Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[tormund]

I just hope that they unbalance Sawyer's combat and include BG2-like hard counters, instead of the "+2% for 10 seconds" crap.

No.
Git gud...

 

[Kev Inkline]

Darklands map

Pillows of Eternity map

MAKE MAPS GREAT AGAIN

I tried at least.

 

[Perkel]

Party size is serious business: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91215-only-five-party-members/?p=1875837

It's funny how the Codex of all places seems to be mostly shrugging at this.

Because part of 6 is decline while party of 4-5 in incline for type of game they make. Anyone who played BG and other IW games with party of 4-5 people instead of 6 knows that.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Seriously though, in light of Eric Fenstermaker's interview, and stuff he said there about fewer but more developed companions, later confirmed by Josh, I think The party size reduction is in part to allow for a smaller number of overall companions than the original PoE's starting 9.

That's pretty much what I said without reading any interviews. That is par for the course with modern RPG development of this style.

How many RPGs have released lately where a dev said: Option #1 - "We're going to cut down a bit on the overall character development for the companions, but in exchange we're going to have a lot more of them! This means that while each character may not have a novel's worth of dialogue, there will be many different ways to build your party that encourages experimentation! There will be different, unique synergies you can create and gameplay implications to consider, as well as more difficult to recruit characters, some hidden characters and even Affinity Combo attacks depending on which charcters you are currently using!"

Or do you usually see: Option #2 - "We are going to have a few companions, but they are going to be *really* fleshed out! They will have tons of dialogue, party banter, involved side quests and romance options! You will grow to love these characters because we've invested so much into them and we let our writers run free with their stories!"

Just an observation. Spoiler - It's usually Option #2.

 

[Sizzle]

Again, one of the things that made BG2 so fun were the high-level mage battles that were pretty much absent in POE1.

Don't want to spoil things too much, but if you've got a hankering for those you should really play TWM

 

[Artyoan]

I think my issue with the party size is more like this:
1. Tank
2. Healer
3. Damage Dealer
4. Crowd Control
5. Flavor
6. More Flavor

 

[Lady_Error]

Again, one of the things that made BG2 so fun were the high-level mage battles that were pretty much absent in POE1.

Don't want to spoil things too much, but if you've got a hankering for those you should really play TWM

Thanks. If that is truly the case, I'm looking forward to POE2. I tried playing POE1 again to get to TWM, but lost interest before getting there.

 

[Prime Junta]

Cutting the party down to 5 won't do any harm to the gameplay. My only problem with it is that I'm mildly OCD about completing all companion quests which means more party reshuffling. OTOH there are fewer companions overall so eh I guess.

 

[Haplo]

Frankly managing large parties in the cumbersome RTwP format is a pain. I would even be fine with 4, like in Tyranny.

What would really make me happy, would be going turn-based though. But I don't believe there is a chance for that in this franchise.

Aren't there enough turn-based games already? Since the XCom remake exploded everything now is turn-based. RTwP is rare and there should be a few RPGs at least that use it.

It's also not really a pain to manage in any of the Infinity Engine games. Probably because the only thing you really have to actively manage are who you are attacking + which spell you are using (minus the occasional pauses to regroup, etc.). In PoE even the melee characters have skills that have to be managed, so that aspect can make it more confusing.

Nope. For me the only good, relatively new, turn-based games have been Shadowrun and Might & Magic X. The former was a bit simplistic for my taste, but it just worked nonetheless.

WL 2 was shit.
D:OS was too cartoonish and juvenile for me to enjoy. Also any challenge evaporated real fast.
LoX was bland (I know you disagree)
T:ToN: seems like combat is almost an afterthought here, so I wouldn't mind that being a RTwP, like PS:T was. Don't really care either way.

AoD I haven't played.

I would love to have another turn based game with a robust class, ability and spell systems. PoE would be a good candidate, I think.

 

[Lambach]

Don't want to spoil things too much, but if you've got a hankering for those you should really play TWM

There was not a single interesting mage fight in TWM. That one fight against a certain Archmage was only interesting because of her reptilian companions, not because of her. And mage fights never stood a chance of being interesting in PoE because most mage spells are impotent garbage.

