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Is Pillars of Eternity worth playing?

Lucky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
672
I had this gifted to me a while back and, with the expansion around the corner, gave it a try to see whether getting the expansion and doing a full playthrough would be worthwhile instead of waiting for the sequel. I’ve been going in completely blind and currently stopped at the beach with the kobolds, having just got Durance, and I’m still on the fence about it.

- The environments look gorgeous, though they’re a bit empty. It's definitely making me curious to explore.

- Loooaaaaadddddiiiiinnnnnggggg.

- The writing hasn’t impressed me so far. It’s adjective heaven without proper pacing or placing. The worst were the people in the first town into whose soul you can gaze: you get a chunk of text with no further interaction or hooks to it that seems completely disconnected from the town’s situation. You can also do this before you have the tree cutscene where you learn about your powers, so it’s weird how my character isn’t surprised by any of this. It all feels very out of place and I’m hoping they’re not important as I quickly started skipping them.

- The soul peeking seems like it could be fun. It reminds me of regaining memories in Torment, though it hasn’t been as evocative at this stage of the game. It’s clearly the change in the player character’s life that is supposed to kickstart the plot, but so far it feels more like a fairly normal ability rather than something life changing. I’m hoping this’ll change along the way.

- The companions I’ve seen have been boring shitheads, with Durance as the shining exception. The introduction fighter was an annoying asshole and the thief had no personality at all, so seeing them croak didn’t exactly motivate me to go get revenge on the villain. Of my ‘real’ partymembers, Aloth is a passive-aggressive cunt with nothing of worth to say and Eder reads like an edgy teenager trying to act like he’s world-weary.
Durance, however, is much more interesting than all the others: a racist missionary both judgmental and astute. He shows how to properly introduce a player to the lore of the setting by making his info dumps reflect how he sees the world, showcasing who he is while also bringing the world to life through him, instead of being painfully disconnected from his character (fuck you Eder). He feels like a Torment or Betrayer character in comparison to the Baldur’s Gate blandness of the others, though it helps that he has way more dialog to explore for some reason. I’m definitely keeping him in my party if I continue.

- Combat is a change of pace from D&D, though I’m not sure if I like it yet. It feels...floaty? Like my build choices are inconsequential. Could be that I just don’t have a feel for the game’s build archetypes yet, though, as I haven’t been paying much attention to the mechanics.

- Quests have been sort of dull. The best one was the temple under the town, but it I feel like it could have done a better job of showing me the Eothian mindset. Having Eder around especially felt like it should have been a lot more meaningful.

All in all, there’s been more meh than I hoped for, but there’s room for growth and finding Durance has given me hope that playing it might be worth it. Some of the things I’m interested in knowing: can I troll Durance by playing as an Eothian priest? Does being an Eothian have as much of an impact on the game as it feels like it should? By extension, are there any other meaningful starting options (being a Bleak Walker seems like it might very grim if it plays as advertised)? Are there more companions like Durance? Does the game improve in terms of writing quality, quest depth and encounter design? Does the story get more interesting and does it have a satisfying conclusion? Is this combat rewarding if you take the time to learn the systems?
 

dragonul09

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,445
I had this gifted to me a while back and, with the expansion around the corner, gave it a try to see whether getting the expansion and doing a full playthrough would be worthwhile instead of waiting for the sequel. I’ve been going in completely blind and currently stopped at the beach with the kobolds, having just got Durance, and I’m still on the fence about it.

- The environments look gorgeous, though they’re a bit empty. It's definitely making me curious to explore.

- Loooaaaaadddddiiiiinnnnnggggg.

- The writing hasn’t impressed me so far. It’s adjective heaven without proper pacing or placing. The worst were the people in the first town into whose soul you can gaze: you get a chunk of text with no further interaction or hooks to it that seems completely disconnected from the town’s situation. You can also do this before you have the tree cutscene where you learn about your powers, so it’s weird how my character isn’t surprised by any of this. It all feels very out of place and I’m hoping they’re not important as I quickly started skipping them.

- The soul peeking seems like it could be fun. It reminds me of regaining memories in Torment, though it hasn’t been as evocative at this stage of the game. It’s clearly the change in the player character’s life that is supposed to kickstart the plot, but so far it feels more like a fairly normal ability rather than something life changing. I’m hoping this’ll change along the way.

