Wasteland This combat is very annoying

[Mangoose]

Except, they aren't. A firesquad is (usually) armed with one regular rifleman, squad leader with rifle (or perhaps shotgun) and grenade launcher, a light machine gun, and an assistant to the LMG (said assistant carrying a rifle). Light arms are for assault, and it doesn't really matter what they carry as long as they flank/assault the enemy while the enemy is suppressed (well, it does matter what they carry depending on the situation). "Heavy" arms is for fire support aka suppression, and the assistant has a rifle because he's at long range. If LMG guy falls assistant takes over, rifle doesn't matter. Fire and movement/maneuver, learn about it sometime.

You might be referring to fireteams, not firesquads. A squad is much bigger than a fireteam and a firing squad is something else entirely. More importantly, fireteams are a fairly limited phenomenon. For instance, if we look at something like the former Soviet military, the structure of which persists in modern CIS armies, the smallest military unit would indeed be a squad, consisting of up to sixteen individuals depending on its branch (designated medic squads traditionally consist of only four people, often unarmed, allowing for easier evacuation of the wounded). This changes the distribution of LMGs drastically. Furthermore, you will find very few shotguns in any given modern army or police unit. This is very much a US-centric phenomenon. Most armies rely almost exclusively on automatic rifles for most of their personnel, with specialised weaponry given to specialised roles. Not knives, clubs, anti-materiel rifles or shotguns. Even in your fairly specific example, three out of four men would be carrying a rifle.
I left it out quite purposefully, since it's largely irrelevant to W2, which has no suppressive fire mechanics and only a fairly rudimentary depiction of explosive weaponry, but there you go. X-COM was a much more interesting game in this regard. Here's a picture of a glorious Swiss army squad armed with glorious Swiss rifles next to their equally glorious Swiss APC:

Spoiler

Well now you're being pedantic, but I can't complain because I was being pedantic lol.

Yeah, I should've said fireteams. Squad in US is either 2 or 3 fireteams (Army vs Marines).

But I guess I was trying to say that while rifles are prevalent in number they are not the only tactical focus. In the majority of cases - in every nation's army - ~half of the squad members support the heavy gun and ~half carry out the assault. Not that the gun group doesn't shoot, but they shoot to cover the assault group and to support the LMG. Ex: http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Tactics/Formations/rifle_squad.htm

I suppose my point is not that rifles were not used, but that not all riflemen were preoccupied with the main purpose of killing with the rifle. Actually, the assault group doesn't necessarily actually "assault" with their rifles. If they can indirectly use their rifles and grenades to flush the enemy out of their position, that lets the fire group rain hell on them.

 

[toro]

And they can even CRIT with said ENERGY WEAPONS even though it's impossible?

Some explanation:

Energy Weapons are only really good against enemies who have an Armor Rating ABOVE the weapon's Armor Threshold. You can see the Armor Threshold of each Energy Weapon by looking at its description. Generally, you'll do half damage if their Armor Rating is below that number, normal damage if its equal to that number, and double damage if its more than that number.

I think by the end of the game you had 7+ armor on all your guys therefore the CotC gunners were doing 2.2x damage.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Some explanation:

No, ffs, I stripped everyone of armour, and the damage pop ups were *crits*, all red and jagged.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Some explanation:

No, ffs, I stripped everyone of armour, and the damage pop ups were *crits*, all red and jagged.

Yup that happens a lot.

 

[Mantiis]

New patch and combat is much better:

http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/99930440396/wasteland-2-patch-2-58214-release-notes

Hollywood is a lot less shit as well.

 

[Cyberarmy]

"Meson Cannon attack comes from the center of it, so you can’t hide under its barrel anymore."

Ouch.

 

[Immortal]

New patch and combat is much better:

http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/99930440396/wasteland-2-patch-2-58214-release-notes

Hollywood is a lot less shit as well.

Loading now continues when the game is tabbed out, and pauses after finishing.