Speaking of which, did anyone notice what a joke level 7 and 8 Druid and Mage spells were? Did anyone playtest that shit? Llengrath's Dread Haze, for example, is a level 8 Mage spell that leaves enemies Sickened and conceals their health (???) for 20 seconds. Vile Thorns, on the other hand, is a level 1 (one) Druid spell that does some damage and leaves enemies Sickened for 10 seconds.

Josh, or whoever designed the spells, is a legit fucking moron. That's why I have pretty much zero hope PoE 2's combat will rise above the original. There are no indications that anyone in the team can make it happen.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Nope. For me the only good, relatively new, turn-based games have been Shadowrun and Might & Magic X. The former was a bit simplistic for my taste, but it just worked nonetheless.

WL 2 was shit.
D:OS was too cartoonish and juvenile for me to enjoy. Also any challenge evaporated real fast.
LoX was bland (I know you disagree)
T:ToN: seems like combat is almost an afterthought here, so I wouldn't mind that being a RTwP, like PS:T was. Don't really care either way.

AoD I haven't played.

I would love to have another turn based game with a robust class, ability and spell systems. PoE would be a good candidate, I think.

Even if you count those 2 turn-based games as games you liked, that's still 2 more of that style that have come out compared to RTwP. The rest you didn't like but they still exist. Not many RTWP RPGs exist or are coming out nowadays. Other than Serpents in the Staglands and Pillars of Eternity, which new RPGs are RTwP?

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Already at 85%.Is it me or this is going much better then WL3?

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

I do think everyone will start a new play of POE1 right? I know I will :D

 

[Kem0sabe]

That masquerade thing was rtwp, so was that sword coast thing.

Anyways, this thing will be set on a series of volcanic Islands, full of hostile natives and a secretive hidden God... Obsidian os appropriating my culture!

 

[tormund]

Josh, or whoever designed the spells, is a legit fucking moron. That's why I have pretty much zero hope PoE 2's combat will rise above the original. There are no indications that anyone in the team can make it happen.

Try to be less obvious with your trolling in the future, my serbian friend... unless you are fishing for a tag.

 

[Lambach]

Try to be less obvious with your trolling in the future, my serbian friend... unless you are fishing for a tag.

Feel free to prove me wrong, then.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

That masquerade thing was rtwp, so was that sword coast thing.

Forgot about those. So 4 RTwP RPGs vs. Over 9000 turn-based.

 

[Infinitron]

Try to be less obvious with your trolling in the future, my serbian friend... unless you are fishing for a tag.

Feel free to prove me wrong, then.

OK, here are some reasons why that could make sense:

1) Druids aren't Wizards. They're meant to have better damage spells at the cost of versatility.
2) Vile Thorns is a short ranged cone AoE - riskier to use than Llengrath's Dread Haze.
3) 20 seconds is more than 10 seconds, and on the high range of durations seen in PoE.
4) Llengrath's Dread Haze is a Will attack. Vile Thorns' Sickening effect is a Fortitude attack, making it less useful for Ogres and other big tough nasties.
5) Perhaps most importantly, Llengrath's Dread Haze probably doesn't do friendly fire.

But the unusual Health and Endurance concealment property of Llengrath's Dread Haze makes me think it's primarily meant to be a spell that's used against you by the AI. Being able to take it for yourself is just an added bonus.

 

[pocahaunted]

I don't know how to feel about this. PoE was shit and I never even bothered to finish the game despite backing it, but Tyranny was actually pretty interesting and playable.

 

[Lambach]

1) Druids aren't Wizards. They're meant to have better damage spells at the cost of versatility.
2) Vile Thorns is a short ranged cone AoE - riskier to use than Llengrath's Dread Haza.
3) 20 seconds is more than 10 seconds, and on the high range of durations seen in PoE.
4) Llengrath's Dread Haze is a Will attack. Vile Thorns' Sickening effect is a Fortitude attack, making it less useful for Ogres and other big tough nasties.
5) Perhaps most importantly, Llengrath's Dread Haze doesn't do friendly fire ("Foe AoE").

None of that explains why a level 8 spell produces a single debuff that you can literally ignore at such high levels. It's -1 to all Attributes (oh no, I'm going to have 3% less damage and have 1 less Accuracy... at level 15/16!) and -10 Will and Fortitude. It's absurd.

Besides, it's not the only garbage spell. Kalakoth's Freezing Rake does something like ~80-ish (if the enemy doesn't save) damage and Hobbles for 8 seconds. This is at the point in the game where tankier mobs have over 300 Endurance, squishier ones around 200 and fights last for about a minute or so, at least on PotD. Same goes for Wilting Wind, with its "whooping" 60 Raw Damage.