- The companions I’ve seen have been boring shitheads, with Durance as the shining exception. The introduction fighter was an annoying asshole and the thief had no personality at all, so seeing them croak didn’t exactly motivate me to go get revenge on the villain. Of my ‘real’ partymembers, Aloth is a passive-aggressive cunt with nothing of worth to say and Eder reads like an edgy teenager trying to act like he’s world-weary.
Durance, however, is much more interesting than all the others: a racist missionary both judgmental and astute. He shows how to properly introduce a player to the lore of the setting by making his info dumps reflect how he sees the world, showcasing who he is while also bringing the world to life through him, instead of being painfully disconnected from his character (fuck you Eder). He feels like a Torment or Betrayer character in comparison to the Baldur’s Gate blandness of the others, though it helps that he has way more dialog to explore for some reason. I’m definitely keeping him in my party if I continue.

- Combat is a change of pace from D&D, though I’m not sure if I like it yet. It feels...floaty? Like my build choices are inconsequential. Could be that I just don’t have a feel for the game’s build archetypes yet, though, as I haven’t been paying much attention to the mechanics.

- Quests have been sort of dull. The best one was the temple under the town, but it I feel like it could have done a better job of showing me the Eothian mindset. Having Eder around especially felt like it should have been a lot more meaningful.

All in all, there’s been more meh than I hoped for, but there’s room for growth and finding Durance has given me hope that playing it might be worth it. Some of the things I’m interested in knowing: can I troll Durance by playing as an Eothian priest? Does being an Eothian have as much of an impact on the game as it feels like it should? By extension, are there any other meaningful starting options (being a Bleak Walker seems like it might very grim if it plays as advertised)? Are there more companions like Durance? Does the game improve in terms of writing quality, quest depth and encounter design? Does the story get more interesting and does it have a satisfying conclusion? Is this combat rewarding if you take the time to learn the systems?

Nope,the game will get worse as you go further sadly,so keep your expectations low if you want to enjoy the game more...
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
- Combat is a change of pace from D&D, though I’m not sure if I like it yet. It feels...floaty? Like my build choices are inconsequential. Could be that I just don’t have a feel for the game’s build archetypes yet, though, as I haven’t been paying much attention to the mechanics.
The rest of the things are fairly subjective, but regarding the combat:

My main issue with it is that everything is so fine-grained that, like you say, decisions appear to be meaningless. That wouldn't be correct though. I'd say it's only meaningful if you play on the hardest difficulty - Path of the Damned.

The main design goals for the combat system have been, ironically, to make everything count, and yet every build to be viable.

Sawyer disliked how bonuses to attributes in D&D only come with every other point, so he split the bonuses in his game to be very small, but to come with every attribute point. Hence things like "+2% damage" for a point in Might.

Since everything is connected to everything, it becomes very difficult to identify what's a good setup of attributes or of equipment on your character. I tend to think that there is no single good setup for any character, but you have to adapt from battle to battle.

The system is in my opinion much more complex than D&D, and times are measured in seconds and 10ths of a second, which makes it harder, before you have a fair amount of experience, to tell what action will improve your situation in combat and what would not.

Combat used to be way worse at release, by now they've fixed a lot of problems with it, and there is the last big patch coming tomorrow.
 
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Severian Silk

Guest
- Combat is a change of pace from D&D, though I’m not sure if I like it yet. It feels...floaty? Like my build choices are inconsequential. Could be that I just don’t have a feel for the game’s build archetypes yet, though, as I haven’t been paying much attention to the mechanics.
I liked the story until the end when it got overly stupid/epic. But you're right about the combat. It's like you're wearing thick gloves and can't really feel what's in your hands.
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
Ya, its good. Don't come in expecting the perfect crpg (which nothing ever measures up to) and you won't be disappointed. Alot of folks approached the game looking for flaws and, surprise, they found them. If you approach the game looking for fun instead, you can find that as well.

The game is meant to be a bit more low key than the high fantasy of the BG series. I like that. If you want a bunch of in your face cliche fantasy, go for D:OS.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,563
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
The game is meant to be a bit more low key than the high fantasy of the BG series.

I don't recall this ever having been claimed elsewhere and I think it's a cop-out.

I've been through two attempts now to get through this game. During beta when we were restricted to fighting beetles and exploring one little town and its ruins, I thought we were in for something p. special. At launch, however, something just seemed wrong. The reality of the scope of the game and its story really sunk in, and by the time I reached Defiance Bay I was disgusted. Gave it up until about a week ago.

