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Rolling Vs Point-Buying

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
As you all know ToEE supports both systems and therein lies the problem. I rolled several characters and got very good stats (18, 16, 16, 14, 12, 10) in about 10-15 rolls. Somehow it felt like cheating, so I used PB system to make my party. In comparison, I got 16, 10, 14, 13, 10, 8 which is kinda like playing Fallout without Gifted: you feel right for not exploiting the perk, but wonder if you missed out on something because your stats weren't high enough. Any opinions and personal experiences?
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
I rolled. For my characters, I rolled as low as 8 to as high as 18 (only once). Even though I hate to do it, I rerolled a total of five teams for the entire party combined - twice beacuse the stats were all below 6; and three times because I was getting ridiculous high scores like one time with three 18s, a 16, and 2 15s. That just felt wrong and I didn't want no super character as it didn'y fit with my idea for said character. And, oh by the way, just to let you know you can "cheat" the reroll counter simply by exiting the character you are in the process of creating. Heh. I feel ashamed for knowing that.
 

ecliptic

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 11, 2003
Messages
915
I hate when I stumble across something like that, hopefully they'll patch it.

For example, I loved torment, but at one point I could talk to a guy over and over, and I'd get some ridiculously large quest completion bonus every time I did it.

It took a lot of restraint to only talk to him three times and then move on.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
It was like 300,000 xp per conversation. Needless to say, my character couldn't get enough of that story and could listen to it all day long. :lol: I was weak then, but then again it was 300K nice and easy vs hard work of killing tons of stuff at 3-8k a piece.
 

protobob

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
332
Location
USA
Heh, I rerolled a bunch.

I figure I'll play a second time through in Ironman (which must be hard as hell), and I'll probably have suck ass stats when I do that.

Fun game.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
It is funny when people are constantly re-roling until they get near perfect stats. What would they say if the game would start with a default character with all 18s? They would probably complain about it, despite that that is what they want.

Rolling is only a good system if you have the balls to stick to the results.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,404
Location
Djibouti
It is funny when people are constantly re-roling until they get near perfect stats. What would they say if the game would start with a default character with all 18s?

'hey, this is just like eye of the beholder, 10/10'
 

Incantatar

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
453
It is funny when people are constantly re-roling until they get near perfect stats. What would they say if the game would start with a default character with all 18s? They would probably complain about it, despite that that is what they want.

Rolling is only a good system if you have the balls to stick to the results.
Rolling makes a character more unique. I like playing with stats that aren't rerolled and i like playing with stats that are rerolled 200 times when i challenge myself in some other way, like noreload/ironman. You probably loose the character anyway, might as well give him a better chance. The option to do both is great. Point buy doesn't feel right. It's not dynamic enough.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
Patron
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
Location
DiNMRK
Rolling works in pen and paper, where your group will slap you if you try to reroll and the DM can adjust difficulty to account for shitty characters. On the computer, point buy usually delivers a more interesting experience.
 

Aothan

Magister
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,742
I'd like a compromise where a series of rolls can be set aside and then applied to characters of choice

edit: also, is there a general ToEE discussion thread nearby, in a forum or should a more recent one be used..I've been meaning to discuss feat choices for characters and if there are any viable alternatives
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,104
I have no problem with the game deciding to fuck me over with poor rolls. And like Incantatar says it usually results in plain fun characters you have to jury rig to work.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
Rolling is fun in pnp because it gives your character real weakness that you have to adapt and compensate. Rolled characters generally have more personality.

On CRPG point-buy is better. I mean are you gonna balance the game for average roll or average CRPG player that will reroll until they get awesome stats? With point-buy you know what power level to expect.
 

No Great Name

Arcane
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
572
Location
US
I like how the early Might and Magic games (havent played the later ones yet) do it where you roll for your stats, then allows you swap the results between stats.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
Rolling in both and magical items and consumables should set stats to a certain point, instead of straight up increases. Its simply more fun, and your rolls dont automatically mean a permanent advantage/disadvantage, gameplay changing and evolving is a lot of fun.
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
I like rolling even if it abused. Point buy means there will always be an optimal distribution for each character class which is irritating.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
It's still better than reroll like mad, then realize that might as well hexedit it to 18 all and be done with it~

If you dont want same-same point spread, giving more diversified perks/equipment with different requirement will create different builds.
 

Monkeyfinger

Cipher
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
778
I like rolling even if it abused. Point buy means there will always be an optimal distribution for each character class which is irritating.

Puzzling out the optimal build is part of the fun if you're not a look-everything-up-online type of player.
 

Derper

Prophet
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,144
Location
Aaaargh
It was like 300,000 xp per conversation. Needless to say, my character couldn't get enough of that story and could listen to it all day long. :lol: I was weak then, but then again it was 300K nice and easy vs hard work of killing tons of stuff at 3-8k a piece.

Grinding in PS:T?
:0-13:
 

oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
It's still better than reroll like mad, then realize that might as well hexedit it to 18 all and be done with it~

Yeah I could use Gatekeeper to bump up all the stats but what fun is that. I would rather roll 90 on my 15th 20th 25th attempt and feel like a god.
 

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