My collected criticism on Pillars of Eternity (very minor spoilers)

[Bonerbill]

Nope

Yep

 

[Trip]

It's not larger than life and it wasn't written like a fantasy story.

Well, it's neither realistic nor gritty, really. It's bland. Which is the opposite of "characterful and interesting", not of "high-fantasy crazy faux-shakespearean talk"

 

[Waterd]

I didn´t play BG2 because BG1 was so bad. but being miles better than BG1, doesnt mean squat.

 

[Kz3r0]

I think the only time I even learned forward to really read what I was reading was that awesome conversation with durance

it was a stellar piece of writing and slips just slightly out of Sawyer's preferred method of "doing the exact opposite of Baldur's gate".

 

[Beastro]

One quest that stood out to me that really pissed me off was the nobleman's daughter with his child. I basically got a modern day, liberally naive options at the ending dialogue. This was a big point where I thought wtf what fucking developer inserted their ego here?

That one really annoyed me since I expected I could tell the girl to go back and just got variations of "You're free no, he won't hurt you". Then I went back and let him know I knew what was going on and only got insulting him or demanding more money. I picked aristocrat as my background on my first play through and wanted to play someone who would understand what it was like for their noble house of be dying out and need to take measure to perpetuate, but that angle was completely blocked off.

The funny thing is it wasn't even his daughter, it was only his niece and he was preventing family property from passing out of the family. The bloody thing is this isn't even out there much less Game of Thrones crazy shit like the Targaryans. Uncle/niece marriages happened all the bloody time to prevent the very thing he was trying to stop from happening and anyone in that setting wouldn't find anything wrong with it even if they felt their bloodlines were too close, but there's zero open to take that very stance and demand more from him given what the stakes are for his family by telling him where you told his niece to go (Much less, you know, telling her to come with you and handing her right over).

Aloth didnt belong in the setting, tbh magic as a whole doesnt fit in it.

His was another story that annoyed me, all the more so since it was the first companion quest I did. How they alluded to what was going with him seemed to set up his other personality taking over and pushing you into situations you don't want to be in, but no he eventually just tells you about what's going on, then you see someone who looks him over and then you're given some stupid options like "Show her who's boss and take over your body" and "Coexist with her".

I wanted to do what the doctor recommended and convince Aloth to have the surgery to remove the organ that the other soul was concentrated in because it was at least something more than shrugging my shoulders at the problems and going on like the rest of the options, but it never came. I actually reloaded a few times thinking I'd somehow skipped such an options by picking the wrong part of the dialogue tree until I got fed up and looked the quest up online only to be told that that's all there is.

I get the angle of all the side quests and how they all blend into the theme of futility in the overall story, but there could have been more than just that shrugging. Have Aloth go through the surgery and realize it did nothing or have Kana struggle more looking for more evidence in the Endless Paths that he's been after instead of just giving up so suddenly (was another quest I reloaded thinking I'd done something to pick a crappy ending for it), just don't have the peter out like that.

About the only quest that goes anywhere is Durance's when he realizes he was on the wrong side of the war. The revelation there wasn't that he was used simply used but that all he sacrificed was ultimately meaningless and only to improve Magran's position and everything he'd felt about Eothas and Raedceras was wrong all thanks to not only Magran but his own ego.

GW I was expecting to go somewhere but he conversations did nothing for me like Durance's did, where you felt like you were interacting with another personality. Her's was just weird, vaguely worded shit until I realized her entire world view was Postmodern crap with her rejection of Truth and objectivity and it's a good thing to fuck with people's minds if it means leaving them with good, false memories.

 

[hell bovine]

If you kill/demand more money/threaten him you lose reputation with defiance bay.

Yes, well...

 

[Beastro]

One quest that stood out to me that really pissed me off was the nobleman's daughter with his child. I basically got a modern day, liberally naive options at the ending dialogue. This was a big point where I thought wtf what fucking developer inserted their ego here?