This go-around I made it to Twin Elms and that crushing despair set in again. It's like trying to force your way though a wall of gelatin just mustering up the desire to continue on. The lackluster atmosphere, the dull shine put on this game. It's too... safe. It's lifeless. It possesses no pizazz, no unique charm of its own.

And the idea that it was supposed to be more "low key" again is a preposterous one; as a spiritual successor to the BG and IWD games I expected more. Josh simply didn't deliver it. In many ways, with PoE, he fell flat on his face.
 

damager

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
377
Unnecessary complex combat and stat system was one of the points that killed the game the most for me. For example, you have deflection, fortitude, reflex and will saves and spells that lower or higher them for a certain amount, but you get no natural feel how +20 reflex will influence the outcome of your fight. It just didn't feel intuitive in any way. And while I was willing to learn stuff and get into it for systems like AD&D with a somewhat intuitive system and many modules and cRPG to choose from, I just wasn't willing to theory craft around in an over complex, counter-intuitive system like this for a single game.

Stuff like the web spell hit the nail in the coffin. While in BG my web spell would hinder the movement of my opponent completely or not, based on saving throws and I could just see the result on my screen, the web spell in PoE would give my opponent –20 Reflex –3 Move Speed –2 Dextery for the lot of 15 seconds and you cannot feel or see any effect. If I wouldn't read the combat log I wouldn't even recognize if my opponent made the saving throw. To find out if it helped my fight better than a simple fireball, I would need a fuckin calculator and 20 spreadsheets.
 
Last edited:

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,559
It is generic and uninspired in all aspects. I probably could've slogged through the whole thing if not for the encounter design... but my god at the fucking trash mobs.

Are there more companions like Durance?

Avellone was the writer for Durance and also the Grieving Mother. From what I've seen, most people on the Codex feel they are a cut above the rest of the companions.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
Durance never made sense to me, other than being a fantasy Rasputin. But I liked the Grieving Mother.
 
Self-Ejected

CptMace

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,278
Location
Die große Nation
Durance is actually the best companion in poe lore-wise.
He lets you know more about one god from the pantheon of PoE through his personal history, and not through bland info dump answer to an equally bland question like pretty much all the others.
 

Bonerbill

Augur
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
302
Location
North Carolina
Eder is the best companion in the game faggots.

But yeah, Durance is defintely the 2nd 3rd best, because Grieving Mother.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Unnecessary complex combat and stat system was one of the points that killed the game the most for me.

Hu? It's a good deal more consistent and easier to understand than any edition of D&D.

For example, you have deflection, fortitude, reflex and will saves and spells that lower or higher them for a certain amount, but you get no natural feel how +20 reflex will influence the outcome of your fight. It just didn't feel intuitive in any way. And while I was willing to learn stuff and get into it for systems like AD&D with a somewhat intuitive system and many modules and cRPG to choose from, I just wasn't willing to theory craft around in an over complex, counter-intuitive system like this for a single game.

Huh, "it's too complex and hard to learn" isn't a criticism I'd have expected to see here.

Stuff like the web spell hit the nail in the coffin. While in BG my web spell would hinder the movement of my opponent completely or not, based on saving throws and I could just see the result on my screen, the web spell in PoE would give my opponent –20 Reflex –3 Move Speed –2 Dextery for the lot of 15 seconds and you cannot feel or see any effect. If I wouldn't read the combat log I wouldn't even recognize if my opponent made the saving throw. To find out if it helped my fight better than a simple fireball, I would need a fuckin calculator and 20 spreadsheets.

The Web spell is broken. Apparently it's that way because they (stupidly) made it use the same code as a spider's web attack, and discovered that setting its accuracy to a reasonable level would make spiders murder melee-oriented parties dead too quickly. That's also why it's still broken -- they can't just rebalance it without breaking the spiders again, and apparently rewriting it is too much work.

But yeah, figuring out how to stack and combine bonuses is the key to having fun with Pillars. If you just want to select-all and auto-attack, then no, it won't work very well.

Lucky for you, 3.00 comes with Story Mode so you don't need to bother with any of that tedious shit.
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
The companions are enjoyable. Durance is awesome and the others are ok/good. The combat is good. The atmosphere is spot on. The world is well realized. The story is enjoyable too (unless you have ADHD and you need crazy Forgotten Realms crap to happen every couple hours - hey look, it's Drizzt! Hey look, it's Elminster! Pfft...)

If looking for flaws, then, yes, the impending madness could be communicated better, the world (especially the wilderness) could be more filled in, etc. But as a straight play experience (not one where you make a careful list of things "you can bitch about on the Codex"), the game is good.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
To me, the sign of a very good RPG is this: it gets better with every playthrough (until about the 4rth full playthrough, where it plateaus).

