Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

[Hobo Elf]

Meh. Coming from the guy who's game only exists because of handouts from the community. Had he let his precious Capitalism run its nature his dream game would've been crushed to dust in an instant within the executive boardroom of investors.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

ban Bruticis from the My Dick thread

 

[Nikolaj]

A libertarian who's also a thread shitter? How original.

 

[dieu]

Spoiler

So he doesn't know how modding works. Modders are going to keep their content/knowledge/help to themselves for fear of others making $$$ off their work. This is going drastically drop the quality of mods overall. That is already a reality, many from the Nexus have hidden their files and the workshop is already filled with shit (money grubbers/protest mods).

Not to mention the fucking irony of saying "competition is good" to defend an unpopular change to Valve's business model.

 

[DraQ]

Can someone remind me whether Bruticis should feel entitled to posting in this thread or not?
I honestly can't remember.
:prospernaut:

In a world of small modding teams, having someone else do generic scripting library to plug into and someone else produce the assets is invaluable - every modder or small team having to reinvent the wheel over and over will leave very little resources left to actually produce anything worthwhile.

But yes, modders don't have the proper resources to always make their own shit - so they borrow it from others. That's kinda my point, no? That if you give modders lots'o'dosh.

If you give modders lots'o'dosh they still won't magically develop more talent, ability to work 48h/d or inclination to lead and manage the risks of leading large professional teams.
Modding, same as open source development, is built on interdependence and cooperation. If you want to take those away, why not also dependence on existing engines and toolsets? The stuff you want already exists. It's called independent game development.
There might be some benefit to blurring the lines between those, but not at the cost of erasing foundations of modding scene.
Modding scene can do many things indies cannot, for example deliver disproportionally high quality stuff for the size of the teams involved AND for the size of the market. This follows directly from the specifics of modding scene - cooperation allows actual teams responsible for the content overlap and be much larger than individual modding teams themselves, while the scene can't really support numerous competing feature and content intensive mods such as TR so trying to go full capitalism here is a pipedream that will end badly.

"Not allowing" is a restriction. Who are you to say whether someone can sell mods or not? If the option is there, it's theirs to take.

Putting a 'tard' back in libertard again?

Any form of order is built of restrictions. Inability to point your privately owned gun at someone's face and pull a trigger is a restriction too.

One of the reasons I talked about the sales of horse cock for $10k is because it would reveal an uncomfortable truth - that some mods have monetary value.

Actually I have absolutely no problems with people selling horsecocks or shadowscale armor that wouldn't fit on a Shadowscale.

What I do have problem with is that it suddenly became possible to take large portions of community hostage because yesterday's standardization turned overnight into today's monopoly.

Or is taking hostages legit because someone would be willing to pay for them?

Nobody is 'making' anybody pay for anything.

If I suddenly abolished laws prohibiting shooting people in the face I wouldn't be making anyone do anything either.

Another extreme example that makes no sense. We are discussing mods and games here, not a livelihood intrinsic to how many dollars are in your pocket.

Good. So instead of RL execution an e-emasculation should do just fine.

 

[Drowed]

Bruticis's was funny at first. Now it's just sad; and post farming.

 

[Hegel]

I digress, the irony is that a guy who got his shovelware financed by a bunch of guys on the Internet is praising the free market while being, as an indie developer, the lowest man on the Totem Pole. In a free market, publishers would have shot him down adducing a lack of ROI as a general concern. This whole situation calls for a Dantesque contrapasso and I did even back this dumbfuck's game (thank you Codex for being a shill for any shit RPG out there).

 

[Bruticis]

Not to mention the fucking irony of saying "competition is good" to defend an unpopular change to Valve's business model.

Unpopular to who? The screams and rants of the vocal minority? 75 million steam subs, 99% don't give a fuck.

 

[Stokowski]

I wonder what's so incredibly confusing about the concept of for profit organizations.

Their increasing practical inability to deliver fit-for-purpose goods and services?

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Spoiler

So he doesn't know how modding works. Modders are going to keep their content/knowledge/help to themselves for fear of others making $$$ off their work. This is going drastically drop the quality of mods overall. That is already a reality, many from the Nexus have hidden their files and the workshop is already filled with shit (money grubbers/protest mods).

