid things and fire at objects). Some arcade games added a bit more, such as having the ship fire in different ways based on how you pressed the fire button (Wildstar ability system).

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

 

[Xenich]

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

I don't see how a "cooldown" has anything to do with a game being twitch or not. /shrug

 

[Mangoose]

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

I don't see how a "cooldown" has anything to do with a game being twitch or not. /shrug

How the fuck do you dodge away from an enemy's attack - the first principle of action games - when the ability to dodge is on cooldown? In other words, it's like playing Defender, dodging two bullets, and then sitting there soaking 3 more bullets while you wail away at the attack button. And then, games like Defender/Space Invaders also requires some bit of skill to aim, especially getting into higher levels with enemies that run around. Which doesn't happen in Wildstar, they stand there and let you wail on them as long as you have 'aggro.' Just like Neverwinter, which uses auto-aim lol. If you can't even provide the challenge of and 80s coinop game, get out.

 

[John_Blazze]

I diddn't express myself properly.

The combat is more twitchy and action oriented, yeah, but the encounters doesn't really feel much different than your typical MMO because of that.
I just don't think it adds much. I know Carbine diddn't try to reinvent the genre, but they could take this further and go the TERA way, or actually Vindictus way.
Yes you have different ways of delivering the damaging skills, and dodging once in a while, but theres no weight to the blows, no stagger. Everything feels too "floaty".

 

[Mangoose]

I just don't think it adds much. I know Carbine diddn't try to reinvent the genre, but they could take this further and go the TERA way, or actually Vindictus way.

TERA seemed to have just really bad AI that never really challenged you, unfortunately. Vindictus seemed better, though I may have had lag issues too. But seriously, I consider all of these games pretty damn easy on the action-skill part, whereas I consider myself barely past a novice in terms of any REAL twitchy game from the spectrum of Ninja Gaiden to Dark Souls. Maybe the gameplay fundamentals are already fine, maybe it could be a good game, but I'm not seeing it unless you ramp up the difficulty. And by difficulty I do not mean HP bloat but let me die in two hits.

Incidentally, GW2 is the one MMO that can get difficult when you are just leveling, because enemies potentially do a shitload of damage to you. Though because of the dodge cooldown, and cooldowns on abilities in general that may let you dodge, it's half a twitch game, half a cooldown-management/ability-timing game. Which is okay if the encounters/world and the leveling/abilities-you-get were not really fucking boring and also the below:

Yes you have different ways of delivering the damaging skills, and dodging once in a while, but theres no weight to the blows, no stagger. Everything feels too "floaty".

Felt okay to me, but then again I had been playing way too much GW2 lately (very shitty weight to the impacts).

 

[Xenich]

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

I don't see how a "cooldown" has anything to do with a game being twitch or not. /shrug

How the fuck do you dodge away from an enemy's attack - the first principle of action games - when the ability to dodge is on cooldown?

Via tactical positioning and timing of both your character and the use of the dodge ability. You do it all the time in games like TSW and even NW. That is, your dodge ability is kept in reserve for special needs, or in cases where there is a pattern in timing of a NPCs ability and the rest of the time you keep your toon positioned in a manner so you can easily sidestep or run out of the area of effect. Funny thing is, I rarely use the dodge ability in games like TSW. I just position myself at the apex of a traversal area so I can easily step out of the area, or in cases where it is omni directional, I watch for the tell tale and then run away out of the area early. The point is, dodge being on cool down doesn't change the fact that I am using "player action" ie "twitch play" to be able to avoid or defeat the encounter.

In other words, it's like playing Defender, dodging two bullets, and then sitting there soaking 3 more bullets while you wail away at the attack button.

And there were many arcade games that had special abilities that were limited or timed use which you had to strategically use at optimal times to get the most out of them. Dodge is a skill just like that, well... it is in TSW and Neverwinter and it "appears" to look the same in Wildstar.

And then, games like Defender/Space Invaders also requires some bit of skill to aim, especially getting into higher levels with enemies that run around. Which doesn't happen in Wildstar, they stand there and let you wail on them as long as you have 'aggro.' Just like Neverwinter, which uses auto-aim lol. If you can't even provide the challenge of and 80s coinop game, get out.

Go back to the core of the concept. Twitch combat isn't limited to such things. It is about player reaction time and physical attention being an element that has a strong influence on the result of a given encounter. A non-actiony game would be chess, or a turn based game, etc... In those cases, it doesn't matter how fast or physically well you make a move, etc... as the encounter is not governed by such interaction. Arcade games were about player reaction and physical coordination. This can come in many forms, be it aiming, moving, timing a given action (ie hitting an ability in rotation or in sequence), etc... While most games have "some" elements of such (even EQ has "some" physical factors of such), much of the later games today are strongly "twitchy". It isn't a surprise though, being that we have had over a decade where action gaming has been the standard of the industry, but the point is that Wildstar is a very twitchy game.

 

[Mangoose]

Not at all comparable, because playing a game like Defender means you are shooting and dodging a couple dozen enemies. In Wildstar you fight your standard mob which attacks slowly which you either dodge or you don't dodge depending if dodge is on cooldown lol.

I don't see how a "cooldown" has anything to do with a game being twitch or not. /shrug

How the fuck do you dodge away from an enemy's attack - the first principle of action games - when the ability to dodge is on cooldown?

Via tactical positioning and timing of both your character and the use of the dodge ability. You do it all the time in games like TSW and even NW. That is, your dodge ability is kept in reserve for special needs, or in cases where there is a pattern in timing of a NPCs ability and the rest of the time you keep your toon positioned in a manner so you can easily sidestep or run out of the area of effect. Funny thing is, I rarely use the dodge ability in games like TSW. I just position myself at the apex of a traversal area so I can easily step out of the area, or in cases where it is omni directional, I watch for the tell tale and then run away out of the area early. The point is, dodge being on cool down doesn't change the fact that I am using "player action" ie "twitch play" to be able to avoid or defeat the encounter.

Dude, Neverwinter is a VERY easy game to play. I've multiple characters and dozens of hours on it.

And as for TSW, nobody uses the dodge skill. Because TSW is about synergy of your skill choices and activating them correctly, not twitchiness. FFS.

Stop playing shit-easy action games and thinking you're good at action games. LOL @ trying to describe your tactics and strategy as if you're a master. Are you fucking kidding me? Yes, you're the master at twitch games that a 10 year old can play. When's the last time an enemy in Neverwinter or TSW moved out of the way of your attack in the same way that higher level enemies in an arcade game like Defender do?

And there were many arcade games that had special abilities that were limited or timed use which you had to strategically use at optimal times to get the most out of them.

Something tells me you've heard of these "so called arcade games" but never played them to see how butt-rapingly hard they are compared to the MMO twitch-shits that you play.

It is about player reaction time

Yes, you get a fucking one second reaction window to dodge in Neverwinter, whereas in Ninja Gaiden you have 1-5/10th of that.

A non-actiony game would be chess, or a turn based game, etc... the point is that Wildstar is a very twitchy game.

No-one is saying Wildstar or NW or TSW is non-twitchy. That's you projecting your black-and-white-thinking and straw-manning my points. My point is that Wildstar, NW, are bad performing twitch games. If you can't get through your thick skull that there is a nuance amongst "not a twitch game" "is a twitch game" and "is a bad twitch game" not to mention the other logical possibilities "is a good twitch game" "is a good non-twitch game" "is a bad non-twitch game" then you might be not a moron.

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TLDR there is only one good twitch-based (well-populated) MMO and that is Planetside 2 because it's a shooter that for the most part plays with the freedom of a shooter, and the enemies are players that both attack and avoid you at the same time.