That one really annoyed me since I expected I could tell the girl to go back and just got variations of "You're free no, he won't hurt you". Then I went back and let him know I knew what was going on and only got insulting him or demanding more money. I picked aristocrat as my background on my first play through and wanted to play someone who would understand what it was like for their noble house of be dying out and need to take measure to perpetuate, but that angle was completely blocked off.

The funny thing is it wasn't even his daughter, it was only his niece and he was preventing family property from passing out of the family. The bloody thing is this isn't even out there much less Game of Thrones crazy shit like the Targaryans. Uncle/niece marriages happened all the bloody time to prevent the very thing he was trying to stop from happening and anyone in that setting wouldn't find anything wrong with it even if they felt their bloodlines were too close, but there's zero open to take that very stance and demand more from him given what the stakes are for his family by telling him where you told his niece to go (Much less, you know, telling her to come with you and handing her right over).

If you kill/demand more money/threaten him you lose reputation with defiance bay.

Still doesn't solve why I can't side with him and turn his niece over to him.

 

[jdinatale]

My impression was that the writing was a patchwork of different ideas, some of which worked, but the majority didn't. And yeah, I started skipping dialogs to.

The the annoying thing about this game was, that if they cut out all gods, reincarnations,Thaos and also magic, and just left a country on the brink of destruction (due to children being born soulless), it would be a better story.

But then it would be called "Children of Men", a novel and major motion picture starring Clive Owen

 

[Ninjerk]

My impression was that the writing was a patchwork of different ideas, some of which worked, but the majority didn't. And yeah, I started skipping dialogs to.

The the annoying thing about this game was, that if they cut out all gods, reincarnations,Thaos and also magic, and just left a country on the brink of destruction (due to children being born soulless), it would be a better story.

But then it would be called "Children of Men", a novel and major motion picture starring Clive Owen

It would be tonally consistent, too

 

[Theldaran]

New user here at the Codex, so you'll probably sneer at me, but still.

I know PoE's general discussion is months old, but my new machine arrived recently so...

First I gotta say that I'm a long-time IE games fan, I play through BG and BG2 minimum 1 time a year, recently. And that's because I'm running out of good games. Of course there's a major nostalgy factor for the IE games, but also their great replayability. Once, those games were the pinnacle of CRPG.

But PoE? I've started playing it seriously and I will take the caveats with caution. Already some issues are becoming apparent; such as the bland mechanics -spells and abilities are kinda dull, and I took a glance at items at shops and they were also equally dull, strange encounter design -Caed Nua at level 3, anyone?, and generic setting -like someone pointed out, "fantasy Wales".

Yes, the graphics and art are very nice, but aren't all in a CRPG and were also of top quality when IE games were first released.

I'm starting to think PoE won't be my cup of tea, and I'm kinda sad. Now as for the game itself I think I'm gonna explore more and even go to that southern port city, since I need more level to beat the present dungeons (stuck at Caed Nua).

I expected some split of opinions as with IE games themselves, but once the blemishes are pointed out, either they're true or not... and when they're true, it's just a matter of whether you ignore them and roll with the game or they kill the game for you.

 

[Lhynn]

Its a soulless game with no quality content. The best thing it has going for itself are the graphics.
I love to joke about poe being the worst thing ever, but its not true. its just the most disappointing thing ever.

 

[Cadmus]

Don't read the game's discussion until after you've played it or it'll spoil the game for you.

Its a soulless game with no quality content. The best thing it has going for itself are the graphics.
I love to joke about poe being the worst thing ever, but its not true. its just the most disappointing thing ever.

It's the most disappointing thing since my son.

 

[Ninjerk]

New user here at the Codex, so you'll probably sneer at me, but still.

I know PoE's general discussion is months old, but my new machine arrived recently so...

First I gotta say that I'm a long-time IE games fan, I play through BG and BG2 minimum 1 time a year, recently. And that's because I'm running out of good games. Of course there's a major nostalgy factor for the IE games, but also their great replayability. Once, those games were the pinnacle of CRPG.

But PoE? I've started playing it seriously and I will take the caveats with caution. Already some issues are becoming apparent; such as the bland mechanics -spells and abilities are kinda dull, and I took a glance at items at shops and they were also equally dull, strange encounter design -Caed Nua at level 3, anyone?, and generic setting -like someone pointed out, "fantasy Wales".

