Gamasutra reopens RPG grave

[suibhne]

Following up on <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17512">an earlier newspost</a>, be advised that Gamasutra continues to peddle its dastardly fiction that the RPG genre predates <i>Oblivion</i>. Author Matt Barton concludes his series on RPG history with <a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070411/barton_01.shtml">The Platinum and Modern Ages (1994-2004)</a>.

In this final installment, Barton touches on RPG titles mostly forgotten in today's market - for example, <i>Shadows over Riva</i>, <i>Amberstar</i>, and obscure Rogue-like <i>Diablo</i>. At its best, his article also contextualizes tried-and-true classics like <i>Daggerfall</i> and <i>Darklands</i> within a longer cultural tradition. This concluding piece is more difficult to follow than earlier installments, however, partly because it's less chronologically linear. (He missed the memo from modern RPG designers: linear is the new pink!) This period in RPG history is noteworthy for the end of long-established franchises like <i>Ultima</i> and <i>Might and Magic</i>, and for the progressive dismantling of previous game design traditions by new titles like <i>Ultima Underworld</i> and <i>Fallout</i>; the article is not always an effective guide.

Barton's conclusion is interesting - that "the best CRPGs of all time have been far more a matter of craft than revolution, of paradigms coming together rather than breaking apart" - but his neglect of the indie RPG scene leads him to miss one of the most compelling emerging stories within the genre: the redefinition (de-definition?) of "RPG" by mainstream market successes such as <i>Knights of the Old Republic</i> and <i>Morrowind</i>, and its potential re-reinvention by the persistent indie RPG community.

 

[Higher Game]

That was solid. Stuff like that is why I gave up hype-filled print magazines in favor of web articles. That was written by a true RPG fan.

 

[Volourn]

"the redefinition (de-definition?) of "RPG" by mainstream market successes such as Knights of the Old Republic and Morrowind"

Eh?

MW is nothing but an updated version of DF.

Not to mention what exatcly is the 'old skool' defintion of RPG?

Party based dungeon crawls ala GB games, Wizardry, M&?M et al?

Story focused like the FF games?

RT solo character large, empty world like DF?

Games like FO?


Seriously, how can you redefine something that didn't really have a set defintion to begin with?

Even in the guy's history, he goes over tons of games that were all considered RPGs in one wya or other depsite being vastly different from one another.


R00fles!


P.S. The article is a nice triup down memory lane; but adds nothing really new nor is really all that pertinent.

 

[Nedrah]

Look, seeing how it has bits like this:

Needless to say, Ascension was a sad way for this grand old series to end. It was as if George Lucas had died just after rushing Jar Jar and the Ewoks Save Christmas into theaters.

and how it managed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when thinking about those times and at the same time induce sadnes concerning the present...

Stop fucking bitching about how this article doesn't add anything new when it's one of the very few pieces that even as much as mention the glorious past that the now desolated genre that's called "crpg" has. There's just not all that much to say about those games that hasn't been said before - still it was a very insightfull article, and more importantly, there's no need to bitch about this kind of publication when 95% of what you can get is Hype and Obliviloving

 

[Volourn]

If it's posted, ther eis a need to bitch. Espicially, since the article isn't perfect. If soemthing is not eprfetc; the Codex is the place to bitch about it's flaws. Period.

I'm also surprised nobody ehre has bitched about him calling BG 'turn based combat'. R00fles!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I agree with Volourn. The fact that its better than most stuff out there doesnt make the article immune to critique.

Some parts were quite enjoyable, then again parts like this were horrible:

Yet, there are plenty of gamers out there still playing Rogue and running the classics on emulators or via nifty new services like GameTap (see this list of GameTap’s RPGs). Games like Oblivion, Dungeon Siege II, and Neverwinter Nights II continue to show up on the charts, and an undisputed masterpiece like Knights of the Old Republic is still enough to win over old fans and introduce hordes of new gamers to the genre.

What the hell?

 

[Nedrah]

I wasn't talking about how it isn't open to any critique.
I just happen to dislike the damning, bashing kind of criticizing that refuses to appreciate a piece for what it is because one doesn't agree with every single point it makes.

Edit:

Yes, I can see how parts like

One way of thinking about Arena is as a combination of two Ultima games: The Stygian Abyss and The Black Gate. While Arena offered real-time, 3D, first-person perspective like The Stygian Abyss, it also features a realistic game world like The Black Gate's. Not only do players observe the passing of time from night and day, but it even rains and snows according to the season!

would detract from the overall quality of the article. "Wow, it has day/night cycles! It's totally like U7 all over again!!!(!!!!!)"

My point about not damning the whole thing because of some controversional parts still stands. Oh, and KOTOR was a very fun, if forgettable, experience for me.

 

[Volourn]

Who said they didn;'t appreciate it.

I, afterall, did state quite clearly in my intiial post thta it was a nice trip down memory lane.

So, how in the fuck did I do this "I just happen to dislike the damning, bashing kind of criticizing that refuses to appreciate a piece for what it is"

You, Fellow Poster, are being foolish. Not surprising to find such foolishness on the Codex though.

R00fles!

 

[Nedrah]

It must be hard for you, the last bastion of intelligence and decency on these boards, to cope with "fellow posters" like me. However, it would have been nice to start with something positive about how it's good to read about some truely remarkable games from time to time instead of pointing out some (and not even the worst!) flaws.

Diablo and Diablo II are truly CRPGs for the masses. At the risk of sounding like a jaded old curmudgeon, I can't help but feel a pang of regret about the overwhelming triumph of this series, since it seems to have come at the expense of the older, more sophisticated CRPGs of past eras.

The guy does seem to have his heart in the right place as far as rpgs are concerned, fuck some slip ups or different oppinions here and there on his part.

 

[Ion Flux]

Seriously, how can you redefine something that didn't really have a set defintion to begin with?

This is actually a pretty good point. I know some people are quite dogmatic about what constitutes an RPG, but in reality the lines on the Venn diagram are pretty fuzzy.

But if the article does nothing more than introduce some people to the truly great games of the genre, then it really is worthwhile.

 

[Section8]

Yet, there are plenty of gamers out there still playing Rogue and running the classics on emulators or via nifty new services like GameTap (see this list of GameTap’s RPGs). Games like Oblivion, Dungeon Siege II, and Neverwinter Nights II continue to show up on the charts, and an undisputed ass-terpiece like Knights of the Old Republic is still enough to win over old fans and introduce hordes of new gamers to the genre.

Fixed.

 

[JarlFrank]

Like Pool of Radiance, Baldur’s Gate, or Fallout, the next big CRPG won’t be so much about doing something new, but doing something right.

Amen.

 

[stargelman]

MW is nothing but an updated version of DF.

Bzzzzzzt, thank you for playing.

 

[suibhne]

I was disappointed with the article because I thought the first two installments were tighter and more logical. As I mentioned in the newspost, I also thought he missed some of the interesting story that could have been told about RPGs since the early or mid '90s. I'm still glad the article exists, especially to give context for new RPG "fans" who didn't play anything prior to Morrowind or Oblivion.