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KC calls in sick Tomorrow

Ryuken

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
606
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Belgium
Beta will last a bit longer too (was supposed to end yesterday but it will go on until the 12th). Anyway, don't expect the absolute perfect game, there are still some clear issues (big group/long distance unit ass probing) and oddities which I am really curious about if GPG can fix them in the first (release day?) patch.

Here is a list of the (40) skirmish maps of the retailversion btw.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
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Germany
The performance wasn't satisfactory for me with an early beta build, so I'm pretty curious as to wether they actually were able to optimize the thing enough for me to consider a purchase. The removal of the debug code alone should give a bit of a boost, but I guess I'll see.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
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Messages
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Germany
Strategyinformer has it, too.
Still a waiting line, though.

Edit:

http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=75175

List of mirrors.
Good luck.

edit 2:

As all mirrors suck right now, I'd suggest visiting the piratebay and geting the torrent there.
It's the demo obviously, I'm getting roughly 700 kB/s on a DSL16000 line. Speeds varry a lot, though - and I might hit that spot where I've catched up with the other leechers, yet.
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
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Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
Gogo corporate internet connections. I waited on line 30 minutes at 3D Gamers and then the whole demo downloaded in 5 minutes flat. 2700 kb/s or so. Now just need to get through the rest of the day without going insane :)
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
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Messages
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Germany
My connection can do 1600 kb/s max, but my speeds at the various mirrors where for some reason REALLY crappy.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
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Cognitive Elite HQ
Awesome. If anyone gives a crap I'll be posting my comparison with Total Annihilation (and general impressions) after I play it.
 

Castanova

Prophet
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Messages
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I just played one skirmish game... maybe I need to play more or something but it seemed pretty boring. The larger scale makes it seem like such an effort just to mobilize an attack and it takes an eternity for your builders to get around. I think TA was perfect and this took it to a new (and not so fun) extreme.

Also, it seemed like there was too much crap to build. In TA, there was a ton of crap but it all did the same thing. In this game, it seems like I actually need to know what these units do. And all these three tiers of upgrades and shit?

I liked TA for the macromanagement, not the base micro.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
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Messages
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Cognitive Elite HQ
My computer isn't quite up to playing it, it seems, but so far it seems kinda spammy. I haven't totally figured out the UI yet, either, and when I click on the demo's tutorial thing it takes me to a blank page with the supreme commander logo in the background. :S
I read somewhere they you can get transports up as conveyor belts but I haven't found a way to do this yet.

My criticisms so far is that everything doesn't take very long to build, so basically you must play at -10 game speed to be efficient.

I hate that there is no attack-move (something that bugged me in TA as well), which I found out when my units ran into an enemy base, getting shot up, and proceeded to blow the crap out of a small patch of dirt.

I'll have to play it again later with the graphics turned down. Choppy games = bad games.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
Joined
Feb 21, 2005
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The Heart of It All
You can queue actions by holding shift. Works for building anyways. I think there is a lot more of the interface to learn to "get" this game. I hope there is a way to synch ETAs so I don't have some of my units arriving way before other units.
 

Thrawn05

Scholar
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
865
Location
The Mirror of Death void
I've played it for awhile, and I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed.

For one the hype about duel-monitor support is nothing to cream your pants about. It makes it hard to "edge-scroll" to the right (in fact, you can't). Plus there needs to be a setting to tone down the speed at which you pan the screen around. I'm constantly pausing the game so I can get the camera to where I want it.

IMHO, don't play this game at 1024x768. The UI takes up a lot of space.

Also, I hate to say it, but there really isn't nothing special about the AI. It's just a spammer. And the only way to counter a spammer is to spam it with your own units. Just build a few land facilities, and them pump units that go directly to the enemy base. Just make sure the units pass by the enemy mass extractors so that they will auto attack them and destroy them, crippling the AI economy.

I'll wait until this game drops in price. I'm not rushing out for this.

I am pleased that the keyboard shortcuts are more or less lifted right out of TA. Made the learning curve much shorter.
 

Ryuken

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
606
Location
Belgium
Castanova said:
Also, it seemed like there was too much crap to build. In TA, there was a ton of crap but it all did the same thing. In this game, it seems like I actually need to know what these units do. And all these three tiers of upgrades and shit?
There are actually less units than in TA, there is a difference yes in that not every unit can now target/hit airplanes. The upgrading of factories is a lot better (read: less micro) than creating a T2 factory with an engineer like in TA imo. Same goes for the mexes upgrading (instead of reclaiming old mex and building a Moho mine).

kingcomrade said:
My computer isn't quite up to playing it, it seems, but so far it seems kinda spammy. I haven't totally figured out the UI yet, either, and when I click on the demo's tutorial thing it takes me to a blank page with the supreme commander logo in the background. :S
Quite a mistake idd. Here is a good official FAQ though.
I read somewhere they you can get transports up as conveyor belts but I haven't found a way to do this yet.
Ferry Mode.

