Calling all goth-beards: Vampire the Masquerade 4ed Announced

[Andhaira]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheOnyxPath/status/627133072199274496

According to Reddit Q/A session and Gen-Con Q/A's it seems this is a true sequel edition; that is V20 was just a collection of all prereleased Vampire the Masquerade products with cleaned up rules. Furthermore this game will pick up after the official ending of the Masquerade line (which was then rebooted into a new game Vampire the Requiem, similar to the old game but without the metaplot) and after Ghenna already happened, which was supposedly a big deal in Masquerade 1ed, 2ed and 3ed/Revised.

Ghenna was also a big deal in Troika's Bloodlines.

How do I feel about this? I loathed the meta plot of Masquerade, and was underwhelmed by Requiem. I also loathed the WoD game system with it's bucket of dice rolls, no talents/feats and shit like that (advantages/traits work differently) I also hated the general WoD universe with everything from Vampires 7 Werewolves to Mages and Demons and retarded shit like Promethus and the like. And how they implied Exalted was the precursor to this world.

I liked the Disciplines, the Clans, and Hunters/Hunter the Reckoning and it's Requiem reboot.

I also understand the importance of this game in the history of the hobby. So I hope they don't fuck this up and use the advancements in gaming systems to give a proper, fun rules system, and make Vampires powerful, not the bitches of the supernatural world. Antidiluveans were the most powerful creatures in the setting, but they weren't exactly player characters, and they were too powerful. PCs started out as shit 13th generation pussies. Less focus on the meta plot; ideally Vampires in 21st century awaken to find out their kind has mostly been wiped out in a mysterious 20th century event (ghenna). Upto players and GM to go ahead from their and make their own stories.

Powerlevel should be around 7th-8th Generation, with bloodline not being diluted for newer vamps, but it is much harder to make new vamps. Generation goes up only after aging of hundreds of years, and Diableries of a Vampire at least 2 Generations above you. Merge Protean and Animalism into one Discipline, remove the excess crap and keep the quality powers only. Allow multiple power choices at each Discipline level/dot, but also keep the mixed Discipline powers as the idea is cool (and rewards players who dabble in other disciplines). Clan Disciplines should only be usable by Clan Vamps. Make this a hard coded rule, not optional.

So only Gangrel can do Protean. Merge Tzmitzse and Gangrel Clans, and give Gangrel Zulu Form (only power of Tzmitsce worth having) So we can finally play Dracula without having to bend the fucking rules or waiting ages to get the blood potency to be able to get all the powers. Also Merge Ventrue and Brujah. Keep Nosferatu as they are, weird long eared freaks who have to hang out in Sewers to hide their fucked up faces; use The Strain as an inspiration and make Nosferatu more alien, with long stingers/tongues instead of simple fangs. Bring back Disciples of Set and Serpentis, those guys & their lore is cool. Improve Assamite's. Remove Tremere or change their powers; it makes no sense for vampires to be able to conjure fireballs. Use Blood Omens (original) as a guideline for what type of sorcery vamps should be able to do. Nothing to do with fire.

And while this won't happen, just keep Vamps, Werewolves and Hunters in the same world. Fuck the rest, or make their own universe for them. And keep Werewolves weaker than Vamps plz.

Finally, clans should be extremely important and character defining. Loyalty should be to a Clan, not some shitty organization like Sabbat or Carmilla, or the retarded crap we got in Requiem. Sabbat was a cool idea, but give that philosophy to a Clan, so we get a clan of psychos who believe in obliterating humans and using them as blood farms. Disciples of Set can work good for this.

Jaesun Night Goat LeStryfe79

 

[Ludo Lense]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheOnyxPath/status/627133072199274496
I loathed the meta plot of Masquerade

Why did you even bother with the game then? The central theme is that timeless creatures are running out of time.

If anything the should nerf everything across the board. Considering the amount of stupid DBZ powers everybody gets I never did buy how humanity could even stand a chance (incendiary rounds and all) if supernatural stuff started revealing itself.

Sneaking on a single human should be easy but if the mob with pitchforks starts coming for ya you should be afraid.

