Retardo Does anyone know what this thread is about?

[set]

Not really upset, just trying to make a point about the virtues of fast travel. I actually think it is a really great game. Haste potions is a good idea, I will look into that tomorrow.

It's faulty design if travelling is not fun. Simple as that. Instant teleportation at no cost is game-breaking for something like Skyrim. The game would be a lot better paced if, instead of being able to teleport anywhere whenever you want, you slowly accumulated better means of travel.

Foot -- Free, slowest - level 1-*
Wagon/Taxi -- Cheap, limited locations, still not that fast - level 1-*
Horse - Initial investment, still not that fast - level 20-* usually
Dragon Mount/Air vehicle - Story element, still not instant - level 40-*
Teleportation/Waygate - Story element, instant, limited locations - level 60-*
Pure teleportation - Mages only? Costs mana. Has a cooldown. 80-*

A system like this makes more sense. And if you did air vehicle/dragon mount right, you could let players explore while they are travelling (Oh look down there! That looks interesting, let's go check it out!). The whole point of the journey is not the destination, it's the journey itself. Fast travel removes the journey from the adventure and defeats the purpose of playing a fucking sandbox. Jesus christ, it's retarded fast travel is now "standard" for sandbox games.

Make moving fun at the very least. Let non-mages gain high agility or something, lots of haste buffs to break up the tedium. There are lots of ways to do it, but Bethesda took the worst way out.

 

[Darkzone]

Fast Travel and Respawn. Both are shit.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

The whole point of the journey is not the destination, it's the journey itself.

I agree.

Fast travel removes the journey from the adventure

It does not though, you can still go on the journey, nobody is forcing anyone to teleport around. It is just a mechanic that you may or may not use.

 

[Lhynn]

It does not though, you can still go on the journey, nobody is forcing anyone to teleport around. It is just a mechanic that you may or may not use.

But it does, game was designed around this mechanic, thus traveling was made pretty boring, because it was not needed after a point.

 

[Morality Games]

Loren the Amazon Princess 2 comes out in 2015 doesn't it?

That. Everything else is shit.

 

[Nutmeg]

OP,

The idea that work and effort are tradeable for ingenuity and strategic reasoning are at the very core of the difference between strategy games and role playing games.

So yes, it would make sense that people who enjoy role playing games enjoy the ability to gain absolute power in their games with much effort.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

kingcomrade Wyrmlord thread? Time to post some fucking Warhammer 40K Warhammer Fantasy

 

[Gozma]

I'd like a system kind of like Morrowind's except with a whole fast travel interface implemented that integrates different fast travel options together so you only have to sit through one loading screen at the end. Like say you can walk manually to a silt strider, which then puts you at the fast travel interface. Say you've added the silt strider network and the boat ride network to your travel options. The fast travel interface plots a path on an undetailed world map where it goes from where you are, to a coastal town, to the boat, to the destination, pops up how much it will cost and how long it will take, confirm, load screen, you're there.

I always thought that unlocking more fast travel stuff is a great piece of "loot" I valued way way more than a +6% defense bracer or whatever in that kind of game, but I hate the "N-leg fast travel journey where I have to walk through 4 boring safe locations and sit through 6 loading screens" thing.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

What's this with having to run about always in Gothic, we have fast travel teleporter stones too man.

 

[the_shadow]

The reason the fast travel option is available in Skyrim is because the game is so content-dense, the developers didn't need to pad it out with meaningless busywork. If the player wants to explore surrounding areas, they can. If they want to simply go back to town to collect a reward and offload their gear, they don't need to waste 10 minutes traveling across areas they have already cleared.

As to complaints about the Skyrim leveling system, all I have to say is 'LOL'. In D&D you pick your class at the start of the game, and your skills are allocated according to your class as you progress through the game. In Skyrim (and TES in general), you pick your skills, and your 'class' (such as it is) forms over time. Your identity as a player is more dynamic. You are a blank slate, and what you choose to specialise in is determined throughout the game. D&D puts the cart before the horse, whereas TES puts the horse before the cart. How is this a problem, exactly?

And you can't become a master of everything in Skyrim during normal play. Maybe if you played the game for 10,000 hours grinding skills, but apparently the people whinging about the leveling system would never play the game long enough to do this. If you play the game normally, you might be able to get to 100 in two or three chosen skills, if lucky.

 

[SCO]

I loved gathering serpent tooths in serpent isle (those that don''t know, they're the keys in the teleport network of the place). I was always sad that there were not enough to fill the two jawbones. So yes, teleport keys are a great piece of lot.

 

[octavius]

kingcomrade Wyrmlord thread? Time to post some fucking Warhammer 40K Warhammer Fantasy

In a world revolving around warfare you'd think helmets would have been standard issue.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's fantasy, therefore it's OK.

 

[laclongquan]

It's Warhammer idiocy, of course it's OK.

 

[Lhynn]

Man, fuck helmets.

 

[Crevice tab]

The reason the fast travel option is available in Skyrim is because the game is so content-dense, the developers didn't need to pad it out with meaningless busywork. If the player wants to explore surrounding areas, they can. If they want to simply go back to town to collect a reward and offload their gear, they don't need to waste 10 minutes traveling across areas they have already cleared.

As to complaints about the Skyrim leveling system, all I have to say is 'LOL'. In D&D you pick your class at the start of the game, and your skills are allocated according to your class as you progress through the game. In Skyrim (and TES in general), you pick your skills, and your 'class' (such as it is) forms over time. Your identity as a player is more dynamic. You are a blank slate, and what you choose to specialise in is determined throughout the game. D&D puts the cart before the horse, whereas TES puts the horse before the cart. How is this a problem, exactly?

