Unhealthy interest in sales figures

[Vault Dweller]

On all platforms:

AoD: 66,228
DR: 8,924

 

[t]

On all platforms:

AoD: 66,228
DR: 8,924

Disregarding all other factors, is 9k copies of DR enough to pay for 6ish months of your studios work? I know you probably can't give us exact figures, but it would be great to know ballpark figures of your monthly burn rate.

 

[Whisper]

Would be there more updates for DR? And what you plan to change/add

 

[Vault Dweller]

On all platforms:

AoD: 66,228
DR: 8,924

Disregarding all other factors, is 9k copies of DR enough to pay for 6ish months of your studios work? I know you probably can't give us exact figures, but it would be great to know ballpark figures of your monthly burn rate.

It's a bit more complicated.

First, it's 10 months of work plus 2 months of post-release support, so a year of work overall. Second, the game's been only out for a month, so it's too early to say. Third, we gained some party-related code and experience, which isn't nothing (I mean we would have had to do it sooner or later and DR gave us a good early start). Fourth, we don't really have a monthly burn rate as that's not how we operate (as the burn rate dependency is usually fatal for small businesses).

Would be there more updates for DR? And what you plan to change/add

I would like to release 4 more updates assuming the game keeps selling. I have a very interesting idea (in my opinion) for the updates but I don't want to say anything before we commit to it.

 

[Whisper]

I would like to release 4 more updates assuming the game keeps selling. I have a very interesting idea (in my opinion) for the updates but I don't want to say anything before we commit to it.

I did 8 runs, i must say game is very balanced. You can get with any weapon. You can get with any skill or without. Only requirement is 1 attack skill and 1 defence skill (block being worse at start and better at end).
You can make without alchemy or crafting or even both.
Except few things (4 dex not workable for solo run, at least 2 craft is needed for throwing solo run) game is very optimised for different character builds. Talking about solo.


Hoping for new updates

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks, Whisper.

 

[t]

Fourth, we don't really have a monthly burn rate as that's not how we operate (as the burn rate dependency is usually fatal for small businesses).

I understand all of the other points and was aware of them. But this? Does it mean you don't have salaries?

 

[Vault Dweller]

For small indie studios, salaries are the fastest and easiest way to go out of business.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Wait, so how the bros at ITS feed their families?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Shares and payments.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

What are the differences? I mean, the money is still used up.

 

[HoboForEternity]

but they aren't really bleeding constantly every payday. like one get paid for every commission, and when the game released, and sells well, each receive pay according to their shares. just a wild guess.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Salaries work when you have a proper budget (aka financial certainty), i.e. development money provided in advance by a third party (a traditional publisher-developer model). We don't have that as we still count on future AoD/DR sales, which is different from month to month (Nov-Dec are great, Jan-Feb are dead months, etc) and we have no idea how well the games would sell in 2017.

 

[Aenra]

Are you guys satisfied with the sales of DR thus far?
To answer the obvious question, no, i cannot judge those numbers by myself. I don't really follow social media, sure don't have any 'gaming' friends, so got no clue as to how to weigh things: namely what DR is versus how much one could expect it to sell.

And second question (lol). I remember your posting something about a six month trial and error period, for the engine shift. Has that begun? And if so, how's it going?

 

[Sitra Achara]

I sperged out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QNtyi939RU6ZyRw99qhmbaNwsQ_nZZSffxQ5JRs_Jgg/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to update this directly VD.

 

[MRY]

I realize that AOD represents exactly the kind of economy that can't scale up, but every time I see that it's made well over a million bucks, I'm struck by the sense that it really isn't impossible for a developer to make money off non-cinematic RPGs.

 

[Stakhanov]

Primordia RPG confirmed.

 

[MRY]

Ha, Fallen Gods is the RPG we're working on. But (1) I expect to lose money on it and (2) it is in many ways the anti-AOD since it basically has no world-state reactivity, very simple combat and itemization, and no character creation.

 

[Stakhanov]

MRY Only a joke [which betrays deep longing] of course . In any case I educated myself and watched the trailer, and I get the feeling it will be a D1P, loved the tone and mood of what you're going for there. AoD's example gives cause for hope I'm sure, especially given how particular its niche is.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Are you guys satisfied with the sales of DR thus far?
To answer the obvious question, no, i cannot judge those numbers by myself. I don't really follow social media, sure don't have any 'gaming' friends, so got no clue as to how to weigh things: namely what DR is versus how much one could expect it to sell.

