Game News Torment: Tides of Numenera announced for PS4 and Xbox One, gets new trailer

[Grunker]

Why is the MAIN point of contention always inventory systems then? I own a controller for PC. I play Dark Souls etc. with it. The main difference between consoles RPGs and PC-RPGs are shit menus. Witcher, Dark Souls, new shop in WL2, the examples are many.

Inventory systems? You said "menus" so I thought you were talking about dialogue menus.

Inventory
A menu or area of the screen where items collected by the player during the game are stored. This interface allows the player to retrieve any item to use it as an instant effect, or to equip the player character with the item.

Anyway, I think it's downright obvious that a sufficiently complex PC-centric game would take advantage of the easiness of point-and-click in its menus and interaction, and thinking a console port is easy peasy is downright naive.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

That was horrid, which is the point

It wasn't even released.

But I was wondering when some dumb clueless teenager fanboy would mention it and feel smug about it like the retard that he is.

Imagine if it were not only released, but the PC version were designed along side it and downgraded so that they looked/feeled close to the same.

That's the world we've been living in for some time now.

But it is what it is and it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. Meh.

 

[Infinitron]

Anyway, I think it's downright obvious that a sufficiently complex PC-centric game would take advantage of the easiness of point-and-click in its menus and interaction, and thinking a console port is easy peasy is downright naive.

Sure, maybe. The thing is, I don't think Torment: Tides of Numenera is actually "sufficiently complex"! Nor was it ever meant to be. It's fundamentally a more limited game than D:OS or even Wasteland in terms of the way you interact with the world. It's closer to the Shadowrun games in that respect - everything is either scripted turn-based combat sequences or dialogue (although I guess it has more in the way of inventory).

 

[Machine]

game looks like dogshit tho

props to Fargo for ripping off nostalgiacucks with all these trash remakes tho

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

My neutral-positive review is ready:

 

[a mod]

It was never meant to be blah blah...exactly. It was consolized from the start.

 

[Daedalos]

This thread delivers.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Sure, maybe. The thing is, I don't think Torment: Tides of Numenera is actually "sufficiently complex"! Nor was it ever meant to be. It's fundamentally a more limited game than D:OS or even Wasteland in terms of the way you interact with the world.

Maybe - I haven't played the beta. But it didn't have to be like that. When they decided on TB combat they basically broke any links to the IE games. The only thing remaining was the theme or tone of Torment. There's nothing fundamental about having a story-heavy game that limits complexity or interactivity. Increased interaction and more complex mechanics would add depth and shouldn't take away from the story or text, so why is it so (relatively) simple? Lack of ambition, lack of necessity, or a conscious desire to keep their options open and appeal to a wider group of players.

If it really turns out to be a plot heavy Shadowrun then it'll be a huge opportunity wasted.

God, I sound paranoid.

 

[vortex]

Sure, maybe. The thing is, I don't think Torment: Tides of Numenera is actually "sufficiently complex"! Nor was it ever meant to be. It's fundamentally a more limited game than D:OS or even Wasteland in terms of the way you interact with the world.

What do you mean with "sufficiently complex" phrase? Should Torment: Tides of Numenera deliver point'n'click adventure aspects of solving puzzles and quests ?
Or/and complex heavy combat system?

If it really turns out to be a plot heavy Shadowrun then it'll be a huge opportunity wasted.

I like slow-burn of Shadowrun but I don't think majority of the players (non-backers) would like similar slower paced gameplay. Now that it will hit consoles, pacing should be adressed for that aspect. But, without neglecting core RPG rules. It not an easy task.

 

[Lady_Error]

Sure, maybe. The thing is, I don't think Torment: Tides of Numenera is actually "sufficiently complex"! Nor was it ever meant to be. It's fundamentally a more limited game than D:OS or even Wasteland in terms of the way you interact with the world.

Maybe - I haven't played the beta. But it didn't have to be like that. When they decided on TB combat they basically broke any links to the IE games. The only thing remaining was the theme or tone of Torment. There's nothing fundamental about having a story-heavy game that limits complexity or interactivity. Increased interaction and more complex mechanics would add depth and shouldn't take away from the story or text, so why is it so (relatively) simple? Lack of ambition, lack of necessity, or a conscious desire to keep their options open and appeal to a wider group of players.

If it really turns out to be a plot heavy Shadowrun then it'll be a huge opportunity wasted.