I always hated that people started playing this game as if it were Underworld. The moment my players started wearing leather dusters and swords I started bringing down the hunters on them because to hell with that.

 

[Excidium II]

Why did you even bother with the game then? The central theme is that timeless creatures are running out of time.

Because the setting is cool. The final judgement approaching should be nothing more than a GM guideline to the tone of the world (Like they handled in the anniversary editions), not an excuse to republish the same books but with fluff revisions.

Metaplot dumbfuckery is part of the reason it's so hard to find people to play WoD games, you either get "that crowd" that is into vampires and stuff or fluff-obsessed mongoloids

And while this won't happen, just keep Vamps, Werewolves and Hunters in the same world. Fuck the rest, or make their own universe for them. And keep Werewolves weaker than Vamps plz.

Fuck off man, this wouldn't even make sense. It's better to treat everything as the same setting "but not really" as in the entire focus of the world is in whatever game you are playing.

 

[Excidium II]

Also I like the core systems, specially the resolution with loads of d10s.

 

[Ninjerk]

Also I like the core systems, specially the resolution with loads of d10s.

You'd love WEG Star Wars :D

 

[Excidium II]

You'd love WEG Star Wars :D

I've heard of it. Isn't that the original dice pool game? Or at least the one to popularize the style

 

[Ninjerk]

I've heard of it. Isn't that the original dice pool game? Or at least the one to popularize the style

Might be. You had d6es and as you increase proficiency in things you added +es to your rolls and I think after +2 you add another die or something like that. They never actually laid down any guidelines as to when to stop adding dice and the setting naturally powercreeped (as well as scale conversions which were annoying). The setting was really awesome, though. It's like what Star Wars would have been if 80s cyberpunk writers and artists got a hold of it.

 

[Excidium II]

he setting was really awesome, though. It's like what Star Wars would have been if 80s cyberpunk writers and artists got a hold of it.

Looks like I need to check it out.

 

[Ninjerk]

Looks like I need to check it out.

Well, I say it was awesome but it's been at least 10 years since I've seen the books. It's awesome compared to what they've done since the new trilogy and the acquisition. I might be speaking a bit from the nostalgia of being a Star Wars geek as a kid.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I never did buy how humanity could even stand a chance (incendiary rounds and all) if supernatural stuff started revealing itself.

Pro-tip: They never did if the sleeping granddaddies and their children are factored in. Camarilla are just overcautious pussies like that.

 

[Excidium II]

Well I've always imagined any really powerful vampire has been around long enough to realize what small fish their kind is in the grand scheme of things so it's in the interest of everyone to be discreet.

 

[Andhaira]

Why did you even bother with the game then? The central theme is that timeless creatures are running out of time.

No it's not. It can be if you choose it to be, but you could always have ignored the ghenna subplot because until the line was ended it was very vague when ghenna would arrive, if it would arrive at all. The entire purpose of the Sabbat was to avoid the coming of Ghenna by removing the need for the Masquerade.

If anything the should nerf everything across the board. Considering the amount of stupid DBZ powers everybody gets I never did buy how humanity could even stand a chance (incendiary rounds and all) if supernatural stuff started revealing itself.

Vamps didn't have any DBZ type powers, unless you are talking about the Antidiluveans who were asleep. Or maybe Tremer, who had access to fire magic, which I have noted was retarded. Werewolves were too powerful though, as were Mages which as I mentioned should be nerfed harshly. Vampires OTOH need a boost; players start out as 13th Gen pussies. What is the point of playing a supernatural creature if you can be mowed down so easily? But by stronger I really don't mean city destroying powers.

Sneaking on a single human should be easy but if the mob with pitchforks starts coming for ya you should be afraid.

That was always possible in Vampire, especially given their vulneriblity to fire. Oh and the fact that Sunlight can destroy them. Fire/sunlight damage could never be soaked.

I always hated that people started playing this game as if it were Underworld. The moment my players started wearing leather dusters and swords I started bringing down the hunters on them because to hell with that.

Underworld vamps were shit. In that universe werewolves much stronger, only top tier vamps like Selene or Victor stood a chance.

