Old-skool CRpg recommendation for newbies?

[duerer]

Hello Fellow RPG Fans,

I'm a CRPG newbie and I am looking for a great game to kill some quality time with.

Since I am old, grumpy and jaded, I am not interested in Oblivion, NWN and any game which uses 3D graphics.
Old-skool games would be great, because I may run these in a window, aside my daily job. Fun diversion for the grinding days, I'd say, heh-heh...

So, can you recommend me a great old-skool Rpg?
I am thinking on the following games:
- Magic candle (heard that MC 1 is the best of the series)
- Excelsior Phase 1-2 (which one is better?)
- Ultima V or IV (which one is better? Or go for Lazarus - even if it is in *gasp* 3D?)

My preference on Rpgs are the following (in order of priority):
- Fun and original gameworld (Ultimas definitely have an edge here)
- ... with an interesting, *evolving* story (not sure if the Ultimas do have this one. Magic Candle perhaps?)
- Sense of achievement (that is, fun and meaningful leveling!)
- Interactivity / NPC act-react (Does any old-skool Rpg has this similar to U7?)
- Combat / Magic system (heard that Ultimas suck here)
- No insane micro-management (hmmm, heard that MC is extremely micro-management oriented)

What I've played (ahem) so far (and my comments on these):
- Arcanum (Great ambience. Liked it and finished, but had to cheat because of imbalancing issues)
- Baldur's gate (Liked it at first, found extremely boring later on. Never finished.)
- Morrowind (great for the first 10 minutes, gave up after 2 hours)
- Gothic 1 (found too hard at the beginning and gave up)
- Avernum 4 (bored to death hafway and gave up)
- Geneforge 1 (really liked the diplomatic possibilities. Unbalanced gameplay seriously ruined the fun, adn gave up - see: trap rooms)
- U7-Serpent Isle (Still playing using Exult. Cool gameworld/story, very bad combat)

Also, I am not a Tolkien fanatic. If you recommend a sci-fi game, I would be more than happy.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Klaz]

Fallout (Specially the first...)

 

[Ander Vinz]

I fear he will give up.

 

[obediah]

I fear he will give up.

Heh. Perseverance may be an admirable trait when it comes to many things, but finishing RPGs you aren't enjoying isn't one of them.

From his descriptions, Gothic is the only one I'd recommend going back and trying - because after getting used to the controls and your character combat becomes much more reasonable.

 

[Kraszu]

Fallout would be easiest to get hooked on, it is similar to Arcanum in gameplay.

I would recommend trying gothic once more I never find controls to be hard through.

 

[callehe]

fallout definately, that would fit you perfectly. try planescape: torment too.

 

[Ander Vinz]

I fear he will give up.

Heh. Perseverance may be an admirable trait when it comes to many things, but finishing RPGs you aren't enjoying isn't one of them.

Yep. My comment was stupid.
He should have asked: Guys, I liked Arcanum, can you advice me something similar?
I should have answered: Try Fallout and Planescape:Torment.

 

[Ander Vinz]

Hey, callehe, that pen spinning thing looks funny enough to entertain yourself on boring lections. Will I be able to perform it with rubberized pen or it has to be smooth?

 

[Goliath]

Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday. Use DOSBox. Explanation below.

My preference on Rpgs are the following (in order of priority):
- Fun and original gameworld (Ultimas definitely have an edge here)

The world of Buck Rogers is pretty original. It is "soft" sci-fi. Feels a little bit like Star Trek.

- ... with an interesting, *evolving* story (not sure if the Ultimas do have this one. Magic Candle perhaps?)

I am not sure what you mean with "evolving". If you mean "the plot depends on my actions", then no. If you mean "I want the story to unfold like a drama", then yes. IIRC you do not know anything about the ultimate goal of the game at the beginning, and slowly discover what is going on while completing your missions. You play a team of agents.

- Sense of achievement (that is, fun and meaningful leveling!)

CTD is the best RPG I have ever played as far as this is concerned. There are no shitty, unimportant fed ex quests which are so common nowadays. All missions are very dramatic. Best mission design ever IMHO.

- Interactivity / NPC act-react (Does any old-skool Rpg has this similar to U7?)

Almost no "interactivity" in CTD unfortunately.

- Combat / Magic system (heard that Ultimas suck here)

CTD uses the GoldBox system. I love it. It is a tactical, turn-based system. There is no magic, but you have modern weapons who have spell like effects e.g. instead of a fireball you use a plasma thrower, instead of a blinding spell you use flash grenades etc.

- No insane micro-management (hmmm, heard that MC is extremely micro-management oriented)

I am not sure what you mean with "micro-management".

