Sarvis said:
Ok, instead of cars you're collecting swords (and get to keep them) and still exploring.
This doesn't work. All swords (heck...almost all one-handed weapons) swing the same way, whereas vehicles in GTA are very different. Some have NOS, hydraulics, some can fly, go on water, are amphibious, can off-road well, etc.
You've got a lot more sidequests and opportunities to join organizations.
Not really. GTA had plenty of "side missions" just like Oblivion. You could do one, and sometimes it would open a whole optional branch. The casino robbery and airstrip missions come to mind. Same as Oblivion basically. A bunch of linear quest sequences. Thing is, Oblivion you could only kill stuff, stealth stuff, or kill and stealth basically. In GTA you can race, have car fights/drive-bys/cop run-from-misions, escort missions (I know Oblivion had them technically....but still.....gold crown over the escorted's head....), and stealing high profile things.
The stuff you can collect is largely meaningless, and the most lasting aspect of character building in GTA:SA is turf wars.
Character building in Oblivion is just like that in San Andreas. Any character can be a master of everything with time. So my CJ can be a hitman with every gun, have full flying, driving, boating, swimming, running, biking, and muscle skills all at once. Just like my Oblivion character can be a master of every skill. No restrictions in either and nothing to really differentiate endgame characters.
Oblvion is like GTA; mediocre, tacked on combat with tons of rather pointless areas to explore filled with inconsequencial findings, and no lasting consequences for your choices. Except Oblivion doesn't have the superb satire of American culture, good music selection, varied transportation methods, and varied weaponry. Basically, GTA is the game that does "lots of mediocrity" right. Oblivion is the one that does it wrong.
Considering no one here bought Oblivion expecting it to be a good RPG, I fail to see your point. You're vilifying it for being what you expected when you bought it? Do go on.
Companies categorize their product to allow customers to have an idea of what they are buying. If I bought a razor to shave with, and it turned out to be a sex toy...well, I'd be a tad bit upset and feel cheated. Same deal here.
Why not, instead of bitching and whining, create constructive criticism or even work on your own games like VD is doing?
Constructive criticism doesn't work. Oblivion proves just that. After Morrowind people came up with tons of improvement ideas. Bethesda only listened to the people who bitched about finding Caius, to-hit rolls, and how it was hard when they found a monster. As for making a game, find me someone who is batshit crazy enough to join up with me and can program and then we'll talk.
I said it isn't one. Several times. What's your point?
I doubt it can make sense in this context, but I was arguing how one could argue it as a terrible RPG, even when it isn't. Like I said, context is lost now.
Except that it's the same as Morrowind's, so any "counter-intuitivity" should have been overshadowed by your experiences with Morrowind.
That's not true. Morrowind didn't have power attacks besides holding the button down for a "charged" strike. It also had the different directional swings as well, which controlled differently. Oblivion's power attacks require an analog stick direction held down along with a trigger push. And they always go in the same direction. No backward thrust while retreating for you in Oblivion.
And the different attacks DO have different effects once you get enough skill.
Not really, they do less damage for a miniscule chance of an effect,because by the time you have the nifty power attacks, enemies resist them like no tommorrow due tolevel scaling.
You chose to play i na certain style, and blame the game for giving you the freedom to do so? Are you arguing AGAINST a game giving you freedom?
No, I'm against glaring imbalances that render all other styles of play inferior in efficiency. Compare my Oblivion dominant strategy to eye-shots in Fallout. Yes...eye shots were probably the best thing for a small guns/energy weapons wielder, but they were difficult to pull off, especially for unskilled characters, and the other weapon types couldn't take full advantage of them. Compare to the blck, slash, slash style in Oblivion. Any weapon can block and will be able to force an enemy recoil far too often, allowing for two (or three if you're fast enough) strikes. Any character can use this. It overshadows every other fighting style in efficiency and ease of use. And since I'm forced into fighting all the damn time, I just used that strategy to ensure a quick victory. And it does work against two opponents. Any more, and any fighting style will fail besides the dominant strategy for ranged....run backwards and shoot.
