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Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I Bet that entire Almalexia in ESO is the size of Mournhold which is Citadel/Uptown not the entire city in Tribunal; some of the Dungeon were very nicely done but agree adding another ring of commoners city and slums outside the city walls plus some caves outside/Royal hunting lodge would be Sweet. +M
 

Carrion

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Lore wise it was just the very center of the city though, there was supposed to be a massive actual city right outside the walls.
I know, but it's still more than sad to enter an area called "The Great Bazaar" and discover that it has about five named commoners standing about, a couple of shopkeepers with no customers and a theatre performance with three spectators. When you've got a huge (and completely empty) temple area, a huge (and completely empty) plaza and a royal palace, the other areas feel even smaller.

What could have been awesome was setting the whole thing in one massive city, no dungeons. Lots of quests taking you through alleyways and ghettos rather than tunnels and shit. I would assume they didn't think the engine was up for that though, and it probably wasn't.
They probably would've had to cut the city into a million little pieces and keep it as depopulated as it is, but yes, this is what I had hoped the game would be like. Take Caius' quests that took place in Vivec and ramp it up to eleven.
 

DraQ

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Tribunal is best left unfinished. The whole expansion back feels like a bad MMO. Almost no exploration, boring locations, supergoblins that would kill Vivec in seconds and terrible MQ writing (Almalexia is a really bad character, especially when compared to Vivec), it ruined the other two memebers of the Tribunal for me and I can say for sure that I'd be happier if I never played it. The best way to play Tribunal is to explore the pretty city, sell your items to shopkeepers that for a change actually have money, talk to Bareniah for a bit and then quit.
I wouldn't rate Tribunal that low.

It's definitely worth playing and offers some memorable moments* (not to mention you need it to complete Daedric set if you don't want to kill Fyrbro in cold bold).

Its main problems are that story is too scripted, that it doesn't work in conjunction with gameplay, as it essentially requires you to be high** and low*** level at the same time.
The Imperfect, Barenziah, Barilzar, some decent dungeons, Sotha Sil's neural fucking interface, Helseth being fairly magnificent asshole
Nerevarine.
Being forced to play along.

In general expansions are inferior to base Morrowind and slightly inferior to Skyrim.

I know, but it's still more than sad to enter an area called "The Great Bazaar" and discover that it has about five named commoners standing about, a couple of shopkeepers with no customers and a theatre performance with three spectators. When you've got a huge (and completely empty) temple area, a huge (and completely empty) plaza and a royal palace, the other areas feel even smaller.
That's my main problem with Mournhold, actually - it's awfully sparse for an urban area.

Indoril architecture notwithstanding it's a failure of a city, feeling almost like Imperial City v0.5 (and there is a minor subplot foreshadowing oblivion invasion - go figure).

Tribunal is mostly wasted potential. The change of scenery is great and the premise is super interesting. Almalexia, Sotha Sil, Helseth, Barenziah, the Dark Brotherhood, oh yes, bring it on! Tribunal being set in a city (especially when that city is Mournhold) would've offered a great chance to depart from the "normal" Morrowind gameplay and instead fully focus on political meddling in an urban setting.
The problem here was that it's hard to keep player controlled to a degree necessary for proper political plot to work when they're already pretty much a force of nature.
 
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Self-Ejected

Brayko

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Trying this again, very heavily modded. Gotta say, no matter what you do to it, I don't think anything else exists that encourages the biggest LARPfest INSIDE of it. Morrowind was guilty of this to, but at least in Morrowind you had enough mechanics/exploits to play with to let it slide. :/
 

DraQ

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Trying this again, very heavily modded. Gotta say, no matter what you do to it, I don't think anything else exists that encourages the biggest LARPfest INSIDE of it. Morrowind was guilty of this to, but at least in Morrowind you had enough mechanics/exploits to play with to let it slide. :/
It's not the matter of how heavily you mod it.
:smug:
It's the matter of what mods you use.
 
Unwanted

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Andhaira
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I have the Dawnguard expansion, so I was wondering whether to choose to become a Vampire Lord or a Werewolf. I have read the pros and cons of each online, and thus far the VL seems like a good and fun choice. I can be active in the sun, but with penalties. My VL form can only be used at night which is fine by me. The only thing holding me back is the mandatory feeding: does it become much of a problem? I enjoy roaming the wilds, and it would be annoying to keep coming back to civilization every couple of hours just to feed. Or does it not really bother the player that much? Can a vampire feed on animals or monsters apart from undead?

I know that either of these can be reversed at any time in the game, but I intend to keep the choice I made till end game.

Fake Edit: Mods, there is no tag for Skyrim or the TES series, even though there are ones for Dragon Age and Mass Effect
 

DalekFlay

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Neither is really powerful enough to bother with, honestly. People seem to like it only for the "OMG I'm a vampire!!!" aspect.
 