Vampires should never have to resort to mundane weapons like guns to take out humans or fight with others of their kinds (save maybe stuff like silver swords and the like). Their physical strength, speed and disciplines should make them more than a match for any human, else what is the point of being a vampire? But they still have to hide due to their weaknesses, and the fact that humanity outnumbers them by a lot.

 

[Excidium II]

Werewolves were too powerful though, as were Mages which as I mentioned should be nerfed harshly

Your face should be nerfed harshly. Average Werewolf and Mage chars might be strong in comparison to Vampire chars but much more powerful are also the antagonists they tend to fight. WoD games have different styles and some operate on completely different scale/power level, your idea of scaling everything to match and having an universal design for all games is what they did on the nWoD, and is part of the reason it's BSB

 

[Andhaira]

Your face should be nerfed harshly. Average Werewolf and Mage chars might be strong in comparison to Vampire chars but much more powerful are also the antagonists they tend to fight. WoD games have different styles and some operate on completely different scale/power level, your idea of scaling everything to match and having an universal design for all games is what they did on the nWoD, and is part of the reason it's BSB

You seem to have problems reading. I already mentioned in my OP that I loathe how White Wolf stuffed every supernatural trope and then some into the same universe at the same time. This ought to be changed.

And whatever 'scale' or 'powerlevel' werewovles and mages operate can easily be changed. Vampires ought to be stronger than a stupid manmutt built only to appeal to degenerate furfaggots. Vampires are supposed to be apex predators, their entire shtick is built around that, that they are predators. It makes no sense that a stupid wolf on two legs ought to be a threat to them, one on one. Go read twilight for shit like that.

 

[Excidium II]

You seem to have problems reading. I already mentioned in my OP that I loathe how White Wolf stuffed every supernatural trope and then some into the same universe at the same time. This ought to be changed.

But it is more or less different universes if you ignore metaplot bullshit. Sure they all technically share the same world but it's p. rare to stumble on one another, it won't happen in your game unless you allow it and then it's your problem to deal with it. If you want to make other supernaturals wimps in your game just do it, it doesn't affect anything since in a vampire game only vampires are really relevant.

And whatever 'scale' or 'powerlevel' werewovles and mages operate can easily be changed. Vampires ought to be stronger than a stupid manmutt built only to appeal to degenerate furfaggots. Vampires are supposed to be apex predators, their entire shtick is built around that, that they are predators. It makes no sense that a stupid wolf on two legs ought to be a threat to them, one on one. Go read twilight for shit like that.

No, werewolves should be apex predators, it's a whole damn race of soldiers who have been around since prehistoric times. Besides vampires as a whole are already at an advantage against werewolves because of their influence on humanity, and the fact they aren't waging a millenia-old war against a cosmic entity. A werewolf can easily kill a vampire, a vampire with decent clout can do a phone call and fuck up the entire war effort of werewolves in a region

Go read twilight for shit like that.

Says the guy who wants vampires to be MORE AWSUM!!! because omigosh vampires

 

[Ludo Lense]

Else what is the point of being a vampire?

This is my biggest problem with how I think players don't play WoD properly, being these creatures isn't supposed to be traditionally "fun". Usually in these types of stories the immensely powerful supernatural creature is at the same time cursed.

Take Pirates of The Caribbean for example. Sure Barbarossa and his crew are invulnerable undead pirates but at the same they cannot sate neither their hunger, thirst or lust. Thus they want to gain their humanity back. Or in Castle Ravenloft, Strahd von Zarovich is insanely powerful but at the same time he is continually tortured by memories and reincarnations of his beloved.

I dislike the fact that people act like "Yes! I am no longer a stupid human! Sure I can't stay in the sun but dude, I can mess people up now".

I would make Vampires somewhat stronger than humans (but not bench press a car level) but with considerable regeneration (anything that gets removed from a vampire like flesh or bodily fluids immediately turns into dust and it regrows rather fast, only damage to the heart kills them, think Alucard from Hellsing regeneration), the focus being on charm-like abilities and subterfuge (turn into mist, bats, invisibility etc.) that helps them subdue victims or get the hell out of dodge.

 

[Akasen]

Fucking hell, what is this bullshit?