 

[Cyberarmy]

That's quite a funny way to say "We haven't figured how to shorten loading times" so just go surf a while.
Not that I had any problems with loading times BTW, I played King Quest 8 with a really shitty computer, no loading screen can bother me again!

 

[Immortal]

That's quite a funny way to say "We haven't figured how to shorten loading times" so just go surf a while.
Not that I had any problems with loading times BTW, I played King Quest 8 with a really shitty computer, no loading screen can bother me again!

I play WL2 in Windowed Mode and alt tab all the time regardless of loading screens or not.. It was super annoying for me..

 

[Leonard DeVir]

So, they are able to pause the game after its done loading, but we dont get a pause function for setting up our team pre-combat. I dont even.

 

[Disgruntled]

Ive tried a bit of combat after the patch and the AP bugfix is a noticeable improvement. However, I still feel like im planted to one spot in most encounters, theres little incentive to use AP moving when you can start killing instead.
Bomb chuckers are either a target for the first volley or get to throw their grenades before I get a chance to avoid them, so they dont really factor in to break the cycle.

I think it is down to the jarring transition between real time and turn based. In xcom you are constantly going cover to cover, whereas here its bunched up until pitched battle. Might not be an easy solution beyond placing every encounter in large turn-based zones or having a turn-base button that you can switch into for approach (correct me if such a button exists and ive missed it all this time).

 

[Jasede]

It's funny on SJ when 1 rocket kills your team that started bunched up, doing 300 damage. (But you can avoid such situations, usually.)

 

[SymbolicFrank]

If you want to make melee viable in a gunfight (which it should only be in very cramped quarters), you need melee to have the same DPS as gunslingers and riflemen. Not that a handgun is equal to a rifle in anything but cramped quarters either. And an SMG would kill all in those cramped corners, with a shotgun being very lethal to a single enemy. So, all just the opposite of how it is in the game.

Anyway, if you want the DPS to be the same for all weapon types, you need to:

1. Being able to reach the enemy with your weapon. So melee users will have to be able to run very fast and far.
2. Do more damage with your fists than with a rifle, to compensate for the shots you can make with a rifle at range.
3. Make rifles (and handguns to a lesser degree) less useful the shorter the range. Point-blank range becoming about 10 times the length of the weapon.
4. Make the range of firearms about 1% of the real-life range. A bit better for handguns, and worse for rifles.

 

[oneself]

New patch and combat is much better:

http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/99930440396/wasteland-2-patch-2-58214-release-notes

Hollywood is a lot less shit as well.

I don't see any significant combat improvements in terms of weapon balance. Pretty much just bugfixes.

 

[imweasel]

Combat isn't shit, but some stuff like gun balancing isn't so great. Assault rifles are by far the best guns in the game. SMGs and pistols are total shit, so avoid using those skills in your builds.

 

[Volourn]

SMGs are fukkin' awesome. FUCK OFF.

 

[SniperHF]

Yeah, I have pretty good luck with the MP5 + headshot bursts. Not quite Assault Rifle good but cheaper to use.

 

[imweasel]

Assault rifles are better than SMGs in every way, the best SMG in the game is nothing compared to the G43 assault rifle. SMGs might be a bit cheaper to use, but ammo really isn't rare at all, not to mention that I had 28,000 scrap at the end of the game (on hard difficulty).

 

[Levenmouth]

It's just realistic. I've had the same thing happen in Shadowrun Returns. Just have as many automatic rifles as you can and you're golden.

 

[Silva]

So, did combat get better or not ?

Also, can I use a Groza or Vintorez in this game ? I'm a bitch for Russian guns.

 

[Cazzeris]

So, did combat get better or not ?

Wait for the balance patch.

Still, I really doubt inXile will add enough features post-release to make the combat deeper and more varied, interesting and tactical. I'd love to be wrong this time, though.