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Feeding is not mandatory, it's a means to control your POWAH LEVEL.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism

Full vampirism is made up of four distinct stages, starting at stage one and progressing to stage four. You advance one stage for every 24 hours you go without feeding on a sleeping NPC. Feeding always returns you to stage one.

As a vampire, you will experience both beneficial and detrimental changes depending on your current stage. The longer you go without blood, the more extreme these changes will become. In addition, as you progress through the stages you gain several unique powers and spells, some of which will grow more powerful with each stage. Returning to stage one will remove the higher level powers and reset the remaining ones to their original strength.

If you never feed, you'll just stay in stage four permanently. If you turned into a vampire for the statistical advantages, you'll probably do just that anyway. There was also an additional disadvantage, nerfed in Dawnguard.

Vampires are hated and feared by the general population and stage four vampires will be attacked on sight. The four major joinable factions will not be hostile toward stage four vampires so long as you join before you reach stage four and are not caught feeding on any of their members. With Dawnguard installed, NPCs will only attack you if you are in Vampire Lord form.

As for the feeding:

In order to remain at, or return to, the first stage of vampirism, you must feed on a sleeping NPC. To do this press "Use" while crouching or standing over them and select "Feed". Feeding should be done with caution, as witnesses will immediately become hostile. You can feed on almost any NPC that sleeps in a bed, including all races and even ghosts and other vampires, but not children.

Children in TES are truly the most terrifying immortal beings.
 

Xeon

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IIRC there is a spell for the Vampire Lord to get NPCs in a daze state or something and you can feed on them without a problem and you if you join the Vampire clan you get a few slaves to feed on.

From my experience Vampire Lord is strong at start but doesn't get much stronger, Werewolf is weak at start but gets much stronger later. I'll say it depends on who you want to join, If you join the Vampire clan go with the Vampire Lord and if you choose Dawnguards then go with the Werewolf.
 

Lancehead

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As for the feeding:

In order to remain at, or return to, the first stage of vampirism, you must feed on a sleeping NPC. To do this press "Use" while crouching or standing over them and select "Feed". Feeding should be done with caution, as witnesses will immediately become hostile. You can feed on almost any NPC that sleeps in a bed, including all races and even ghosts and other vampires, but not children.

Children in TES are truly the most terrifying immortal beings.
And then the game has a vampire who was turned as a kid.

I wonder if you could feed on children npcs with a mod like Non Essential Children.
 
Unwanted

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Andhaira
Andhaira
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Feeding is not mandatory, it's a means to control your POWAH LEVEL.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism

Full vampirism is made up of four distinct stages, starting at stage one and progressing to stage four. You advance one stage for every 24 hours you go without feeding on a sleeping NPC. Feeding always returns you to stage one.

As a vampire, you will experience both beneficial and detrimental changes depending on your current stage. The longer you go without blood, the more extreme these changes will become. In addition, as you progress through the stages you gain several unique powers and spells, some of which will grow more powerful with each stage. Returning to stage one will remove the higher level powers and reset the remaining ones to their original strength.

If you never feed, you'll just stay in stage four permanently. If you turned into a vampire for the statistical advantages, you'll probably do just that anyway. There was also an additional disadvantage, nerfed in Dawnguard.

Vampires are hated and feared by the general population and stage four vampires will be attacked on sight. The four major joinable factions will not be hostile toward stage four vampires so long as you join before you reach stage four and are not caught feeding on any of their members. With Dawnguard installed, NPCs will only attack you if you are in Vampire Lord form.

As for the feeding:

In order to remain at, or return to, the first stage of vampirism, you must feed on a sleeping NPC. To do this press "Use" while crouching or standing over them and select "Feed". Feeding should be done with caution, as witnesses will immediately become hostile. You can feed on almost any NPC that sleeps in a bed, including all races and even ghosts and other vampires, but not children.

Children in TES are truly the most terrifying immortal beings.

Thanks, that's really helpful. I had thought you get attacked at stage four, but I guess not. But for larping purposes i will try to stay at stage 1 as much as I can. Another thing I have read is that at higher stages (2, 3, and 4) your weaknesses get more pronounced.

IIRC there is a spell for the Vampire Lord to get NPCs in a daze state or something and you can feed on them without a problem and you if you join the Vampire clan you get a few slaves to feed on.

From my experience Vampire Lord is strong at start but doesn't get much stronger, Werewolf is weak at start but gets much stronger later. I'll say it depends on who you want to join, If you join the Vampire clan go with the Vampire Lord and if you choose Dawnguards then go with the Werewolf.

I've read the opposite, that werewolf is weaker than the vampire lord. the werewolfs main advantage is faster mobility in wolf form. Can you shed some light on this, why do you think VLs are weak compared to WWs, and how do WWs get stronger later? Are you taking into account the vampire gets stronger at nightimes?
 