I didn't say better than Morrowind, I just claimed you said it was good.
True, but it's an important distinction. In the grand scheme of things, it's alright, but when compared to Morrowind, it's predecessor, it's awful. Progress should be made in sequels, not regression.
Good, because I intend to keep using it.
The underscores are a pin....
You're either lying or they changed something in patches or between the PC and XBox version, because they've definately used it at point blank range on me. It hurts too, a lot.
Faded wraiths maybe? They were a little more berserk and prone to random things. I also think they were the variety without a sword.
Again, you must go through a fortune in potions.
Alchemy anyone? And poisons were absolutely brutal as well.
I believe at the time I was using an Ebony Longsword so it doesn't get much stronger than that. (Except when I fill up the charge, but that's my own personal Deus Ex Machina for tough situations...)
Daedric is a huge step above ebony, as is Goldbrand and/or Umbra. Not to mention Daedroths reflect and absorb physical damage. Keep those charged weapons full, the charge is what counts because thanks to level scaling, enemy damage resistance keeps on going up....but your skill and weapon power can only go s far....however magic bypasses all that. Funny, huh?
I guess nothing has "enough power" if you have infinite potions.
And that's another serious design flaw as well...that was also present in Fallout 2 (and patched Fallout 1) as well, the ability to use an infinite amount of usables in your inventory. That shouldn't work. Oblivion tries to let you only use ten potions per inventory menu opening....but that doesn't help much seeing as it's enough to heal any wound, no matter how grievous. And any incurred can be immediately patched up. Not to mention potions are far overpowered a well. Shadows of Amn handled healing potions well 6 years before....why can't Oblivion?
Frankly, I'd rather fight a spider daedra than a will-o-the-wisp in the daytime. Since you can't see it's glow you can't tell when it's about to fire, and getting hit just once can mean game over if it knocks you down and he gets another spell off.
Fair enough....I forget them as well....the blinking out was decent enemy design. Pity only two enemies had interesting behaviors and attack scripts.
Yes, it looked desolate and created a desolate atmosphere. Then it got boring as you realized how drab everything was, and how ugly everything was. Why does Morrowind get a pass on that when you constantly complain about the similarity of the various areas in Oblivion? At least they are different colors!
Morrowind was a whole different and unique setting. It may have been one color, but the previously mentioned stuff redeemed it. Oblivion had a lot of colors, but it looked like all other fantasy trash on the market. More colors does not equal more unique.
But why is it that here on the Codex it's the Worst. Game. Ever?
Because it is constantly paraded as best RPG ever by everyone else and it really is below average in most aspects. It's not good, and it had a ton of hype. Do the math.
Think about it though, you've mostly stated that a lot of the systems are mediocre at best... but how many games actually bring all these systems together as well as Oblivion has?
Plenty do most of them better. GTA, Bloodlines, System Shock, System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Thief 3, Hitman 2, Mercenaries, Way of the Samurai, Morrowind, and probably a few others. all have a degree of free-roaming, all have more choices than Oblivion, more varied and in-depth combat, a degree of looting and exploration above Oblivion (with actual interesting stuff to find), and probably better in almost every way as well, unless of course you want a hiking simulator with shiny trees.
Only in terms of choices, but since the grand total of people who care about that is the Codex it's hardly likely to happen.
And that's why every preview of Fallout 3 has been screaming about them, it was Shadows of Amn's "big thing" in marketing, and such. Sure, we aren't the biggest population, but we articulate ourselves in a far more eloquent maner...and it seems to work.
Sorry, they're out to make money... not give you a C&C bukkake.
Who says they can't do both?
Don't like it? Maybe you can join VD's team.
"Don't like it? Go change it yourself?", brilliant. Because you can't ptition or rally....like every damn activist group on the bloody planet.
I shouldn't have to spend hours hotkeying everything just to play a game and make the interface bearable.
