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Thief VS Hitman

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
Key point: they approach bad "stealth-wise". Are they bad in and of themselves? I personally do not think so.
 

Gentle Player

Arcane
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Location
Britain
Blood Money doesn't have a single bad level (the tutorial doesn't count). Thief 1 and 2 have plenty between them

YOU'VE GONE - YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME, YOU CAMEL MANNERED TUNIC WEARING MOLLY CODDLE! AN ARROW IN THE THROAT OUGHT TO SHUT YOU UP!
 

Kontra

Educated
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
153
There's no written rule that puzzles are puzzles only when they have one solution.

But isnt it like that? When i was a kid i had a puzzle box and the point was to assemble all the pieces from the box so youd get a picture of some animals in a forest or something. And you couldnt put them how you like it, every piece had to go to its own place and no other. Thats a puzzle. Or like when people say "a piece of the puzzle"... You put the piece in its only proper place and you solved the puzzle. But in Hitman, killing a guy is just an objective, not a puzzle... The "gameplay" is totally different.

But itt doesnt matter really, i just hate calling them like that...

I've even seen retards post about the crypt stage being scary which is laughable.

Maybe how the haunts look like is laughable but how they sound sure isnt... Really the sound is half of why its scary. Also dont forget all the buildup that led up to those missions. I suggest you play them again friend and this time turn on the volume...

Thief2 is the better game, it clearly is if only for the fact that it allowed the devs greater room to do what they wanted and not forced in the monsters and shit they were asked to.

But its the other way around man... In T1 they did exactly what they wanted - they made a stealth game with a wide variety of enemies to sneak past by, but in T2 the fans cut their balls off and made them throw out everything except the guards. Because they didnt get that you can sneak past the scary monsters.

Blood Money doesn't have a single bad level (the tutorial doesn't count).

What about the last one in the White House? That sucked. It was linear shit and it had you saving the president... Thats the only thing worse than saving the world. Why would 47 or me give a fuck about the president. Man the level is so lame i always skip it. Theres just Dance with the Devil, shift+c and the cool outro song... No White House bullshit. Hitman doesnt work if its a real world location and they shouldve known that.


Is there any good Hitman's mods? specially regarding saves.

You should be happy to know that im working on a Blood Money mod right now, and its gonna kick yo ass!!:eek::eek::eek: Actually im just hex editing some files... But, it should fix at least some of the games broken shit.
 

A user named cat

Guest
Posted this recently but T2 also had wonderful little moments like this:

Loved that one too. IIRC, you could bow one of them and they'd mistake it as an attack by the other and not you.
Haha really? I'll have to try that out sometime since I kept my saves backed up, sounds hilarious. Love the voice actors for the guards, if only they had recorded more banter.
I've even seen retards post about the crypt stage being scary which is laughable.

Maybe how the haunts look like is laughable but how they sound sure isnt... Really the sound is half of why its scary. Also dont forget all the buildup that led up to those missions. I suggest you play them again friend and this time turn on the volume...
Played both Thief games with the latest patches including the 5.1 surround mods even at night time. Still found nothing remotely frightening about any levels in either Thief game. Especially compared to the likes of Silent Hill, Scratches, Amnesia + mods and such.
 

Kontra

Educated
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
153
That's great.


Well you dont have to wait up for me. You can do it yourself. You wouldnt like how i set it up anyway.
Heres how to:

In the games directory find the Scenes folder, open the HitmanBloodMoney.zip file and extract these three xml files:

-difficultysettings.xml
-money.xml
-notoriety.xml

Open them with some hex editor and change whatever you like. Most of it works but some doesnt. Like lockpicking speed, no matter what multiplier value i set 47 still opens the doors in a second or two. The money you get for the missions also cant be changed but the equipement prices can, so you can rack em up... I recommend getting the game to be as hard as possible but thats just me.

After you finished you need to put the files inside every single missions main.rar file. Its a pain in the ass but thats how you gotta do it.