God, I sound paranoid.

I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about. Other than TB combat and new setting, did anything else change compared to PST? In what ways is it more limited than PST?

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about. Other than TB combat and new setting, did anything else change compared to PST? In what ways is it more limited than PST?

Not compared to PST, but compared to the initial pitch and the potential of having a PC-focussed TB game. It's mostly just reading between the lines of the latest console announcement with very little facts and a lot of pent-up frustration and suspicion.

I haven't played the beta but I presume Grunker has to some extent so I'm just filling in until he gets back.

 

[Lurker King]

I actually liked Mass Effect 2 a lot.

 

[Lurker King]

I don't think he truly understood his grognardly audience and how important his pitches were to those who had got used to Bethesoware as the new RPG standard.

Man, don’t you get it? He doesn’t care about grognards. In fact, he doesn’t care about cRPGs at all. He only cares about our wallets. We are talking about InXile, the same company that until a few years ago was making mobile games. That talk about ignorant publishers was just a pitch carefully designed to suck money from a nostalgic audience. All these minutiae involving the risks of porting to consoles are beside the point. This is an issue of principle: they were funded by PC users with a promise that they invest all their resources on a PC game, but that was a lie. They were catering to console peasants all along. Players who can’t even pronounce Planescape will make complaints, demand modifications and a bunch of other stuff. This ruined everything. This is PoE all over again. A small size of backers will be furious, and the majority will not understand what the issue is because their views are completely dissociated from reality.

To my surprise I'm actually starting to look forward to BT4 more than Torment. I was never a fan of the BT blobbers so I have no expectations other than for a bit of fun.

Let’s see, a game that was cashing in on blobbers nostalgia but that reveals a huge effort to become another triple-A game with pretty graphics and skill trees. If anything, BT4 only suggests that you have more reasons to become pessimist.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Let’s see, a game that was cashing in on blobbers nostalgia but that reveals a huge effort to become another triple-A game with pretty graphics and skill trees. If anything, BT4 only suggests that you have more reasons to become pessimist.

I'm still waiting for Grimoire - everything is relative.

 

[Lurker King]

I actually liked Mass Effect 2 a lot.

 

[Fenix]

Dat ass... very RPG-like.

 

[FeelTheRads]

If that ass was on screen at all times I might consider playing it.

 

[MRY]

Even if videogames were exactly the same as they were well over two decades ago, how many of those were simultaneous release, or hell, even done by the same developers?

Nah, I was making two different points (not clearly). One is that I thought, as a historical matter, it is interesting how ubiquitous console ports were during the classic era of RPGs. You're right that they weren't simultaneous, of course. I wasn't raising that fact for persuasive effect so much as because it seemed like a curiosity that was being somewhat overlooked.

My other point was that I think that there are consistent pressures that affect developers (RPG developers in this case) -- the desire for access to a bigger market, the desire for mainstream recognition (not necessarily related -- some games that get heavy coverage in mainstream press are actually not great sellers), the desire to make more immersive games, the desire to one-up prior projects in terms of presentations, etc. All of those desires were wildly fulfilled for Bioware when they developed console games (to the detriment of a segment of Bioware's fanbase, of course), and a degree for Bethesda and CD Projekt as well. This doesn't mean that the draw of consoles shouldn't worry you. It's more just to say that I don't think there's anything nefarious or surprising about it. It is the rare developer who says, "I am content. I don't want more [critical attention/cultural impact/variety]." It's like people wondering, "Why would Broken Age end up a cartoon with a famous cast of voice actors?" or "Why would the King's Quest remake be a knock off TellTale title?" or "Why is WEG simplifying puzzles?" It's not even as crass as wanting more money.

 

[DosBuster]

I don't think he truly understood his grognardly audience and how important his pitches were to those who had got used to Bethesoware as the new RPG standard.

Man, don’t you get it? He doesn’t care about grognards. In fact, he doesn’t care about cRPGs at all. He only cares about our wallets. We are talking about InXile, the same company that until a few years ago was making mobile games. That talk about ignorant publishers was just a pitch carefully designed to suck money from a nostalgic audience. All these minutiae involving the risks of porting to consoles are beside the point. This is an issue of principle: they were funded by PC users with a promise that they invest all their resources on a PC game, but that was a lie. They were catering to console peasants all along. Players who can’t even pronounce Planescape will make complaints, demand modifications and a bunch of other stuff. This ruined everything. This is PoE all over again. A small size of backers will be furious, and the majority will not understand what the issue is because their views are completely dissociated from reality.