I am now in my 2nd playthrough (rogue/hard) and both combat and story are more enjoyable than in my 1st (cipher/normal). This is looking very promising.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,889
Ya, its good. Don't come in expecting the perfect crpg (which nothing ever measures up to) and you won't be disappointed. Alot of folks approached the game looking for flaws and, surprise, they found them. If you approach the game looking for fun instead, you can find that as well.

The game is meant to be a bit more low key than the high fantasy of the BG series. I like that. If you want a bunch of in your face cliche fantasy, go for D:OS.
This is especially hilarious advice for people like me to read that remember all the people that before release said things like "now that Obsidian is their own master, they got nobody holding them back" or "no producers to cut their content or force worse content".... hahahahhaa
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
Ya, its good. Don't come in expecting the perfect crpg (which nothing ever measures up to) and you won't be disappointed. Alot of folks approached the game looking for flaws and, surprise, they found them. If you approach the game looking for fun instead, you can find that as well.

The game is meant to be a bit more low key than the high fantasy of the BG series. I like that. If you want a bunch of in your face cliche fantasy, go for D:OS.
This is especially hilarious advice for people like me to read that remember all the people that before release said things like "now that Obsidian is their own master, they got nobody holding them back" or "no producers to cut their content or force worse content".... hahahahhaa
I dont see how anything I posted has anything to do with the ability of OE to work outside of the publisher model. Like many edgebaby posts, nothing you stated is actually relevant to posts you respond to. At a certain point, it's just folks cupping their ears and complaining to everyone.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
Somewhat related to the OP: is it worthwhile to replay this game now (on POD - my original playthrough was on Hard) with/without the expansion, or should I wait for a few weeks-months for balance patches and whatnot?
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Unnecessary complex combat and stat system was one of the points that killed the game the most for me.

Hu? It's a good deal more consistent and easier to understand than any edition of D&D.

For example, you have deflection, fortitude, reflex and will saves and spells that lower or higher them for a certain amount, but you get no natural feel how +20 reflex will influence the outcome of your fight. It just didn't feel intuitive in any way. And while I was willing to learn stuff and get into it for systems like AD&D with a somewhat intuitive system and many modules and cRPG to choose from, I just wasn't willing to theory craft around in an over complex, counter-intuitive system like this for a single game.

Huh, "it's too complex and hard to learn" isn't a criticism I'd have expected to see here.

Stuff like the web spell hit the nail in the coffin. While in BG my web spell would hinder the movement of my opponent completely or not, based on saving throws and I could just see the result on my screen, the web spell in PoE would give my opponent –20 Reflex –3 Move Speed –2 Dextery for the lot of 15 seconds and you cannot feel or see any effect. If I wouldn't read the combat log I wouldn't even recognize if my opponent made the saving throw. To find out if it helped my fight better than a simple fireball, I would need a fuckin calculator and 20 spreadsheets.

The Web spell is broken. Apparently it's that way because they (stupidly) made it use the same code as a spider's web attack, and discovered that setting its accuracy to a reasonable level would make spiders murder melee-oriented parties dead too quickly. That's also why it's still broken -- they can't just rebalance it without breaking the spiders again, and apparently rewriting it is too much work.

But yeah, figuring out how to stack and combine bonuses is the key to having fun with Pillars. If you just want to select-all and auto-attack, then no, it won't work very well.

Lucky for you, 3.00 comes with Story Mode so you don't need to bother with any of that tedious shit.

Combat is buggy - Therefore you're a disgusting pleb, go back to hamburger hepler mode.

See? I can over simplify an argument too!

:happytrollboy:
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Somewhat related to the OP: is it worthwhile to replay this game now (on POD - my original playthrough was on Hard) with/without the expansion, or should I wait for a few weeks-months for balance patches and whatnot?
Since replaying on PotD after palying on Hard is what I'm doing, I'd say yes. It's been largely rebalanced, and on PotD you should get a better balanced and more challenging game now than you had last spring.
 

Ovplain

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
1,890
Location
Down by the riverside
RPG Wokedex
I finally beat the game yesterday, sans White March. And I gotta say, it was great!:D I actually ended up really enjoying the story, loved the ending. Definitely worth playing! Though you gotta sorta meet it half way IMO. If you go in expecting/wanting to hate it, it's probably not gonna win you over.
 

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