Xeon

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With no perks the werewolf is pretty weak, maxed out perks the werewolf gets a 100% more damage and you can power attack them and throw them around kinda similar to a Fus Ro Dah effect, the only downside is probably the inability to revert at will.

Vampire Lord Perks -- Werewolf Perks

But like Dalek said both of them suck, compared to how much powerful you can get with smithing and enchanting your equipment.
 
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Andhaira
Andhaira
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With no perks the werewolf is pretty weak, maxed out perks the werewolf gets a 100% more damage and you can power attack them and throw them around kinda similar to a Fus Ro Dah effect, the only downside is probably the inability to revert at will.

Vampire Lord Perks -- Werewolf Perks

But like Dalek said both of them suck, compared to how much powerful you can get with smithing and enchanting your equipment.

I don't intend to get into smithing or enchanting much. I'm playing a dark elf battlemage, so I may just enchant something that will reduce mana consumption for spells, assuming i don't find any item or clothing that does the same. But that's it. Won't waste perk points in smithing at all most likely. I really, really loathe how nearly every rpg over the past couple of years and in the forseeable future needs to have item creation. I blame MMOs and KOTOR for this.
 

AW8

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I have the Dawnguard expansion, so I was wondering whether to choose to become a Vampire Lord or a Werewolf.
Both are pretty powerful. Not as powerful as your normal form can be with Enchanting/Smithing/Alchemy and perks, but powerful enough to slaughter your enemies and be fun to play. Sprinting as a Vampire Lord/Werewolf is also the fastest way to travel in the vanilla game, I think.


Werewolves need to feed on corpses, otherwise they'll revert within 150 seconds - this is not a problem with the perk that let's you add time by feasting on animal flesh. Just devour a couple of rabbits and deer on the way to your destination, and when you arrive you have to use the Wait function to get out of the damn form because you've added so much time to your invisible timer.

Werewolves can stunlock enemies with the knockdown attack, used like a dual-wielding strike (LMB+RMB). You can even knock down Giants, it's hilarious. You can't ragdoll Mammoths but you're fast enough to stay behind them and claw their rear off.

With the perks added in Dawnguard, Werewolves can deal a ton of damage. Your strongest attack is the lunge attack, achieved by sprinting and attacking. It's hard to pull off, as the controls are unresponsive because Bethesda. But once you pull it off you can one-hit bears before they even get to their feet, and then keep on running past their corpse, leaving it in your dust. I once slaughtered an Ancient Dragon in a few seconds after he landed with a barrage of lunge attacks. Up yours Akatosh, Hircine all the way.


Vampire Lords don't have to bother with feeding on corpses, and have the ability to attack at range, but deal much less damage. Your Vampiric Drain restores Health though, and by playing the Volkihar (vampire) side in Dawnguard you get access to a magical chalice that gives you the added ability to restore Stamina and Magicka with Vampiric Drain. This makes it easier to operate in daylight if you save at least some Magicka.

Like Werewolves, they can stunlock most enemies with Vampiric Grip. I slaughtered everyone in Riften once, and used Vampiric Grip to throw the immortal NPC's over the city walls, to keep them from bothering me. Dragons and Giants will probably be a boring spamfest to kill due to your limited ability to increase damage (much like a mage), but humanoids can be thrown around like the inferior weaklings they are with Vampiric Grip.

You're a little more versatile than Werewolf form with different powers that are basically Whirlwind Sprint Lite, Become Ethereal Lite, Unrelenting Force Lite, and Aura Whisper Lite. You'd still be better off using these shouts in your normal (armor capped, OP swords dual-wielding, potion-chugging murderhobo) form, but throwing enemies down heights with Vampiric Grip and restoring your attributes by sucking the life out of your enemies make this form worth playing.


I dissed both forms loudly before actually playing them, complaining over the forced third person perspective and the inability to loot and interact (VL form). But when I did test them I was pleasantly surprised, as both forms were powerful enough to survive and fun to play. Playing Werewolf is among the most fun I've had in Skyrim. It's a complete blessing without a single trace of a curse in it, which I don't think reflects the lore at all, but it makes for some highly entertaining gameplay.
 
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DalekFlay

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I don't intend to get into smithing or enchanting much. I'm playing a dark elf battlemage, so I may just enchant something that will reduce mana consumption for spells, assuming i don't find any item or clothing that does the same. But that's it. Won't waste perk points in smithing at all most likely. I really, really loathe how nearly every rpg over the past couple of years and in the forseeable future needs to have item creation. I blame MMOs and KOTOR for this.

I like finding items more than crafting them as well, but Skyrim is especially built around smithing. I'm not sure the Daedric and Dragon armors and weapons are really found in the game world much, if at all, and a big part of Dragonborn DLC is crafting Stahlrim or whatever it's called. Not trying to change your mind, my assassin character became a god without any crafting, but it adds a lot to the game.
 

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