Wasteland This combat is very annoying

[Jasede]

I don't like how I shoot at someone from max sniper rifle range and once combat starts and they get their turn, they run 40 tiles and are next to my guys; further than my sniper rifle can shoot.

Must be a Supreme Jerk design decision...

 

[Greatness]

I don't like how I shoot at someone from max sniper rifle range and once combat starts and they get their turn, they run 40 tiles and are next to my guys; further than my sniper rifle can shoot.
Must be a Supreme Jerk design decision...

Nope, it's like that on all difficulties. Supposably it's a bug.

 

[Mantiis]

I don't like how I shoot at someone from max sniper rifle range and once combat starts and they get their turn, they run 40 tiles and are next to my guys; further than my sniper rifle can shoot.
Must be a Supreme Jerk design decision...

Nope, it's like that on all difficulties. Supposably it's a bug.

Source? If it is a bug i might wait til the patch.

I can live with most things regarding the terrible implementation of the combat but the "heavy gunner running from the other side of the fence, across a battle field, strolling by all my melee guys and stopping right in front of the sniper at the back of the party just to slap him in the face with his cock before he shoots him" is getting old really fast.

 

[Norfleet]

Well, I made a tweak which greatly resolved much of my annoyance with the system: I made it so the attacker has a significant initiative boost which will let them move first before all but the most crazy-ninja-fast opponents, which sort of resolves my complaint about being unable to properly set up for combat. So if you blunder into an NPC ambush, you're gonna get shot to shit even worse than you do now, but if you spot them and fire first, you'll get to shoot 'em up before they can run into your face. It makes no sense that they get to move before you do, when you are the attacker and there wouldn't even be a fight if you were not attacking them.

 

[Greatness]

I don't like how I shoot at someone from max sniper rifle range and once combat starts and they get their turn, they run 40 tiles and are next to my guys; further than my sniper rifle can shoot.
Must be a Supreme Jerk design decision...

Nope, it's like that on all difficulties. Supposably it's a bug.

Source? If it is a bug i might wait til the patch

Fargo tweeted about them looking into fixing it, but I really hate that website and am not going to go looking for it. Here's another post from the official forums by sea that also confirms it as a bug.

 

[Visperas]

Well, I made a tweak which greatly resolved much of my annoyance with the system: I made it so the attacker has a significant initiative boost which will let them move first before all but the most crazy-ninja-fast opponents, which sort of resolves my complaint about being unable to properly set up for combat. So if you blunder into an NPC ambush, you're gonna get shot to shit even worse than you do now, but if you spot them and fire first, you'll get to shoot 'em up before they can run into your face. It makes no sense that they get to move before you do, when you are the attacker and there wouldn't even be a fight if you were not attacking them.

That might be interesting. Can you elaborate a bit? If one of your party initiates combat by shooting someone, your whole party gets an initiative boost for the first turn or is it for the whole combat? Can you share that, plox?

 

[Norfleet]

That might be interesting. Can you elaborate a bit? If one of your party initiates combat by shooting someone, your whole party gets an initiative boost for the first turn or is it for the whole combat? Can you share that, plox?

If you initiate combat by firing first, your team receives a starting initiative boost to put you at the front of the move order. It only affects the first turn, giving the attacker basically turn 0, instead of the current situation where you fire ONE bullet, then the entire enemy roster gets to move, because all NPCs have basically hax initiative ratings.

The same would apply if an NPC fires first, only to them...but I've never seen an NPC fire first. Either way, Han shoots first.

 

[Visperas]

Shit Norfleet, that is awesome! Would you be so kind to share that mod? On the other hand it might make the game too easy but I want to try it.

 

[Norfleet]

Shit Norfleet, that is awesome! Would you be so kind to share that mod? On the other hand it might make the game too easy but I want to try it.

I could share it, yes. I would have to cut it out from my other experiments...doubt it would make the game too easy. The difficulty level of the game isn't really high in any event, it just really cuts down on the grinding annoyance level of having all of your quest tagalongs slain instantly before you are even allowed to move, despite being the one to attack. Basically won't do anything at all if you are the one being attacked, and sort of emphasizes vision range and scouting as more important than before (before it was basically worthless because the AI would always move first no matter what).

Also currently trying to figure out if it is possible NOT to move first, to make it possible to intentionally delay a move.

 

[Visperas]

Shit Norfleet, that is awesome! Would you be so kind to share that mod? On the other hand it might make the game too easy but I want to try it.

I could share it, yes. I would have to cut it out from my other experiments...doubt it would make the game too easy. The difficulty level of the game isn't really high in any event, it just really cuts down on the grinding annoyance level of having all of your quest tagalongs slain instantly before you are even allowed to move, despite being the one to attack. Basically won't do anything at all if you are the one being attacked, and sort of emphasizes vision range and scouting as more important than before (before it was basically worthless because the AI would always move first no matter what).

Also currently trying to figure out if it is possible NOT to move first, to make it possible to intentionally delay a move.

I would love to try it. Also, how are you doing all the modifications? I might want to try doing my own but have little modding knowledge. Are you using ilspy?

 

[Norfleet]

I would love to try it. Also, how are you doing all the modifications? I might want to try doing my own but have little modding knowledge. Are you using ilspy?

My understanding is that ilspy is view-only so is of no help. I noticed someone else has modded a tedious annoyance, so downloaded theirs to see how this process worked, noticed that it was using the same things I was already using to mod Sims 3, and so I pulled it open in ildasm and ilasm.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

It's pretty good for a first try, or rather a new start. I like it so far but I agree they could have added in way more options to the combat and it seems slapped together. Maybe WL 3 kickstarter will come ones all the patches are done, and we can get some better combat there.