Yes, the graphics and art are very nice, but aren't all in a CRPG and were also of top quality when IE games were first released.

I'm starting to think PoE won't be my cup of tea, and I'm kinda sad. Now as for the game itself I think I'm gonna explore more and even go to that southern port city, since I need more level to beat the present dungeons (stuck at Caed Nua).

I expected some split of opinions as with IE games themselves, but once the blemishes are pointed out, either they're true or not... and when they're true, it's just a matter of whether you ignore them and roll with the game or they kill the game for you.

You already have it, you might as well give it a chance to make its impression upon you without influence from people who have an axe to grind or conversely who feel like if the game is bad that they are bad people or something.

 

[prodigydancer]

First I gotta say that I'm a long-time IE games fan, I play through BG and BG2 minimum 1 time a year, recently.

You might wanna check out this thread before you trust Codex's opinion on PoE.

 

[Morality Games]

I honestly love Pillar's setting. It's really not "Forgotten Realms but Dull". Cmon man

Mm, yes and no.

PoE setting has a lot of great nuances but that is what they come across as, nuances. As often as not you don't feel it as you are playing through the game. In contrast, Planescape: Torment breathes awesomeness.

 

[Bonerbill]

Mm, yes and no.

PoE setting has a lot of great nuances but that is what they come across as, nuances. As often as not you don't feel it as you are playing through the game. In contrast, Planescape: Torment breathes awesomeness.

There are a lot of cool events that happen in the PoE (like the whole Dyrwood conflict), but otherwise the world just feesl like forgotten realms light. I think the main problem with the setting is that it wants to be a more "grounded" version of forgotten realms, but that just makes the world less interesting.

 

[Morality Games]

There are a lot of cool events that happen in the PoE (like the whole Dyrwood conflict), but otherwise the world just feesl like forgotten realms light. I think the main problem with the setting is that it wants to be a more "grounded" version of forgotten realms, but that just makes the world less interesting.

There are a few genre benders. For example, the suggestion (only fully comprehensible to the player) that Eora exists according to a mostly materialistic logic (except souls exist and are recycled as energy in a very tangible and scientifically verifiable way). So the different races evolved from a common ancestor in a manner similar to the relationships between sapeins, neanderthals, and other near-human relatives. Similar enough biologically they can still form affective bonds and sexual attachments, but not enough to produce mixed offspring.

Brings a strange kind of richness to the setting. On one hand you have these gods that *seem* to exist a pantheon similar to the Forgotten Realms, bringing a similar kind of cosmic sense to the world and races they govern, except unlike in the Realms this authority that permeates every aspect of mortal culture is fundamentally a lie. The world of Eora shares the same fundamental existential mysteries as our own universe, and the perplexities of these issues become conflated with the illusion of order and purpose provided by the Eoran pantheon.

Other variations include the idea that the gods' methods are flawed not because they are human (as in the Realms) but because they *aren't*.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

There's a lot of interesting quirks into the setting, but as a whole it doesn't really come togehter.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think the main problem with the setting is that it wants to be a more "grounded" version of forgotten realms, but that just makes the world less interesting.

I don't think it's a direct consequence. I believe one can tell a very interesting story set in a world which is more realistic than the FR high fantasy type of world. In the end, every fantasy story is based on reality. A world that contains elves and dwarves doesn't immediately become more interesting (as PoE testifies), and respectively - real-world history contains some of the best plot lines, which no author could come up with by just reading other fantasy authors.

Sawyer recently posted some info on the game's lore, mentioning the names of some Dyrwood noble families. What struck me was that was the first time I saw these names outside of the game's lorebook (some sort of backer reward if I remember right).

Just like in many other of PoE's aspects, its setting feels as if someone got an idea and started working on it, but never quite finished it. IMO it's just another unfinished side of a project which is itself unfinished as a whole. That's the cause for it feeling less interesting, not the realistic approach to world-building.

