VAMPIRE SUPERHEROES the Masquerade 4th Edition

[Akasen]

So at Gencon, Onyx Path Publishing apparently announced an upcoming 4th edition to Vampire the Masquerade.

Hooray?

And here's a reddit post from the user VonAether

I don't know what to think of this so far. I think this is a dumb idea all things considered. What do you all think?

 

[Xathrodox86]

Why? It's the oWoD, one of the best systems of all time with complexity and material background, to which few others can compare. If they'll keep the rules simple and concentrate on the story side of this game, then it will work. I'm hyped as fuck.

 

[mondblut]

I don't know what to think of this so far. I think this is a dumb idea all things considered. What do you all think?

Dumb idea was killing off the classic WoD and going on with the nWOD shit. Took them 10 years to realize nobody wants VTR and the entire metaplot and background were WOD's primary selling points. Well, better late than never. I am eager to see the past decade adapted to the VtM metaplot. Baba Yaga attempted to seize the control of Ukraine but was thwarted by an alliance of Tremere and the Technocracy! The Sabbat-driven rabble kicking the assamites out of arabic states! Tzimisce pretending to be Malkavians ruin the career of a scientist who has discovered the alien vicissitude virus frozen on the surface of a comet! Gonna be fun.

 

[Akasen]

Okay, so killing off the classic WoD was stupendously dumb. Especially since the notion, as I understand, was that the meta-plot made it difficult to entice new players or some crap. So they made the nWoD which was supposed to have no meta-plot and all that jazz.

Blah blah blah, this was a dumb move. Blah blah blah, V20 is released and basically is VtM but without the meta-plot and whatever, VTM is back and it's awesome and everything is PoD now!

So okay, a new edition that both revamps the rules like any new addition AND adds more metaplot and gives a bit more insight to a modern world of vampires? I'm game for such writing. Heck, I'll probably buy it anyways. I just still feel iffy though about adding more metaplot and possibly changing the system further. I haven't been with Vampire in it's lifetime, so I don't know all the intricate rules changes that have happened in time. But I don't think the system really calls for some big rules change anyways, right?

I mean, what are they gonna do? Take some minor cues from their nWoD 2nd Edition and apply some of that to cWoD 4th Edition?

 

[Excidium II]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-vampire-the-masquerade-4ed-announced.101826/

Nigger

 

[Excidium II]

More metaplot trash for the playerbase to sperg about, good for them who love it.

So okay, a new edition that both revamps the rules like any new addition AND adds more metaplot and gives a bit more insight to a modern world of vampires? I'm game for such writing.

Idea of bringing VtM to 21st century is some lame shit, the spirit of the 90s is intrisic to the setting.

Dumb idea was killing off the classic WoD and going on with the nWOD shit.

The only dumb thing is that they didn't kill it earlier, preferably before revised editions of the main games.

 

[Copper]

I think Wizards of the Coast look at the flaming wreck of White Wolf and say 'Well, all things considered, the grogs aren't that bad'.

 

[Akasen]

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-vampire-the-masquerade-4ed-announced.101826/

Nigger

Fuck off man, I posted ten hours and fifty minutes before Andhaira's ass. Go give him a blow job

More metaplot trash for the playerbase to sperg about, good for them who love it.


Idea of bringing VtM to 21st century is some lame shit, the spirit of the 90s is intrisic to the setting.


The only dumb thing is that they didn't kill it earlier, preferably before revised editions of the main games.

You know what? Fuck you. Get the lube ready and see Todd Howard behind an alley way.

 

[Excidium II]

Yeah buy the exact same books for the 4th time good goy

 

[Akasen]

Yeah buy the exact same books for the 4th time good goy

Fuck you, I'm watching you and Andhaira bitch over each other on the other thread and I can't heavily agree with either of you. Also fuck my thread.

Also I'm keeping my 20th Anniversary Edition and leaving, REMEMBER IT'S THE GREATEST FUCKING THING EVER

 

[Excidium II]

Also I'm keeping my 20th Anniversary Edition and leaving, REMEMBER IT'S THE GREATEST FUCKING THING EVER

Strongly Agree.

4th edition has no reason to exist besides business, of course they need to "move the game forward" so they can sell clan books, sect books, city books, novels and what not with updated rules and metaplot events, and the cretin WoD playerbase will gobble it all because those people like to discuss canon more than actually play the game

 

[Akasen]

Strongly Agree.

4th edition has no reason to exist besides business, of course they need to "move the game forward" so they can sell clan books, sect books, city books, novels and what not with updated rules and metaplot events, and the cretin WoD playerbase will gobble it all because those people like to discuss canon more than actually play the game

I've listed these four thinngs to a friend of mine as to how me and a friend may react to the new edition when we beta test it

A) We hate the rules and the meta
B) We hate the rules, but the meta is okay
C) We Love the rules, but the meta is okay
D) We love the rules, but hate the meta
Realistically, it sort of comes down to the rules being okay.

The rules being okay in essence being something like it's more fun or intuitive or some crap. But I love these rules as it stands due to simplicity. But whatever.

 

[mondblut]

those people like to discuss canon more than actually play the game

You say it like it's something bad.

Playing games is for dumb peons. The learned ones prefer to study them.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Baba Yaga attempted to seize the control of Ukraine but was thwarted by an alliance of Tremere and the Technocracy!

Just to point this out, but Baba Yaga met Final Death by a Nictuku in 2000 in the metaplot. A group of random PCs got to watch (this is probably the biggest problem with the metaplot, players get to show up and watch).