I don't particularly enjoy werewolves as it stands. Or at least, I hate the White Wolf writing on what Werewolves were. If I read right, they were nothing more than Earth hippies that fought for the Earth and shit. And I just didn't give a crap about these OP as fuck beings whose whole goal in life was to be the personified version of Captain Planet.

However, making it so that in the scheme of the Vampire vs Werewolf battle, Werewolves win because they in-essence regenerate like a box worth of damage every round, could soak most damage, probably roll 10d10's for soak, and do large amounts of aggravated damage? Whatever, good enough reason not to go in the woods or something.

I mean, in respects to the meta, some really old as fuck Kindred could easily kill off hundreds of Werewolves without dying. Heck, I'd argue that 13th generation neonates with maxed out stats could do a good show to some degree. But whatever the case may be, werewolves inherently roam outside the cities for the most part. Vampires stay in the cities because it provides safety from the werewolves and because it gives a supply of humans to hunt and feed upon.

What's so hard about accepting this stuff? If most people in this community are already sitting there and being like "Hurdur, Vampires in Vampire the Masquerade are nothing more than goths with superheroes", then what good is making them take the one thing on in a fight?! (in writing)

Honestly, I don't see an issue in most of Vampires overall writing and execution. Though this may be because I've played very little vampire, ran a bunch of failure games, have been studying this game like a fucking religion for years (and only recently started playing some Vampire in like late 2012), and honestly at this point have my own particular head-canon regarding shit in these games.

 

[Excidium II]

I don't particularly enjoy werewolves as it stands. Or at least, I hate the White Wolf writing on what Werewolves were. If I read right, they were nothing more than Earth hippies that fought for the Earth and shit. And I just didn't give a crap about these OP as fuck beings whose whole goal in life was to be the personified version of Captain Planet.

10/10 would rage again

 

[Ninjerk]

10/10 would fail Humanity check again

 

[Excidium II]

Honestly, I don't see an issue in most of Vampires overall writing and execution. Though this may be because I've played very little vampire, ran a bunch of failure games, have been studying this game like a fucking religion for years (and only recently started playing some Vampire in like late 2012), and honestly at this point have my own particular head-canon regarding shit in these games.

It really is too hard to find good pnp players, much more so if you want to run something that isn't D&D. Local games are p. much ruled out unless you are extremely blessed, and via the internet with complete strangers is always a recipe for failure as people will just randomly bail after a handful of sessions.

And of course if you have a good regular group, all of them are prejudiced against WoD and think it's emo/brooding cringefest. Everything is shit

 

[Havoc]

Is this a rebrand of V20? No. V20's default assumption is that Gehenna is still a nebulous possibility (probability?) which may happen in the future. VTM4 follows directly from Revised: Gehenna (or something like it) happened 12 years ago. Where does that leave Kindred society now?

Wait... so it's a post-apo version?

 

[Luka-boy]

Wait... so it's a post-apo version?

It's post-Gehenna, which doesn't say much until they explain what actually happened, since their official attitude towards it was always that if it happened, nobody knows exactly how it would go and thus every player could come up with their own version of the Gehenna.

Hell, they might end up going with a Gehenna in the style of that one example scenario in their Gehenna sourcebook, where the majority of vampires die off slowly over the course of a month without the rest of the (human) world even noticing. That way they could keep a normal 2010s world and still change the balance of power and lore in the Vampire society.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

On the other hand, it might end up post-apoc if they went with some of the more extreme Gehenna scenarios (fat chance even just due to needing dat status quo fanboy money).

 

[Andhaira]

One of the reasons they rebooted the line was the attacks of 9/11 and the aftermath; they didn't want a bunch of retarded emo LARPERs creeping out in suburbs late at night, dressed in black and whispering about Jyhad.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

This is my biggest problem with how I think players don't play WoD properly, being these creatures isn't supposed to be traditionally "fun". Usually in these types of stories the immensely powerful supernatural creature is at the same time cursed.

Time is an abyss... profound as a thousand nights... Centuries come and go... To be unable to grow old is terrible... Death is not the worst... Can you imagine enduring centuries, experiencing each day the same futilities...