Creativity and capitalism have an iffy relationship.

Google "The Candle Problem".

 

[Dexter]

8chan listens to GabeN's advice, practices revenge upon Valve: http://imgur.com/a/K14fJ

 

[sser]

In a world of small modding teams, having someone else do generic scripting library to plug into and someone else produce the assets is invaluable - every modder or small team having to reinvent the wheel over and over will leave very little resources left to actually produce anything worthwhile.

But yes, modders don't have the proper resources to always make their own shit - so they borrow it from others. That's kinda my point, no? That if you give modders lots'o'dosh.

If you give modders lots'o'dosh they still won't magically develop more talent, ability to work 48h/d or inclination to lead and manage the risks of leading large professional teams.
Modding, same as open source development, is built on interdependence and cooperation. If you want to take those away, why not also dependence on existing engines and toolsets? The stuff you want already exists. It's called independent game development.

There might be some benefit to blurring the lines between those, but not at the cost of erasing foundations of modding scene.
Modding scene can do many things indies cannot, for example deliver disproportionally high quality stuff for the size of the teams involved AND for the size of the market. This follows directly from the specifics of modding scene - cooperation allows actual teams responsible for the content overlap and be much larger than individual modding teams themselves, while the scene can't really support numerous competing feature and content intensive mods such as TR so trying to go full capitalism here is a pipedream that will end badly.

Modding is built on nothing more than an individual wishing to change a game. Saying anything more than that is rose-colored nonsense.

A quick glance at the Skyrim mod store shows a number of mods where there are multiple authors. There is your interdependence and cooperation. Also, independent game development and modding are not one and the same. Are there indie game devs creating SkyUI and Wet'n'Cold for Skyrim? No? Then why would you even write that sentence?

Similarly, providing modders with 'dosh' has a track record. Neil Manke's best shit always came from contracted work from sponsors, not when he was trying to financially support himself and mod at the same time. The Europa Barboarorum mod is sinking as we speak because they can't get people interested in helping out for free. There are a few (lucky, I'd say) modders on Patreon which are producing great stuff which I guarantee you would come out much, much slower if they didn't have that financial support. Injecting cash into any kind of creative process is not a pipe dream, dude, it has an eight thousand-year track record of success. Sure, sometimes the carrot on the stick leads nowhere, and sometimes a blind man can find the way, but more often than not incentivized supply finds its own rewards.

"Not allowing" is a restriction. Who are you to say whether someone can sell mods or not? If the option is there, it's theirs to take.

Putting a 'tard' back in libertard again?

Any form of order is built of restrictions. Inability to point your privately owned gun at someone's face and pull a trigger is a restriction too.

I would say comparing a money-exchanging mechanic to one's right to point a gun where he or she pleases is pretty 'tarded', actually.

Once again, if someone sells $10k worth of mods, are you going to sit there and reject the objective truth that there was monetary value to that mod? Because that's what you are doing.

One of the reasons I talked about the sales of horse cock for $10k is because it would reveal an uncomfortable truth - that some mods have monetary value.

Actually I have absolutely no problems with people selling horsecocks or shadowscale armor that wouldn't fit on a Shadowscale.

What I do have problem with is that it suddenly became possible to take large portions of community hostage because yesterday's standardization turned overnight into today's monopoly.

Or is taking hostages legit because someone would be willing to pay for them?

The mechanics of the system are not sound, I agree.

Nobody is 'making' anybody pay for anything.

If I suddenly abolished laws prohibiting shooting people in the face I wouldn't be making anyone do anything either.

Non-sequitur. See above.

Another extreme example that makes no sense. We are discussing mods and games here, not a livelihood intrinsic to how many dollars are in your pocket.

Good. So instead of RL execution an e-emasculation should do just fine.

Non-sequitur. See above.

 

[Drowed]

Well, that's dedication for ya.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Didn't Brut have a similar meltdown before being banned last time? I think he's overstayed his welcome again.