My criticisms so far is that everything doesn't take very long to build, so basically you must play at -10 game speed to be efficient.
Hmm, you can bring a lot more units faster into the game now but you got formation handling for that (rightclick+drag a group, left-click at the same time to cycle through formation modes).

I hate that there is no attack-move (something that bugged me in TA as well), which I found out when my units ran into an enemy base, getting shot up, and proceeded to blow the crap out of a small patch of dirt.
Press F12 in-game for a list of shortcuts, attack-moving (preferably in formation) is definitely possible, right now I think it is SHIFT-CTRL right-click (drag at the location you want for formation at the same time). EDIT: it's with ALT instead of CTRL I think.

I'll have to play it again later with the graphics turned down. Choppy games = bad games.
Had a nice boost after a reboot here. Wondering how long it'll last.
 

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
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Messages
2,949
Location
The White Visitation
For a game going for grand strategy, I would have preferred far more simplification in terms of units. I'm talking: light ground, heavy ground, scout plane, dog-fighter, bomber.. and that's it except for the experimentals. Coming up with a good mix of units and managing all my land factories is making my head explode. I thought micromanaging footmen in War3 was aggravating but this...

In TA, I literally just pumped random units while I worked toward a big bertha, a nuke, or a fleet of Rapiers. It was focused on map control and strategic strikes. SC seems to be focused on base-building and teching. Why do I need to think about three tiers of upgrades PER BUILDING? Why, in a supposedly grand strategy game, am I worrying about where my individual power generators are placed?
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
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Why do I need to think about three tiers of upgrades PER BUILDING? Why, in a supposedly grand strategy game, am I worrying about where my individual power generators are placed?
This kinda hints at what I don't like about it either. That sort of thing doesn't add anything to the game.

The AI is so terrible. It basically turtles, building dozens of turrets. I hate the naval balance. The ships take forever to build, but your shipyards can be levelled practically in seconds by one or two subs.
 

Greatatlantic

Erudite
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The Heart of It All
One thing I'm really not liking is the way the game handles resource management. In most games you pay one cost and you're done. In SC, the cost is paid out over a period of time, and is best thought of in terms of a total rate of change. While this may be more realistic, I keep running into the problem of ordering to much stuff and watching my economy grind to a halt while things still build at 50% efficiency or something like that. Maybe with practice I could get better at avoiding it, but until then its frustrating.
 

Dmitron

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,918
My initial impressions after 2 hours of skirmish play:

It's ok. I was hoping for RTS combined with actual grand strategy. The sense that you're taking part in a large scale battle isn't there. Finding myself too caught up in resource management to worry about tactics. Perhaps the mid to end game is better. Why did they place the map on "board" with a space background? Standard RTS with tons of units. My impression will probably change as I play more and get to grip with the intricacies..that reside beneath the micromanaging and the rushing.

AI doesn't seem all that revolutionary, though they are aggressive. I am forced to build a naval base immediately upon start. If I don't, I find myself locked out of the oceans. Even building a torpedo "turret" (forget the name) becomes a nightmare if I have no sea units right from the start.

Performance is ok on my mid-to-low machine (4200 X2 @2500, 7900GS, 2gig RAM) . I'm running medium to high, antialiasing disabled. I don't think the graphics are that great. Loads of drab low poly models. Sound is ok. Lacks the feeling of scale I mentioned before. Repetitive music.
As is expected it's quite laggy during battles. This even with a dual core system which apparently improves performance somewhat.

Dual screens are interesting. I don't often find myself actually looking at the second screen. Too busy micromanaging. I like the ability to track a single unit on the secondary display. Performance does suffer though. I have since disabled it.

Interface is too large for my 1280 x 1024 resolution. Rearranging the build options to the left or right of the screen does help (alt + up).

Not sure I could be bothered playing the single player.. The multiplayer is very appealing though.

I'm being too negative. Should take a few more games to start enjoying it. Once I get the hang of knowing which tech to build when.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
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I really don't like battling in this game. It's kinda hard to get everything moving in the right direction for some reason (this should never be a problem in an RTS), and getting them to actually shoot stuff. Always like maybe a dozen units go rushing off ahead and get blown up while the rest twaddle around with their dicks in their hands, then another dozen break free of the traffic and get blown up, etc.

Also it's hard to SEE what is going on. Frankly I do better when I'm playing zoomed-out because it's easier to see who is shooting at what.

The defenses are imbalanced. For the amount of time/resources they take to make, they can kill huge amounts of units, so if the enemy has 6-7 level 2 turrets you're stuck until you have artillery bases since there's no way you can produce enough units to overwhelm those defenses.

Frankly the way I've been winning is to turtle on land and dominate the seas, then rush the computer with a bunch of transformer destroyers. They have unreal range and if you've got radar they can sit out of sight and just blown the enemy base away.