And you can't become a master of everything in Skyrim during normal play. Maybe if you played the game for 10,000 hours grinding skills, but apparently the people whinging about the leveling system would never play the game long enough to do this. If you play the game normally, you might be able to get to 100 in two or three chosen skills, if lucky.

And you don't see any problem with your character being a blank slate? No problem with not having any sort of real choice on what you are when you start the game beyond the purely cosmetic "Am I a furry or a giant lizard"? Much . Too much. If Skyrim would actually place an emphasis on careful leveling after character creation I'd be more inclined to give it a pass but the game is pretty easy and many of the skills are utterly useless (need anything beyond a functioning pair of eyes in order to pick locks? No? There you are then).

 

[Raghar]

In a world revolving around warfare you'd think helmets would have been standard issue.

Considering theirs owners tends to be idiots...

 

[Zanzoken]

The reason the fast travel option is available in Skyrim is because the game is so content-dense, the developers didn't need to pad it out with meaningless busywork. If the player wants to explore surrounding areas, they can. If they want to simply go back to town to collect a reward and offload their gear, they don't need to waste 10 minutes traveling across areas they have already cleared.

As to complaints about the Skyrim leveling system, all I have to say is 'LOL'. In D&D you pick your class at the start of the game, and your skills are allocated according to your class as you progress through the game. In Skyrim (and TES in general), you pick your skills, and your 'class' (such as it is) forms over time. Your identity as a player is more dynamic. You are a blank slate, and what you choose to specialise in is determined throughout the game. D&D puts the cart before the horse, whereas TES puts the horse before the cart. How is this a problem, exactly?

And you can't become a master of everything in Skyrim during normal play. Maybe if you played the game for 10,000 hours grinding skills, but apparently the people whinging about the leveling system would never play the game long enough to do this. If you play the game normally, you might be able to get to 100 in two or three chosen skills, if lucky.

I disagree with pretty much all of this.

First, re: fast travel, we were just discussing this on the Morrowind vs Skyrim thread but a well designed "in-world" travel system can actually be less tedious than a "fast travel anywhere" system. For instance in Morrowind, all of the travel options available mean that long trips are pretty rare once you figure out how to get around, but you still have to do a little bit of exploration to reach many destinations. Contrast that with Skyrim, where in the beginning you have no choice but to run everywhere (boring) and by the end you are just warping everywhere (also boring). And that's not to mention how in-world travel systems are much more immersive than simply clicking a button on a map screen.

As far as the character system goes, having your class evolve organically sounds good in theory but I've found it doesn't work out so neatly when I actually play Skyrim. The problem with the TES "learn by doing" system is it favors a standard character type. The game makes it easy to play a generic adventurer who has good weapon skills and stealth supported by some magic, and really difficult to play anything else. Want to roll a pure wizard or a fighter or something cool of your own invention? Then you're going to have to grind, either by doing banal shit over and over and over or farming gold to pay trainers. It just doesn't work very well as a system for a "roleplaying game" where being able to play a variety of PC builds is supposed to be a major feature.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Because RPG fans love this shit; that is why it is there in the first place!

Those aren't RPG fans, those are action adventure fans that think liking the fantasy genre makes them RPG fans.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And you don't see any problem with your character being a blank slate? No problem with not having any sort of real choice on what you are when you start the game beyond the purely cosmetic "Am I a furry or a giant lizard"? Much . Too much. If Skyrim would actually place an emphasis on careful leveling after character creation I'd be more inclined to give it a pass but the game is pretty easy and many of the skills are utterly useless (need anything beyond a functioning pair of eyes in order to pick locks? No? There you are then).

Well, unless you're playing an adventure/module where you start at a high level, characters won't feel terribly different in D&D right from the beginning either. You'll build on your class' strengths as you play the game. A level 1 "warrior" is as much of a blank slate as a level 1 classless character that decided to pick up a sword. You're right on the second point, though. It's a waste of the huge open world to let you level up so quickly.

 

[bloodlover]

the virtues of fast travel.

What the fuck?!?!?!?!

The only reason fast travel is worth a damn in Skyrimjob is because, unlike Morrowind, NPC's don't have a wall of text to explain to you where the location is. "A cave to the west" isn't exactly a detailed description thus leaving you with the (optional) quest marker and the ability to gtfo fast out of there after you clear the place. I mean, there's even a shortcut that takes you from the end of the dungeon to the start of the dungeon in every single location. After a while you just repeat the same thing over and over again: "Discover new location -> Go in -> Kill everything in sight -> press the convenient lever to open the shortcut that takes you at the start of the dungeon -> exit dungeon -> teleport back to town." Morrowind and Gothic games always had a nifty cave or path hidden or some inaccessible area that made you come back later. Fast travelling from one point to another is making you miss on a lot of stuff. And I don't understand your complaint, maybe I played Gothic 1 too long ago, but I don't remeber ever feeling that the game is slow or makes me walk too much.

 

[dryan]

Remove the words "complaining" and "about" from the title, and it becomes perfect.

 

[Lilura]

A level 1 "warrior" is as much of a blank slate as a level 1 classless character that decided to pick up a sword.

Completely wrong, a level 1 warrior in D&D has potentially a few feats and skills selectable from massive lists. And even shitty AD&D "builds" have the proficiency system. Stick to Skyrim, child.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yeah, maybe even three feats if it's a human. Huge difference.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The blank slate will pick up equivalent skills in a few levels...are we really having this conversation? It's so besides the point I was making I'm tempted to just call you an aspie and move on.