Compare that to Horrid Wilting in BG2, that can instantly take out squishy targets, Spell Triggers, Simulacrums, Symbol of X spells etc. and you see why even bothering to cast Wizard spells in PoE is absurd. You're much better off just buffing a Barbarian with Priest spells and letting him loose.

 

[Infinitron]

It's true that it's not a very spectacular spell, but on the other hand I'm not sure there actually that many Wizard spells in the game that inflict any status effect on such a large area-of-effect for so long a duration, with no friendly fire. If you really want to Sicken people, well, that's the ultimate Sickening spell.

 

[Lambach]

It's true that it's not a very spectacular spell, but on the other hand I'm not sure there actually that many Wizard spells in the game that inflict any status effect on such a large area-of-effect for so long a duration, with no friendly fire. If you really want to Sicken people, well, that's the ultimate Sickening spell.

Yeah, but I why would I want to Sicken people at level 15? Is it even possible to notice a difference at such a high level when your enemy does only 97% instead of 100% of its total damage, or has 99 Accuracy instead of 100? You're much better off just flinging another Fireball or something. Also, friendly fire is not a problem with high Int, you can always easily maneuver with the inner and outer circles.

And again, it's not only that one. I can't find a single decent level 7 or 8 Wizard spell. Concelhaut's Crushing Doom is the only one I can think of that comes close. Druids are no better. I haven't cast a level 7 Druid spell once in the 20-25 hours I've had a level 13+ Hiravias in the party. Level 8, only that Tornado thingy was decent.

 

[Parabalus]

None of that explains why a level 8 spell produces a single debuff that you can literally ignore at such high levels. It's -1 to all Attributes (oh no, I'm going to have 3% less damage and have 1 less Accuracy... at level 15/16!) and -10 Will and Fortitude. It's absurd.

Besides, it's not the only garbage spell. Kalakoth's Freezing Rake does something like ~80-ish (if the enemy doesn't save) damage and Hobbles for 8 seconds. This is at the point in the game where tankier mobs have over 300 Endurance, squishier ones around 200 and fights last for about a minute or so, at least on PotD. Same goes for Wilting Wind, with its "whooping" 60 Raw Damage.

Compare that to Horrid Wilting in BG2, that can instantly take out squishy targets, Spell Triggers, Simulacrums, Symbol of X spells etc. and you see why even bothering to cast Wizard spells in PoE is absurd. You're much better off just buffing a Barbarian with Priest spells and letting him loose.

Mages are completely overpowered in Bg2, to the point that it's easier to solo encounters with a mage than to keep a full party alive - thankfully Sawyer mostly fixed that shit in PoE.

Wizards are still one of the strongest PoE classes, it's telling that your natural comparison is 2 characters vs 1. Wizard spell generally do less damage but have CC, you forgot that Freezing Rake also weakens and has a fast cast time. There are no saves any more, you roll accuracy on them as with attacks, they can't be saved against. You should read descriptions more carefully.

 

[tormund]

You should read descriptions more carefully.

This.

Now please stop giving undue attention to low effort troll.

 

[Hyperion]

Yeah, but I why would I want to Sicken people at level 15? Is it even possible to notice a difference at such a high level when your enemy does only 97% instead of 100% of its total damage, or has 99 Accuracy instead of 100? You're much better off just flinging another Fireball or something. Also, friendly fire is not a problem with high Int, you can always easily maneuver with the inner and outer circles.

And again, it's not only that one. I can't find a single decent level 7 or 8 Wizard spell. Concelhaut's Crushing Doom is the only one I can think of that comes close. Druids are no better. I haven't cast a level 7 Druid spell once in the 20-25 hours I've had a level 13+ Hiravias in the party. Level 8, only that Tornado thingy was decent.

Kalakoth's Freezing Rake can hit twice unless it was nerfed / fixed. With Secrets of Rime and 18 Might it can deal over 250 damage. Substantial Phantom is excellent for extra, simultaneous ranged attacks, debuffs (it can cast Arduous Delay of Motion), and is a meat shield. Tayn's Chaotic Orb can dismantle an enemy party, and Ninagauth's Killing Bolt for those enemies with high DR.