The game isn't bad, but there's so much of it that isn't done right.

edit-
I've been playing more and as I learn the UI the game gets better. I still don't like the level-up scheme for individual buildings, but it is better than the ctrl-D that you had to use in TA. I'm going to take a break and play some Starcraft :)
 

Ryuken

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
606
Location
Belgium
Greatatlantic said:
One thing I'm really not liking is the way the game handles resource management. In most games you pay one cost and you're done. In SC, the cost is paid out over a period of time, and is best thought of in terms of a total rate of change. While this may be more realistic, I keep running into the problem of ordering to much stuff and watching my economy grind to a halt while things still build at 50% efficiency or something like that. Maybe with practice I could get better at avoiding it, but until then its frustrating.
That's the difficulty idd, staying on that edge between stalling and spending enough to not waste resources. Storages can help a lot though (building more factories also increases storage for both resources a bit), especially if you place them next to the resource buildings of the same resource (they'll improve the resource gathering then). Not that different than TA, assisting engineers can speed up things and make the upgrade process of a mex a lot more comfortable.

kingcomrade said:
I really don't like battling in this game. It's kinda hard to get everything moving in the right direction for some reason (this should never be a problem in an RTS), and getting them to actually shoot stuff. Always like maybe a dozen units go rushing off ahead and get blown up while the rest twaddle around with their dicks in their hands, then another dozen break free of the traffic and get blown up, etc.
You are using (multiple) formations?

The defenses are imbalanced. For the amount of time/resources they take to make, they can kill huge amounts of units, so if the enemy has 6-7 level 2 turrets you're stuck until you have artillery bases since there's no way you can produce enough units to overwhelm those defenses.
Depends on what race you're talking about, T2 Point Defence of UEF and Aeon only aim at the spot where the unit was at the moment they've fired so if you're moving sideways a bit you can dodge their fire mostly, Cybran T2 PD is insta hit but less damage although overall it's still the best when massed. If your opponent hasn't built TMD(tactical missile defence) everywhere, you can outtake a PD or any structure for that matter with missile launchers or by building stationary missile launchers which are cheap and have a bigger range/a lot more punch. If you are playing with UEF and Aeon, you can bring in mobile shield generators to absorb the first few turret shots. If all that doesn't work there is still flanking, overly effective massed gunships(/or a lot of smaller bots tucked in an air transport from which they can fire), backdoor air drops or just not letting someone build seven T2 PD's in one spot. On smaller maps with few chokepoints things can easily transform into a defence vs defence war though, but from all the maps I've seen that usually only happens on Fields of Isis where there are only two real chokepoints and no flanking options.

The AI in the demo is a Balanced AI, meaning it'll try a bit of everything (land, air, sea) while that isn't the best tactic on a map like Finn's Revenge (why GPG implemented it here in the demo is anyone's guess). Full game has Horde, Tech and Balanced AI's, so you "should" see better tactics, depending on which map is combined with a certain AI. Sea is important on Finn's but you can get easily overrun by ground troops when playing against more worthy opponents. Destroyers are very powerful idd, but T2 Missile Launchers/Stationary Missile Launchers are so too, as long as you have enough radar sight, Destro's are gonna be toast if they come too close. Same goes for T2 Torpedo Bombers or just T2 Gunships. Destroyers have AA (except for the Aeon version) but facing 5-10 gunships or Torpedo Bombers is the death of them.

Of course, if those are the only things you guys don't like, you'll prolly be more disappointed when you find out that T3 bots own all. Even a Peewee got its use in lategame TA against big Goliath Tanks for example. A lot better compared to the waste of small bots, or even the whole T1 tiers of SupCom, in lategame. There a lot of other gripes too, but you'll see them soon enough when you've played the game more. :) Got my limited edition pre-ordered already though, if GPG doesn't come up with fixes, then mods probably will.
 

Dmitron

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Joined
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Messages
1,918
kingcomrade said:
The defenses are imbalanced. For the amount of time/resources they take to make, they can kill huge amounts of units, so if the enemy has 6-7 level 2 turrets you're stuck until you have artillery bases since there's no way you can produce enough units to overwhelm those defenses.

Just finished my first skirmish game. Built a T3 artillery installation. Left it to fire at will and continued preparing for the first large battle of the game. Neither I or nor the AI had initiated any real offensive action. I was hoping for a massive battle. Three minutes later, to my surprise, I get a victory pop-up. I assume the artillery had destroyed the enemy commander?
 

Dmitron

Arbiter
Joined
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Messages
1,918
Elwro said:
Dmitron said:
Performance is ok on my mid-to-low machine (4200 X2 @2500, 7900GS, 2gig RAM) .
lol @ "mid-to-low"

This is what happens when the majority of your friends are FPS obsessed and you worked for a company that continually updated it's workstations..
 

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