 

[Azrael the cat]

In all honesty, I found that the vaunted AR-team, a specialist skill+charisma monkey with smg/energy, and a balanced team of rangers and NPCS (2 assault, one of which also maxed pistols, one sniper/blunt, one shotgun/knife, one energu/smg skill-monkey, one brawling/heavy, the California NPC with heavy/blade (important: used cheap 556 ammo due to unique gun with lower damage but 10 armour pen, and had stats for best normal blade weapon, so Scotchmo got to branch his hobo duties from shotgun/animal-friend to 'That os a knife') on ranger AND supreme jerk, and they all felt similarly viable when played to their strengths. Whem using a skilll monkey on SJ you should be taking all the low-hanging quest and skill-use fruit from places like Rail Nomad and Monks AGES before you actually complete those places - your charisma/int skillmonkey should be 5+ levels ahead by halfway through California- enough for him to hit any enemy with 100% accuracy on the death ray at least a turn before they can move into attack range (similarly, anything in SMG range should be 100% for a burst headshot a LONG time before anyone other than your sniper can do similar - by California there's no way he should be a wasted ranger in combat, espec once you give him engagement ring to give him decent initiative).

More the point, the game loading hints seems to have it right. When going with an AR-reliant team on SJ I was always broke due to to having to buy ammo, and that meant I got good weapons much later. Lack of weapon diversity lowered the impact of requisitions (with a balanced squad, Scotchmo got the end-game shotgun, Jackhammer, on requisition before leaving Arizona, and boy could that thiing tear up any melee enemies (as they bunch up - also great for nested enemies like grenade lobbers and snippers who tend to stick together - they try to use hard cover to block sight and avoid being targeted, so Sotchy just used that cover against them and regularly did 200-300 damage per round due to the number of enemies hit.

Diverse roles (power armour on sniper, as opens combat in best position and shouldn't need tp move much per round; spectrum armour for shotty/blade to ensure speed to maximise targetsm etc) gives you MUCH greater flexibility, and almost every 'hard' SJ fight people bitch about is only hard due to inadequate role diversity. Diverse weapons also means you rarely need to buy ammo, and get ultra-rich early - evens out a lot in a game where gear makes so much difference, and the best geaar is often bough. And skill-monkey's ability to do quests ahead of schedule meant that my brawker also got to level up, directly increasing his brawling damage,

 

[4too]

Being True To Your School

In all honesty, …

For knowing how to have a good time sliding UP the classic RPG learning curve,

For leaving rancorous, bitter, post millennial internet snarky-ness to the agenda burdened personas,

Azrael the cat is here by awarded the Be True To Your School ACHIEVEMENT !!1!

{Punctuated with 3 excited exclamation marks, to honor the freshness of effervescence, the being here now, the joy of the moment !!1!}










4too

 

[Norfleet]

Diverse roles (power armour on sniper, as opens combat in best position and shouldn't need tp move much per round;

Power Armor on Sniper would be kinda pointless, IMO. As the guy who is NOT exposed to fire because he's shooting enemies from way back before they can even attack him, the only shots that will fly his way are long-ranged energy bolts, and they will fuck you up if you're using power armor. In fact, I would say power armor is basically pointless because by the time you get it, it's working against you, and you're past the point in the game where you'll be doing remedial wasteland wandering and bumping into random low-level raiders.

spectrum armour for shotty/blade to ensure speed to maximise targetsm etc) gives you MUCH greater flexibility, and almost every 'hard' SJ fight people bitch about is only hard due to inadequate role diversity.

Blade guy doesn't really NEED to do that much moving, enemies are all too eager to close with you. You're pretty much just standing there waiting for the survivors of the enemy to arrive.

Diverse weapons also means you rarely need to buy ammo, and get ultra-rich early - evens out a lot in a game where gear makes so much difference, and the best geaar is often bough.

I honestly find that buying ammo is never the problem. I regularly clean out shops of their ammo simply as barter for the junk I am unloading because they are out of money. I have never run out of ammo, perhaps because only about 3 or 4 of my guys even use ANY ammo, and of those, only 2 of them will chew up ammo to any significant degree. You don't go through all that much ammo firing single shots or using your fists.