 

[Theldaran]

Can't swear upon the Bible, but I suspect many of the problems of PoE arise from a hurried and incomplete developing time.

Compare this with Baldur's Gate, which was done with the utmost love, and the sequel was released 2 years later with a great base to expand upon, and still improved it.

This is common in modern games, the hype just kills them because we expect something well done and instead things are rushed and even downright broken just to meet the deadline. It's difficult to stall a game's release because of the fans' clamor but if the game's gonna end up shit I'd consider it...

Anyone thinks a masterpiece can be done overnight? I suspect much of PoE's development time was spent on the graphics of each area.

CRPG, especially ones meant to beat the legacy of BG have to sink a lot of development time onto them, or else they come off either short or just silly (like NWN).

 

[Xeon]

Yea, I always thought RPG devs spend a few years to build the world and the lore then start making the game to flesh it out, or take an established world and make a game out of.

Obsidian only had 2-3 years to get the engine to work and create a new world and everything from scratch and probably only some of the devs worked on it. I hope they do good on PoE2, Obsidian always do good in the sequels I think.

 

[Copper]

But that's what writers and designers are for - sure, Sawyer gets a pass on not really doing much with Pallegina, because he had serious dials to twist - but the area designers and writers have one job - make interesting quests happen, to which the lore is a slave. I'm not the world's number one MCA fan, but at least he pushed for cyphers, who are probably the most interestingly 'my power is SOUL power' class there, and some other stuff.

Take these noble families - they're the equivalent of electors in the HRE, the real power in the Dyrwood, the people who have armies, etc. That much the game tells you, even if in a book.

It would have made sense to have them, or their representatives, be the key figures in the trial, not the mob, the cops, and the other kind of mob. Then all that heraldry might have been worth something, a nice pageant for Durance to scoff at. As it is, it's Sawyer's headcanon. Have one of them be Raedric's liege, and someone else be his wife's father/brother/mother/sister. (Of course, it's a sidequest that was slotted in at the last minute - so killing a lord of the land has no bearing on anything.)

I think it's more a question of re-writes/re-designs messing with continuity a bit, and a lack of central vision from a Lead Writer of Chris's abilities. It's a shame they couldn't keep Zeits - I think in two years, his written output might be more than all of A Song of Ice and Fire.

 

[Copper]

And there's time wasted on the daftest shit.

1. "These bones are mouldy"
2. "More mouldy bones"
3. "Rats have gnawed at these ones!"
4. "This skeleton lies against the wall, one hand resting on a tattered page, quill rotted to near-nothingness, the other unmistakably giving you the finger."

 

[Lhynn]

There are a few genre benders. For example, the suggestion (only fully comprehensible to the player) that Eora exists according to a mostly materialistic logic (except souls exist and are recycled as energy in a very tangible and scientifically verifiable way). So the different races evolved from a common ancestor in a manner similar to the relationships between sapeins, neanderthals, and other near-human relatives. Similar enough biologically they can still form affective bonds and sexual attachments, but not enough to produce mixed offspring.

Brings a strange kind of richness to the setting. On one hand you have these gods that *seem* to exist a pantheon similar to the Forgotten Realms, bringing a similar kind of cosmic sense to the world and races they govern, except unlike in the Realms this authority that permeates every aspect of mortal culture is fundamentally a lie. The world of Eora shares the same fundamental existential mysteries as our own universe, and the perplexities of these issues become conflated with the illusion of order and purpose provided by the Eoran pantheon.

Other variations include the idea that the gods' methods are flawed not because they are human (as in the Realms) but because they *aren't*.

Its all wasted because Eora is not an interesting place to visit, or a place were interesting events can easily take place.
Its one of the worst settings ever deviced when you take into account the kind of gameplay it has to accomodate, one really has to wonder what they were thinking when they went with it.

 

[Copper]

Yo, Eora be keeping it real, to the streets dog! Drug dealing, bitch-slapping shape-shifting mages, shorty killers, killer shorties, raping, incest-lovin' elven cocksuckers, drug dealing nobles and shit. Pallegina ain't got no time for this bullsheet!