 

[mondblut]

Just to point this out, but Baba Yaga met Final Death by a Nictuku in 2000 in the metaplot. A group of random PCs got to watch (this is probably the biggest problem with the metaplot, players get to show up and watch).

So that's why Yeltsin has resigned.

Who needs those silly PCs anyway. All the cool stuff (aka canon) happens without their involvement anyway, they only fuck the things up, then cry in butthurt that the official canon went the different way.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Just to point this out, but Baba Yaga met Final Death by a Nictuku in 2000 in the metaplot. A group of random PCs got to watch (this is probably the biggest problem with the metaplot, players get to show up and watch).

If the GM will present this in a right way, the "watching" part can be done really well. I've always preffered that my PC's would be bystanders who watched, rather than fough the cosmic evil...

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I've always preffered that my PC's would be bystanders

I would anti-brofist you so hard if I could.

There is absolutely no sin worse for a GM than to even entertain this sort of thinking.

 

[Copper]

It CAN be done 'well' - the West End Games Star Wars RPG had great advice for how to integrate your characters into stuff like the Battle of Hoth, etc, but even there they mostly advised you to chill on that. The important thing is that the PCs (a) aren't in a situation where they're told 'These two superheroes are going to fight and you need to press a bunch of buttons' and (b) actually have agency in the scene, and have reasons not to join in the main event.

In general, meta-plot fucks your IP up, and you have to reboot, and everyone is butthurt - but people who have low imagination seem to love it.

 

[Xathrodox86]

I would anti-brofist you so hard if I could.

There is absolutely no sin worse for a GM than to even entertain this sort of thinking.

... as opposed to super human badassess, who could kill anyone with a fart. That's not RPG, that's a personal masturbation fantasy of any player out there. That's why I dislike D&D so much. The idea of a PC kicking a dragon to death is beyond retarded.

Oh and I would very much like to have you in my gaming group.

 

[Excidium II]

In general, meta-plot fucks your IP up, and you have to reboot, and everyone is butthurt - but people who have low imagination seem to love it.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I've sometimes toyed with the idea of how a metaplot-spanning series of chronicles of Vampire (starting at the Dark Ages, covers historically important events up until Gehenna in six or less campaigns, with last campaign being a kind of roundup of everyone's favourite PCs from prior campaigns), and conclusion was that you'd have to rewrite the whole thing for it to provide a satisfying whole which has a point and possesses a strong sense of cohesion and direction. Metaplot only really works as an idea mine for your starting point, everything after YOUR starting point you should just do your own way, especially in order to shut up zealous fanboys.

... as opposed to super human badassess, who could kill anyone with a fart. That's not RPG, that's a personal masturbation fantasy of any player out there. That's why I dislike D&D so much. The idea of a PC kicking a dragon to death is beyond retarded.

There's a huge amount of degrees between what you describe and what you think I meant. Any GM worth his salt understands that the absolute basic rule that should never be went against is that no matter what, the PCs are the protagonists of the narrative of the game, and thus all events are only relevant via their agency and their actions. DnD is a game where players play a pack of Dynasty Warriors who loot and pillage everything they see (and do note, I personally think dragons should have no hit points period, since there's nothing more boring than PnP combat played straight, for dice rolls are anathema to skill and rock-em-sock-em percentile combat is anathema to engagement; a dragon fight should be in itself a puzzle, a rollercoaster, and a mini-dungeon all rolled into one, not chopping at its heels until it bleeds to death), in Call of Cthulhu the players play a group of disparate people in strange circumstances. In both, the style of story chosen needs to revolve around the players first and foremost, with agency paramount in the genre of the narrative. In case of DnD, that involves kicking ass and taking names. In case of CoC, that involves in solving the mystery and escaping relatively *physically* intact whether or not direct encounter with supernatural beings occurs. In case of White Wolf metaplot, it involves kicking Dev Pet NPCs in the nuts and letting the PCs hog the spotlight that's rightfully theirs.

 

[Night Goat]

I've always preffered that my PC's would be bystanders who watched, rather than fough the cosmic evil...

No. No no no no no. This is BAD. The greatest strength of tabletop RPGs is that, when done right, they form a collaborative story that everyone has input in. The worst kind of DM by far is the primadonna who just wants to tell his story to a captive audience.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I've recently begun to think that a good start for any campaign is for character creation rules to be thrown in the trash bin and instead everyone sits around together and hammers out what they all think would be a very good lead cast for the story. For one thing, this allows for wildly differentiated characters with qualities that aren't part of gamist optimization, and it'll makes the GM's job of tailoring the story around the PCs a whole lot easier. Even if made with char creation rules the roundtable should be done so a good party dynamic can be made to provide solid ground for roleplaying and storytelling.

I also don't particularly like XP anymore either, it's far too much of a gamist element which doesn't even abstract anything.

 

[Lightsinthesky]

Not surprising. With Wraith20 gone through they're running pretty short on kickstarters that will rake in the big bucks and their last attempt at coming up with a new property ended up causing such a backlash they have to rewrite the whole thing to appeal to anyone besides collectors and power tripping trannies.

 

[lightbane]

As bad as NWoD games can be, at the very least they don't have several "god-npcs" running around which exist to either form part of an extensive metaplot which players don't care and/or cannot interact with, or be absurdly strong adversaries that can vaporize the PCs instantly if they feel like it. Moreover, werewolves were nerfed to hell and back compared with vampires (and practically everyone else), which caused lots of butthurt in the fanbase