Anyway heres an exact instruction, its where i found out about this. Some xbox console site

http://www.xpgamesaves.com/topic/48368-tut-how-to-iso-mod-hitman-blood-money/

I like the changes he made... " 999 health, reduced suspicion, millions of dollars, the ability to waggle guns right in peoples faces and a lot more."
Because thats exactly what this game needs. Goddamnit... This is what killed the Hitman series. If it had a more serious fanbase and some actual modding community then maybe IO wouldve thought twice before "experimenting" with Absolution...
 

Axe Father

Savant
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
102
Hitman BM is an overall better game than Thief.
I disagree, but taste is a curious thing.

Stealth mechanics are better in Thief.
Suddenly talking a lot of sense here, mate.

And 47 is much cooler than Garrett.
SUCH SLANDER WILL NOT BE TOLERATED WHILE WE'RE ON WATCH

But in seriousness. I enjoy Hitman but Agent 47 is the worst part about the games for me. He's a hulking bald tosser with the face of a moai that is easily the most conspicuous thing in any room he walks into, but we're expected to believe he's a master of disguise that eases through crowded rooms unnoticed. To be fair, I can't really think of a better character for this type of game, I just don't like how he's a MASTER ASSASSIN TRAINED FROM A YOUNG AGE TO BE SKILLED WITH EVERY WEAPON AND FIGHTING STYLE UNDER THE SUN ALSO DID WE MENTION HE'S A GENETICALLY ENGINEERED CLONE BUT HE'S TOTALLY GOT A SENSE OF MORALITY TOO WHAT A HERO.
 

Kontra

Educated
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
153
Played both Thief games with the latest patches including the 5.1 surround mods even at night time. Still found nothing remotely frightening about any levels in either Thief game. Especially compared to the likes of Silent Hill, Scratches, Dark Amnesia + mods and such.

Nothing remotely frightening... Well then maybe youre some kinda psycho?? I mean what are you doing in my closet?

Dark Amnesia... Dont you mean Amnesia the Dark Descent? If so, well that wasnt scary at all. I didnt even finish it because of how boring it was.
Scratches a puzzle game, scarier than Thief Cathedral missions... I kinda doubt that Jose.
Havent played Silent Hill but its japanese so its bound to be more disturbing than scary.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
But in seriousness. I enjoy Hitman but Agent 47 is the worst part about the games for me. He's a hulking bald tosser with the face of a moai that is easily the most conspicuous thing in any room he walks into, but we're expected to believe he's a master of disguise that eases through crowded rooms unnoticed.
yah mang, I'd rather play a normal average dued liek in CoD or whatever the fuck, John Johnovich Johnson with a buzz cut would be the best.
Also reatard detected cuz 47 has no sense of morality unless you only played the gayass Absolution.
MASTER ASSASSIN TRAINED FROM A YOUNG AGE TO BE SKILLED WITH EVERY WEAPON AND FIGHTING STYLE UNDER THE SUN ALSO DID WE MENTION HE'S A GENETICALLY ENGINEERED CLONE BUT HE'S TOTALLY GOT A SENSE OF MORALITY TOO WHAT A HERO.
Again, raterd detected cuz it used to be pretty subtle until Assholition.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,308
Havent played Silent Hill but its japanese so its bound to be more disturbing than scary.

Oh it's fucking both. I've never to this day encountered games with atmosphere as strong as first two Silent Hills. Yep, not even Thiefs, though they have superb atmosphere as well.

As far as Thief 1 vs 2.. I prefer the first one, even though when I was making my first run through it I expected to enjoy the second one more from everything I've read about it. Thing is, levels that stray away from things that most consider to be the core aspect of the series also bring some variety to it. Thief 2 is a great game but by the end of it I was getting really burnt out of sneaking past same shit over and over. Fucking robots in particular got tiring and Karras voice everywhere got pretty old too. Hence Thief 1 is much easier to replay for me.
 
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Kontra

Educated
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
153
Oh it's fucking both. I've never to this days encountered games with atmosphere as strong as first two Silent Hills. Yep, not even Thiefs, though have superb atmosphere as well.

Alright, i might try them... But im not a big fan of the whole "psychological" horror approach.
Do you have guns in these games? I mean can you defend yourself in some way or do you just run away. Cause i hate that... Its cheap.