The hotkeys were preset, all the skilldex skills were accessible, as were basic commands; all through keystrokes. It was in the manual, you know.
And no, the AI in Fallout was shitty. Everyone, expecially your group members" just runs up to point blank range and starts firing.
What game did you play? They moved to within firing range, maintained it, and shot.
No room for any real strategy or planning. Can't even set up a simple fucking trap surrounding a door and shooting enemies as they come out.
It wasn't Tom Clancy's Postnuclear Six.....
1) AI controlled allies that mostly get themselves killed (AI controlled allies is a BIG thing for me btw.)
Uh....they weren't supposed to be anything more than temporary allies. Read the design docs. Dogmeat was intended to die, as were Ian, and Katja as they were ill-equipped. Tycho was the only one they gave a fighting chance, but even he was mutant fodder. Ultimately, Fallout 1 was a solo game.
2) turn based combat, but you only control one person so it's meaningless because you're just watching enemies rush you until they are close enough to gaurantee hits.
It's meaning was to guarantee character skill dominance.
Implementation of cover and decent AI (enemies NOT knowing instantly your exact location) would have gone a long way, as well as having full party control.
Full party control would have helped nothing. It wasn't a party game. And of course better AI would have helped, it always would. AI is never good enough. Even oblivion with the all-mighty Radiant AI can't have an enemy figure out how to get you on a rock.
3) Aforementioned poor interface, especially for shops and dialog.
Inventory was rather poor, but dialogue? It worked perfectly.
4) Quests where I expected freedom of choice, but which never had options I thought of or had illusory options. (Being able to blow up the entrance to the radscorpion cave, or sneak the girl out of the bandit camp in the middle of the night for instance.)
So you're pissed that you couldn't do everything you could ever think of? It's a CRPG for cryin' out loud! And you could actually do both of those "illusory" options as well.
Interesting accusation... considering yours is "I didn't like it, so it must be the Worst. Game. Ever!"
Except...you know...all the reasons I've provided as to why it is a bad game....
No, but if different sucks then it sucks. If Morrowind had really cool design it'd be a different story. Brown on brown on brown isn't all that interesting, sorry.
So you discredit an entire game's setting just because it didn't have lots of color? Please say this isn't true....
Because some characters might be stronger than others?But no, it's much easier to just accuse people of being inept and stupid, isn't it?
You totally missed the point. I was questioning the need for level scaling to keep the gameplay flowing if the difficulty slider is already in place. And yes...level scaling is idiot-proofing and/or a result of Bethesda's inept handling of resources most likely.
Are there? That's interesting, since I thought everything was randomly generated. At least,that's what you complained about before. Maybe you're right though, since I've probably only done like 5 gates total...
Same template, level scaled enemies, leveled loot. Repeat ad nauseum.
The realistic option would be for the guilds to put demands on the players time so that they couldn't have time to keep up with duties for multiple guilds
Good idea....straight out of Daggerfall.
but that's anathema to TES design,which is all about freedom to roam and do what you want.
Cough...Daggerfall time limits on quests....cough. TES design is that of a roguelike, not an idiot's sandbox.
Not to mention that it would get tedious for players.
Then don't join every guild. Simple as that.
Your words would have more weight if it wasn't the same game as when I first came to the forum defending NWN
This isn't a reaction to me, it's <i>what the Codex <b>does</b></i>.
You sure? You're just admitting to the defense of the old poster-child of shit RPG hyped to hell. I think it is you.
Are you truly going to go down the DU path and start putting words in my mouth?
Merely an example...not trying to state it as your words.
Notice how the elitist assholes thing didn't come until after people started hurling insults at me? Even in your twisted version?
Yes, perhaps you shouldn't have responded. Be the proverbial "bigger man".
Oh, and I never mentioned Torment.
You grouped Fallout, Torment, and Arcanum in another thread saying Final Fantasy 6 was more fun than them....pretty much the same thing.