 

[sqeecoo]

Betrayal at Krondor is nice and very old-school. A bitch to set-up though. Also try fallout 1 or albion.

 

[Zomg]

I second the Buck Rogers recommendation, the first one in any case. The second one as I recall was terrible. I hadn't played either one of them before last year or so, so that's not pure nostalgia talking, although I am very familiar with Gold Box stuff.

You could try Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, a '92ish post-Gold Box SSI game. It feels a hell of a lot like the original Baldur's Gate with most fat trimmed out. The late middle of the game is sleepwalk easy, unfortunately, but by the final battle it's balanced again. The writing is brutally mediocre, though.

Betrayal at Krondor was mentioned, but it's a hard game to finish. It really drags on. The start is great, though.

Darklands is buggy and has a lot of decrepit interface micromanagement problems. You also need the hint book to know how the combat system works. Again, very hard to finish. The setting is many sigmas to the right of the median.

The first two Quest for Glory games are fun adventure/linear RPG hybrids. The second game is great, but has never been converted into a non-parser version, so play them both in the original EGA + text parser versions.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I liked Ultima V back in the day, but I quit Ultima VI pretty quickly for some reason I can't remember. Like others said, Fallout. Play 1 before 2 or else you're dead to us. If you're even considering something as old as Ultima V, Wasteland was pretty cool, too. It's post-apocalyptic with a little sci-fi.

 

[Goliath]

I second the Buck Rogers recommendation, the first one in any case. The second one as I recall was terrible. I hadn't played either one of them before last year or so, so that's not pure nostalgia talking, although I am very familiar with Gold Box stuff.

The second part (Matrix Cubed) is not terrible IMO. There are some badly designed missions in it, though. The beginning is boring / annoying. However, IIRC it gets quite good once you arrive on Earth. However, CTD is the game you should try first for sure. Especially because you will be able to import your CTD characters into Matrix Cubed.

You could try Dark Sun: Shattered Lands, a '92ish post-Gold Box SSI game. It feels a hell of a lot like the original Baldur's Gate with most fat trimmed out. The late middle of the game is sleepwalk easy, unfortunately, but by the final battle it's balanced again. The writing is brutally mediocre, though.

Shattered Lands is what I would call a "solid RPG". It is unlikely that you will remember much, but it is fun while it lasts.

Betrayal at Krondor was mentioned, but it's a hard game to finish. It really drags on. The start is great, though.

"Drags on", very good description. I stopped playing at chapter 9 or something like that. I mean the part where you have just escaped from a fortress and have to make your way home through a frozen land full of enemies. However, the writing in BaK is excellent and the game is quite immersive, too. One of jewels of the genre IMO.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

- Fun and original gameworld (Ultimas definitely have an edge here)

Fallout and Planescape: Torment should be just what the doctor ordered.

- ... with an interesting, *evolving* story (not sure if the Ultimas do have this one. Magic Candle perhaps?)

Torment and perhaps Betrayal at Krondor?

- Sense of achievement (that is, fun and meaningful leveling!)

Wasteland, Fallout, Torment, or perhaps Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn could do that.

- Interactivity / NPC act-react (Does any old-skool Rpg has this similar to U7?)

Torment and Shadows of Amn have this in excess. Fallout too...though not as much with your companions as the world around you. Your companions are basically meat-shields.

- Combat / Magic system (heard that Ultimas suck here)

For pure combat, try Temple of Elemental Evil. It's good. For nifty enough magic, try Shadows of Amn.

- No insane micro-management (hmmm, heard that MC is extremely micro-management oriented)

Fallout and Torment seem to fit the bill. Shadows of Amn is a little bit on the micro-side, but can be handled. Temple of Elemental Evil takes a lot of "slow" micromanagement (it's turn based) but is totally worth it. It's not like a real time strategy game or anything.

- Arcanum (Great ambience. Liked it and finished, but had to cheat because of imbalancing issues)

You're going to love Fallout and Torment.

- Baldur's gate (Liked it at first, found extremely boring later on. Never finished.)

You might want to try the second one. Shadows of Amn pretty much improved on the first one in every way and added in some nifty magic and character interaction

- Morrowind (great for the first 10 minutes, gave up after 2 hours)

So Daggerfall is pretty much out of the question I assume....

- Gothic 1 (found too hard at the beginning and gave up)

Might want to avoid Wizardry 4 then...

- U7-Serpent Isle (Still playing using Exult. Cool gameworld/story, very bad combat)

Ultima Underworld perhaps? Four, five, and six weren't all too bad either, though after playing seven they might not be too great. Pagan.....well....it's not very Ultima-like. And there is no Ultima Nine....

Also, I am not a Tolkien fanatic. If you recommend a sci-fi game, I would be more than happy.