As for why nobody notices 47.

I dont know if you know this but, according to secret files that you can find in C47(on last level), the whole clone assassins project was a continuation of the old 1960s MK Ultra mind control program. Apparently, 47 possesses a limited ability to psychically manipulate the blind spot of the human eye, rendering him almost invisible for short periods of time... This, and his superior training is what makes him the best at what he does. Also its implied that he was castrated at a young age which might explain his complete and undivided dedication to his work...
 

Axe Father

Savant
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
102
yah mang, I'd rather play a normal average dued liek in CoD or whatever the fuck, John Johnson with a buzz cut would be the best.
Also reatard detected cuz 47 has no sense of morality unless you only played the gayass Absolution.
Again, raterd detected cuz it used to be pretty subtle until Assholition.

Nah man, you're right that it was mostly subtle in the non-shit games. As I said in my post, I can't really imagine a better character for this type of game, so I'm just taking the piss 'cos I think it's hilarious to imagine a jacked bald man over six feet tall strolling around in a clown getup and no one even turns their heads.

As for why nobody notices 47.

I dont know if you know this but, according to secret files that you can find in C47(on last level), the whole clone assassins project was a continuation of the old 1960s MK Ultra mind control program. Apparently, 47 possesses a limited ability to psychically manipulate the blind spot of the human eye, rendering him almost invisible for short periods of time... This, and his superior training is what makes him the best at what he does. Also its implied that he was castrated at a young age which might explain his complete and undivided dedication to his work...

Haha, this is the kind of funny shit I'm talking about. Imagine this guy with no balls creeping around your house in a clown suit but no one but you notices 'cos he's doing some psychic voodoo to render himself invisible. It's just funny when you think about it is all. Doesn't mean I want to see him replaced with some shitty CoD character.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,308
Oh it's fucking both. I've never to this days encountered games with atmosphere as strong as first two Silent Hills. Yep, not even Thiefs, though have superb atmosphere as well.

Alright, i might try them... But im not a big fan of the whole "psychological" horror approach.
Do you have guns in these games? I mean can you defend yourself in some way or do you just run away. Cause i hate that... Its cheap.

You have guns. Need to conserve ammo though so you might occasionally want to avoid some enemies. You have melee weapons too.
 

A user named cat

Guest
Havent played Silent Hill but its japanese so its bound to be more disturbing than scary.
Thief 2 is a great game but by the end of it I was getting really burnt out of sneaking past same shit over and over. Fucking robots in particular got tiring and Karras voice everywhere got pretty old too. Hence Thief 1 is much easier to replay for me.
That was one thing that drove me up the wall about T2. Those tiresome Karras trollbots who repeated the voice recordings ad nauseum. I can't imagine ever replaying the game because of some of those maps where they were in a huge abundance. Disabling them could be a nightmare too especially when you're low on water arrows.

Played both Thief games with the latest patches including the 5.1 surround mods even at night time. Still found nothing remotely frightening about any levels in either Thief game. Especially compared to the likes of Silent Hill, Scratches, Dark Amnesia + mods and such.

Nothing remotely frightening... Well then maybe youre some kinda psycho?? I mean what are you doing in my closet?

Dark Amnesia... Dont you mean Amnesia the Dark Descent? If so, well that wasnt scary at all. I didnt even finish it because of how boring it was.
Scratches a puzzle game, scarier than Thief Cathedral missions... I kinda doubt that Jose.
Havent played Silent Hill but its japanese so its bound to be more disturbing than scary.
Yeah I meant Amnesia: DD, my fault. I tend to mix up games with generic titles. Vanilla DA may not have been much, but there were some great mods that certainly were unsettling. Necrologue comes to mind:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/346290/

If you're going to play SH, I'd recommend 1-3. Skip the rest, they're terrible. Surprised to come across someone who has never tried any of them though, you're in store for some tremendous music and audio work if that's your thing, and a lot of creepy monsters. SH1 you'll have to play on a console or emulator. SH2 and 3 however have PC ports, and there are patches available that fix them up and allow widescreen. Sorry to link to shithole forums but they're useful once in a while, here you'll find the links and guides.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488899
 

Vibalist

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
3,583
Location
Denmark
Also reatard detected cuz 47 has no sense of morality unless you only played the gayass Absolution.