I think your views are the ones completely dissociated here, InXile making shitty mobile games was their attempt to stay alive while trying to get Hei$t finished and Wasteland 2 signed to a publisher. In terms of the original kickstarter, next-gen consoles had yet to even be released or announced. How can you plan for something that doesn't exist? At the end of the day though, this is a goddamn business. If you can't realize that when you put your money down for kickstarter--remember that is not pre-ordering, it is investing--you shouldn't of put your money down and instead have waited for a final product with a clearer vision. Finally, your qualms about console users are hilariously off the mark, while consoles have problems you don't see the players of Uncharted 4 begging for mods.

 

[Morality Games]

this is a goddamn business.

This entire way of thinking is based in the same assumption as that banks have a natural right and (really) an automatic moral imperative to deceive people into accepting bad loans and that all the responsibility is on the person who accepts the loan to be informed, when due to the nature of reality they don't have the time or resources to be as informed as an entire staff of banking lawyers and accountants that the bank keeps on retainer. Or that kings have an automatic right to rules society autocratically and peasants who rebel need to be torn to pieces.

It's just a highway to nihilism, and it makes it seem that companies that adhere to a stronger code of ethics are in the wrong for doing so.

 

[Excidium II]

Finally, your qualms about console users are hilariously off the mark, while consoles have problems you don't see the players of Uncharted 4 begging for mods.

Bethesda

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

My other point was that I think that there are consistent pressures that affect developers (RPG developers in this case) -- the desire for access to a bigger market, the desire for mainstream recognition (not necessarily related -- some games that get heavy coverage in mainstream press are actually not great sellers), the desire to make more immersive games, the desire to one-up prior projects in terms of presentations, etc. All of those desires were wildly fulfilled for Bioware when they developed console games (to the detriment of a segment of Bioware's fanbase, of course), and a degree for Bethesda and CD Projekt as well. This doesn't mean that the draw of consoles shouldn't worry you. It's more just to say that I don't think there's anything nefarious or surprising about it. It is the rare developer who says, "I am content. I don't want more [critical attention/cultural impact/variety]." It's like people wondering, "Why would Broken Age end up a cartoon with a famous cast of voice actors?" or "Why would the King's Quest remake be a knock off TellTale title?" or "Why is WEG simplifying puzzles?" It's not even as crass as wanting more money.

I think everyone understands these desires for a bigger audience and more money, and most here watched the resulting decline take place. Then along came a bunch of crowdfunding campaigns appealing to nostalgia and promising to "make those types of games again", and people chipped in money for the promised niche products catering to their preferences. Now after many years of delays, staff changes and vague hints of lots of content being cut we get the good news of a simultaneous multi-platform release which "won't affect the delivery date or the game in any way". Which given the history of the industry is hard to believe, particularly after all the promises to focus only on pc.

Anyway, given the tougher environment on KS it seems people are learning to be more cynical about dev promises and a lot of people now wait to see the final product. Sad in a way, but on the other hand despite all the idealistic chat in the past from people like Fargo about partnering with customers to produce something the publishers wouldn't fund, it seems it is a "goddam business" after all, in which case as a customer it's best not to put up money on the basis of hopes and promises.

 

[---]

Finally, your qualms about console users are hilariously off the mark, while consoles have problems you don't see the players of Uncharted 4 begging for mods.

Bethesda

Sooo, at the end, Bethesda experiment with F4 mods on consoles succeeded?

 

[ArchAngel]

It would be much worse if we didn't have games like Copper Dreams, No Truce with Furies or Battletech coming out "soon"
(And others)
Good/Inovative games from small teams are now being made which was not happening pre Kickstarter (with exception of HBS that are not small anymore)

 

[---]

It would be much worse if we didn't have games like Copper Dreams, No Truce with Furies or Battletech coming out "soon"
(And others)
Good/Inovative games from small teams are now being made which was not happening pre Kickstarter (with exception of HBS that are not small anymore)

Exactly. It's plenty of good Kickstarter niche games (I don't consider D:OS, Inxile's games or Pillars of Eternity sooo "niche", they are relatively popular), even among other genres (platforms and metroidvanias, for example), which simply wouldn't be possible without crowdfunding.