You are going to love Fallout and Torment.

You might also want to try the Wizardry series, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines (even though it is 3d and in first person....it has the old-school design), Darklands (it's damn hard though and I'm not among it's fans....it's a love it or hate it kind of game but always worth trying), and maybe even Daggerfall.

 

[Jasede]

I wanted to post here but someone already mentioned Buck Rogers. Damn you, copx, one day I will be faster! Nu pagadi!

 

[mvBarracuda]

I wanted to post here but someone already mentioned Buck Rogers. Damn you, copx, one day I will be faster! Nu pagadi!

I guess you missed the point Jasede.

This thread is about RPG recommondations, not about your favourite band *.

* scnr

 

[spacemoose]

Nu pagadi!

what, where did you hear that? I just had a flashback to my childhood

 

[JarlFrank]

Fllout and Planescape Torment are the logical choices.
Then, play Ultima VII if you haven't already.
If you want some old-skool dungeon romping fun, the Wizardries are a great challenge [If you want to despair, play IV] and the Might and Magics are fun. Also, try some roguelikes, preferably ADOM. It's got ASCII graphics and is quite complicated to control, but you'll like the windowed mode and the complexity and dungeon romping fun that it gives.

 

[The_Nameless_Prick]

They kizzy sippin' wit mah account like a bunch of nerdy, insecure, posers boi.

 

[NiM82]

Fallout 1, then 2 (if you like it). Very similar to Arcanum but a bit more polished/balanced, in my opinion (and a lot smaller). Be sure to get the fan patches from NMA if you decide to go that route. To run it in a window (and many other old games) you will need to use a tool called D3DWindower (google for it).

Not really a true CRPG imo, but as you liked parts of BG, i'd have to recommend you play BG2 (it's vastly superior, nowhere near as boring). I got bored halfway into BG, a friend told me to try BG2 and I got hooked right away - completed it before I finished BG1. PST is also a must at some point

 

[The_Nameless_Prick]

Don't waste your time on computer games, find something better to do with your time. Get a life away from the internet, it's the only way.

 

[Elwro]

I second the recommendation for Dark Sun: The Shattered Lands.

Also, if you haven't tried them yet, be sure to check some roguelikes. My favourite is ADOM, but I also like Warp Rogue and some pagans here like Nethack. (Crawl is OK too!) I'm not saying such games fit your requirements, but anyone who wants to play something oldschool needs to check what roguelikes are.

And an important thing: get back to the Gothic series. Try again, persevere and you'll see they're wonderful games :D

 

[duerer]

Wow!

Thanks for all the great tips! To summarize the recommendations, this is the laundry list of the must-check games:

- Fallout 1 (similarity with Arcanum)
- Buck Rogers: CtD (Something Completely Different)
- Gothic 1 (again!)
- Baldur's Gate 2 (second time's the charm?)

I have a confession, Father. I started playing Fallout waaaaaay back then, but for some reason, I forgot that game (dunno why). Now, point taken - it was a mistake, and I must check it out again!

As for Buck Rogers, I just checked over a bunch of abandonware sites for reviews/screenshots (and *ahem*... copy protection manuals... this is a GoldBox game afterall...). Seems to be an interesting one, so I'll go for it!

 

[duerer]

One thing, though: I will try to summarize my grumpiness against current-gen Rpgs, so you may have a better understanding why I am looking for old-skool stuff:


1. Why do I give up on Rpgs so easily?
Because a good Rpg takes a lot of free time to finish. Unfortunately this is a commodity I do not have that much.


2. Why old-skool Rpgs instead of great contemporary ones (i.e. Fallout, BG)?
Because old games are very bad-looking, archaic and unpolished. Since these are *imperfect*, I won't complain for the omission of the obligatory interface features such as:
- Quest log,
- Conversation journal,
- Automap with annotation,
- Quick save,
- Fast travel,
- etc...
Now, what I *do want* is great gameplay instead.
All the luxury features can be substituted with Notepad, anyway (A quick example: I play U7-SI in Exult, and type in *every* conversation and info into a Notepad file. Yes, I know it will take a while to finish the game, but the conversations are sooo good...)

3. Flashy gfx is evil
Frankly, top-down tiled graphics is better IMHO, because I can oversee the situation more easily - no more pixel hunting, thank you. Also, I like the idea to imagine the scenario in my head (text adventures, anyone?).



... And basically, that's it.
I admit, it is silly, ridiculous, and just plain stupid, but hey - I am proud for not being a Vulcan, afterall.


Again, thanks for all the great tips!

 

[JarlFrank]

Don't waste your time on computer games, find something better to do with your time. Get a life away from the internet, it's the only way.

O rly?
Like joining the Nazi party?