47 definitely had a sense of morality in Silent Assassin, seeing as the whole game was about saving an old priest whom he had befriended. The abduction of Vittorio is more or less the only reason 47 goes back to being a contract killer.

I don't know about Contracts, but my impression is that it's really only in Blood Money that he becomes completely cold.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
Also reatard detected cuz 47 has no sense of morality unless you only played the gayass Absolution.

47 definitely had a sense of morality in Silent Assassin, seeing as the whole game was about saving an old priest whom he had befriended. The abduction of Vittorio is more or less the only reason 47 goes back to being a contract killer.

I don't know about Contracts, but my impression is that it's really only in Blood Money that he becomes completely cold.
I never thought about that as morality. More like he finally made a friend. Also at the end he realized that fuck it, I never belonged in this world, I'll choose the truth I like. It seemed to me he basically realized it was all a big mistake. I guess he donated his money to the church but how is that moral anyway.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Blood Money doesn't have a single bad level (the tutorial doesn't count). Thief 1 and 2 have plenty between them

YOU'VE GONE - YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME, YOU CAMEL MANNERED TUNIC WEARING MOLLY CODDLE! AN ARROW IN THE THROAT OUGHT TO SHUT YOU UP!
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/thief-gold.58369/page-3#post-2809424 http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-topic-for-a-thread.85660/page-5#post-2854090

What about the last one in the White House? That sucked. It was linear shit and it had you saving the president... Thats the only thing worse than saving the world. Why would 47 or me give a fuck about the president. Man the level is so lame i always skip it. Theres just Dance with the Devil, shift+c and the cool outro song... No White House bullshit. Hitman doesnt work if its a real world location and they shouldve known that.

The White House level is fine. It's not linear, there are multiple approaches through it (you can even take out the albino guy with a bomb through the wall to avoid the chase and shoot-out). You're being paid to stop them.
 

Kontra

Educated
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
153
If you're going to play SH, I'd recommend 1-3. Skip the rest, they're terrible. Surprised to come across someone who has never tried any of them though

I tried to set up the first or the second one (cant remember) awhile ago and failed... But all right when im in the mood ill try it again. Thanks for the links man.

47 definitely had a sense of morality in Silent Assassin, seeing as the whole game was about saving an old priest whom he had befriended.

Yeah thats the one thing i dislike about Silent Assassin, they humanized him too much. The whole saving the priest business. 47 is an assassin, not a rescue team...:)


The White House level is fine. It's not linear, there are multiple approaches through it (you can even take out the albino guy with a bomb through the wall to avoid the chase and shoot-out). You're being paid to stop them.

Its linear... Theres even a locked noninteractive door in the first hallway thats supposed to lead to the rest of the level... But you cant even click on it. Instead you just have to take the roof, wheter you like it or not cause the only way in. Its like they didnt even finish the map.

Just admit it man. It sucks. Its okay not every level has to be perfect. And, its tradition for every Hitman game to have at least one shitty level. Tradition... hmmm.
 

Vibalist

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
3,583
Location
Denmark
The general quality of Blood Money's levels is outstanding, though. People have to admit this. Sure, the last two levels were not that great, they had scripted sequences that lend themselves really poorly to this genre, but I don't think I can recall any game (aside from maybe the first DX) where the levels are as consistently great. From a level design point of view, BM deserves to be held up as a shining example of how to get it right. It is such an underrated gem (not here, but in 'mainstream' gaming culture).
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Its linear... Theres even a locked noninteractive door in the first hallway thats supposed to lead to the rest of the level... But you cant even click on it. Instead you just have to take the roof, wheter you like it or not cause the only way in. Its like they didnt even finish the map.

Just admit it man. It sucks. Its okay not every level has to be perfect. And, its tradition for every Hitman game to have at least one shitty level. Tradition... hmmm.

I don't remember what you're referring to, so it's likely not a big deal. The point is that there are multiple things you can do to get inside and multiple ways of taking out your targets.
 

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