 

[Jaesun]

It's pretty good for a first try, or rather a new start. I like it so far but I agree they could have added in way more options to the combat and it seems slapped together.

What other options should they add?

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

What other options should they add?

The main ones I'd like to see are Crouch and Prone that actually matter and a Throwing skill that affects both range and accuracy of your throwing. I think that any squad game has to have those as a minimum. It's not really a serious squad game but they should be simple to add in.

Another issue is the whole scale of time seems a bit off. Too much happens in a single round, you can run too far and shoot too much.

 

[Jasede]

I really miss aimed shots. Unlike most people I actually used them for more than shooting into people's eyes in Fallout. For example, in the boxing match in Fallout 2, it was very useful to cripple the enemy's legs so you could kite him. That added depth. And with how far enemies can move in this game, leg-shots would be a fun addition.

 

[Norfleet]

I really miss aimed shots. Unlike most people I actually used them for more than shooting into people's eyes in Fallout. For example, in the boxing match in Fallout 2, it was very useful to cripple the enemy's legs so you could kite him.

I just went for the eyes again. I think I pretty much killed every opponent in one round from that. You do 3 points of damage! Your opponent DIES!

That added depth. And with how far enemies can move in this game, leg-shots would be a fun addition.

I think with how far enemies can move, it won't help at all because by the time you can get to use such a thing, he is already in your face. And apparently, the crazy, crazy movement is a bug and may stop at some point.

But you know what would be more useful? NPC tag-alongs that didn't immediately ZERG INTO THE FACE OF THE ENEMY. I am currently examining the position evaluation functions and looking to code a "No Support From Allies" discouragement penalty, so that it uncontrolled teammembers (cough Leeroy Vargas cough) will not attempt to solo 5 enemies at once while running out of fire support coverage from the rest of the team).

 

[sser]

It wouldn't surprise me if enemy move range is a bug. I've seen guys move very, very far. Like at the Wrecker's place, I had a guy go from the top of a tower, down it, around it, across the grounds, past an ambushing Rose, turned back around, and went across the jutting rock that gives you a bit of high ground from the place's entrance. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. One, because it was an insane amount of distance, and two, because the guy had a sniper rifle. I think the bug, if there is one, is that the guy is in your FOV, ducks into the fog of war, and must come out the other side with boosted AP...? I don't know. It's always weird as fuck to see, and extremely awkward.

 

[Norfleet]

I've seen weirder. I was in a battle against some badgers in the Titan Canyon, where I sensibly stood on a piece of high ground, since badgers can't climb ladders, and was prepared to simply start shooting them to shit. My NPC tag-alongs, like that monk, managed to discover a BACK ladder, and run ALL THE WAY AROUND THE MAP, to attack an enemy I couldn't even see, let alone shoot at...in a single turn. I suppose once I get around to tweaking that AI routine, the idiocy ought to stop.

 

[Tigranes]

I've seen weirder. I was in a battle against some badgers in the Titan Canyon, where I sensibly stood on a piece of high ground, since badgers can't climb ladders, and was prepared to simply start shooting them to shit. My NPC tag-alongs, like that monk, managed to discover a BACK ladder, and run ALL THE WAY AROUND THE MAP, to attack an enemy I couldn't even see, let alone shoot at...in a single turn. I suppose once I get around to tweaking that AI routine, the idiocy ought to stop.

Yeah, I've seen dudes move something crazy like 6 turns' worth in the Prison Danforth fight. It really is incredible how that's a release day bug.

 

[Cyberarmy]

And with how far enemies can move in this game, leg-shots would be a fun addition.

The thing is, there is already a leg injury debuff ingame, some animals (dogs,rats) can apply it which lowers your speed. Robots can stun you to similar effect. They can use this kind of attacks like headshot.

 

[Spockrock]

I have never played a game that didn't have 'repetitive' combat/game play.

try Frozen Synapse

 

[Darth Roxor]

I fucking hate the scorpitrons, and whoever thought adding them into the game in their current state was a good idea obviously didn't think it through.

 

[Norfleet]

I fucking hate the scorpitrons, and whoever thought adding them into the game in their current state was a good idea obviously didn't think it through.

What's wrong with Scorpitrons? Isn't there all of about 3 in the entire game? They're start-screen icons. How can you hate them?

 

[RK47]

I don't like how I shoot at someone from max sniper rifle range and once combat starts and they get their turn, they run 40 tiles and are next to my guys; further than my sniper rifle can shoot.

Must be a Supreme Jerk design decision...

Happens all the time to me. The sad part was 'MWA-HA I GOT U NOW RANGERS - NEXT TURN' kind of AI response followed by a Rangers' whole-team alpha strike on their face.
But to me, the most annoying is the LOS uncertainty - for a game that is nearly about Ranged Combat you want to make sure LOS system is pretty solid.
So far I'm not impressed, there's too much AP being wasted just to test whether the 'Sight Blocked!' comes up.
Hey, DM - I'd love to know if I move to that tile will put me in the line of fire or not.
What? I can't figure it out till I move there?
C'mon - that's fine in RTWP since minor adjustments can be made, but wasting AP in TB just for this little nonsense is too much.

 

[RK47]

I fucking hate the scorpitrons, and whoever thought adding them into the game in their current state was a good idea obviously didn't think it through.

What's wrong with Scorpitrons? Isn't there all of about 3 in the entire game? They're start-screen icons. How can you hate them?

Having not encountered one yet, I would say it's hardly a tactical battle when all you did is simply outlast the behemoth HP monster over rounds and rounds of bullet spam and healing, is it?