 

[Bruticis]

What the hell is kurwa?
*INSERT ENTITLED IMAGE HERE*

 

[Naraya]

Entitlement overload at PCG: http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

 

[Rezz]

Entitlement overload at PCG: http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

Archive of link: https://archive.is/eSGc6#selection-2813.0-2813.11

Straight from the comments

 

[Immortal]

Entitlement overload at PCG: http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

I love how the article ends up defending people complaining and talking about how shitty this implementation is.

Oh man, that's hilarious. It's a middle finger made up of ASCII characters. BAD ASS!!!!

K so be honest, what's your name on Nexus and which mod did you make that isn't getting approved on Steam. You are being way too whiny - I am starting to get suspicious.

 

[Bruticis]

Oh man, that's hilarious. It's a middle finger made up of ASCII characters. BAD ASS!!!!

 

[mastroego]

sser
you make valid and rational points, but I believe you're missing some of the fundamental issues many users are having with this whole "recent development".
Modding is not new nor terribly recent but for a few games with the "right" conditions it skyrocketed to unprecedented levels.
Yet a GREAT part of its charm was the very collaborative effort behind it, the acknowledgement than any mod must at least have been made out of passion or it wouldn't have been made in the first place, the good feeling that even as a simple feedback_giving user you were part of an ever improving and evolving community. One of the few recognizably good things (for what was worth) of this whole crazy interconnected age.

Now a few modders suddenly think/hope/imagine they can sell "their" [how much can really be "theirs" after all the iterations in recurring ideas, modding tools, brainstorming and all, remains of course open to debate] mods to large audiences as if the above ingredients hadn't been a factor in shaping that same audience's desires up until now.
Would I have even spent time "mod-hunting" and had fun in the very process in the absence of the aforementioned context?
I honestly don't think so, and it would have been about the mood of the thing as much as it would have been (necessarily) about the money.

In a few words I think Seller-Modders are doing the same mistake I think Beth is doing, that is, overestimating the attracting power of their "products" when considered as isolated objects, instead of a part of the strangely harmonized system that had been in place up until now.

 

[Alienman]

Poor modders. Have to eat ramen noodles under some bridge just so we can get cs maps :D
Are modders going to become the new Patreon victims?

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Meh. Coming from the guy who's game only exists because of handouts from the community. Had he let his precious Capitalism run its nature his dream game would've been crushed to dust in an instant within the executive boardroom of investors.

You are sarcastic ,right?The guy did the most free market move you can imagine,got out and sold his product directly to the costumer.The leftards in this thread

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Didn't Brut have a similar meltdown before being banned last time? I think he's overstayed his welcome again.

 

[sser]

sser
you make valid and rational points, but I believe you're missing some of the fundamental issues many users are having with this whole "recent development".
Modding is not new nor terribly recent but for a few games with the "right" conditions it skyrocketed to unprecedented levels.
Yet a GREAT part of its charm was the very collaborative effort behind it, the acknowledgement than any mod must at least have been made out of passion or it wouldn't have been made in the first place, the good feeling that even as a simple feedback_giving user you were part of an ever improving and evolving community. One of the few recognizably good things (for what was worth) of this whole crazy interconnected age.

Now a few modders suddenly think/hope/imagine they can sell "their" [how much can really be "theirs" after all the iterations in recurring ideas, modding tools, brainstorming and all, remains of course open to debate] mods to large audiences as if the above ingredients hadn't been a factor in shaping that same audience's desires up until now.
Would I have even spent time "mod-hunting" and had fun in the very process in the absence of the aforementioned context?
I honestly don't think so, and it would have been about the mood of the thing as much as it would have been (necessarily) about the money.

In a few words I think Seller-Modders are doing the same mistake I think Beth is doing, that is, overestimating the attracting power of their "products" when considered as isolated objects, instead of a part of the strangely harmonized system that had been in place up until now.

&

Poor modders. Have to eat ramen noodles under some bridge just so we can get cs maps :D
Are modders going to become the new Patreon victims?

I'd actually like to see modders turn to Patreon or what would essentially be a Patreon-copy on Steam itself.

 

[Alienman]

I'm fine with Patreon or donation, I was just making a remark about the victim-complex and if you have followed the SJW thread you will understand