I don't know because we don't have much data to compare. All we have is Steamspy and if we compare to other tactical indie games it seems that DR sold well enough. Stellar Tactics was released 2 months ago and sold 3,766 ± 1,606 copies. Telepath Tactics was released more than a year ago and sold 4,484 ± 1,752 copies.

And second question (lol). I remember your posting something about a six month trial and error period, for the engine shift. Has that begun? And if so, how's it going?

Too early to say.

I realize that AOD represents exactly the kind of economy that can't scale up, but every time I see that it's made well over a million bucks, I'm struck by the sense that it really isn't impossible for a developer to make money off non-cinematic RPGs.

It's more than possible. One correction though: AoD isn't just a non-cinematic game. It's a game with crappy graphics running on an old engine. With a good engine and good (but not great) visuals you should be able to sell 150-200,000 copies in the first year. Talking about a hardcore RPG, of course.

Ha, Fallen Gods is the RPG we're working on. But (1) I expect to lose money on it...

Expecting to fail is a healthy and realistic attitude. Accepting success after expecting to fail is easy (a pleasant surprise, basically). Dealing with failure after expecting success because you're awesome can crush you like a bug. So expect to fail and we'll all hope and pray for you to succeed.

 

[Goral]

Too early to say.

So it has begun, huh... I hope he will succeed.

 

[MRY]

I realize that AOD represents exactly the kind of economy that can't scale up, but every time I see that it's made well over a million bucks, I'm struck by the sense that it really isn't impossible for a developer to make money off non-cinematic RPGs.

It's more than possible. One correction though: AoD isn't just a non-cinematic game. It's a game with crappy graphics running on an old engine. With a good engine and good (but not great) visuals you should be able to sell 150-200,000 copies in the first year. Talking about a hardcore RPG, of course.

I'm not actually sure that I would consider AoD a hardcore RPG. There's so much loaded in even broaching the question that I don't want to create a brouhaha, but part of why I liked the game is that it actually lacks (or lets you bypass) a great deal of the cruft that some would consider a big part of hardcore RPGs. Maybe this is a debate over the meaning of "hardcore," though, which is silly to have. In my mind, the combat is very demanding and the game does have the possibility of dead-ending yourself with a terrible build or whatever, but there are other ways in which it felt considerably streamlined to me (in a good way).

Expecting to fail is a healthy and realistic attitude. Accepting success after expecting to fail is easy (a pleasant surprise, basically). Dealing with failure after expecting success because you're awesome can crush you like a bug. So expect to fail and we'll all hope and pray for you to succeed.

I mean, if Fallen Gods made AoD money and I kept it all, I guess that might have some material impact on me, but nowadays the money I made on Primordia (my most personally lucrative game project -- it's grossed around $500k and netted me about $80k) wouldn't make an appreciable difference, especially if spread across the years it takes to make a game. The money I made on Torment was completely indefensible as an economic proposition -- I was basically selling the most valuable hours of my time (the thin margins of freedom left by a day job and a family) for fewer dollars an hour than I made as a summer school teacher my first year of college. The only way these projects are justifiable are basically as some mix of escapism, vanity, passion, and marketing. The real risk with FG is not that it doesn't make money but that people are so offended by things like baby-eating witches and slave-taking raiders and giving a comely maiden to a wurm in exchange for lore and so forth that it brings me public grief. Or, more likely, that the project fizzles and I'm left with something I'm not proud of. But whether it sells or not really doesn't matter much. There's a decent chance I'll end up giving it away for free, or perhaps pricing at at $2 or something, or giving all the money it makes to the classics department of a local school or library.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

. The real risk with FG is not that it doesn't make money but that people are so offended by things like baby-eating witches and slave-taking raiders and giving a comely maiden to a wurm in exchange for lore and so forth that it brings me public grie

Sounds like fun!

 

[GuiltyofBeingTrite]

Witcher 3 had baby/kid eating witches and was universally lauded, so I wouldn't be too worried about that. Giving the player agency to do that is a different matter.

 

[MRY]

The witch is a party member and it's an option you select, and as a consequence your follower grows stronger. :/ Part of the game's theme is the amorality of the protagonist's efforts to return to heaven, but sometimes that kind of thing gets lost on folks. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread farther.