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Game News Pillars of Eternity II Fig Update #7: Multiclassing Details with Josh Sawyer!

Zed

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Tags: J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Multi-classing, or how I learned to love the endgame attack perks of rogues, but did not want to play a rogue. Josh Sawyer pens the 7th Pillars II Fig update, and it's all about the balancing aspect (what else) of multi-classing.



Before I begin explaining how our multiclassing works, I'd like to explain our goals for multiclassing, because I think that can help put the system's mechanics into perspective. We want multiclassing to allow players to realize character concepts that aren't possible with the single class options. We want to keep the relative power of the multiclass character at about 75%-85% what a single class character would have at any given level. In our experience, that's the sweet spot where multiclass characters feel powerful and effective, but don't clearly outshine the single class characters. We want the multiclassing system to keep characters viable no matter when the player chooses to multiclass. We want to limit the number of permutations to something manageable. Finally, we want to give multiclass characters a unique title for their class combo.​


God forbid if someone found a way to build an exceptionally strong and fun class combo to play.

With that in mind, we came up with our current system. At any time from 2nd level on, players have the ability to select an additional class to advance. Both classes may have subclasses, though certain paladin orders or priest deities (both of which are required subclasses) may lightly restrict multiclass options. When they make that choice, they gain a multiclass title, like "battlemage" for a fighter/wizard. After a second class is chosen and advanced, the player may alternate between classes as they see fit. In this system, companions may also multiclass, though their 1st class must always be one of their base classes (e.g. fighter or rogue for Edér, wizard for Aloth).​

There's also a slew of info about something called Power Sources, but perhaps you should read all of that yourself in the update, but in short:

[...] Every class has a Power Source, from Rage for barbarians to Arcane for wizards. The level of a Power Source determines what level abilities can be chosen from that class, the available resources (casts/uses) for related abilities, and the strength (damage, number of projectiles, etc.) of those abilities.​

By the way, I thought it was called dual-classing when it was just two classes, and multi-classing if it was three (or more?). Grogs please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Seaking4

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In the IE games multi-classing meant leveling up two or three classes at the same time but with dual classing you had to stop leveling up the old class once you started with the new class so multi-classing is appropriate in this case.
 

Zed

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In the IE games multi-classing meant leveling up two or three classes at the same time but with dual classing you had to stop leveling up the old class once you started with the new class so multi-classing is appropriate in this case.
Thanks!
 

ArchAngel

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So he is just going to let you be lvl 10 fighter/lvl 10 wizard as a lvl 20 character and invite all the complaints D&D 3.x was full of how multiclassing spellcasters was a trap while non casters you should always multiclass?
Thx Joss.... you even fail at what you are supposed to be good at...
EDIT: OK after reading it on FIG page it seems he did do some balance pass over it, still not good enough. Using two caster classes together should give you access to max abilities but less of them based on your class level.
 

l3loodAngel

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So he is just going to let you be lvl 10 fighter/lvl 10 wizard as a lvl 20 character and invite all the complaints D&D 3.x was full of how multiclassing spellcasters was a trap while non casters you should always multiclass?
Thx Joss.... you even fail at what you are supposed to be good at...
EDIT: OK after reading it on FIG page it seems he did do some balance pass over it, still not good enough. Using two caster classes together should give you access to max abilities but less of them based on your class level.
Given how spelcasters can wipe floor with everything in DnD it's hardly surprising.

So he is just going to let you be lvl 10 fighter/lvl 10 wizard as a lvl 20 character

Did you even read the update

Shouldn't you be throwing Palestinians into the streets? Was so good when you were gone...
 

Raziel

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So he is just going to let you be lvl 10 fighter/lvl 10 wizard as a lvl 20 character and invite all the complaints D&D 3.x was full of how multiclassing spellcasters was a trap while non casters you should always multiclass?
Thx Joss.... you even fail at what you are supposed to be good at...
EDIT: OK after reading it on FIG page it seems he did do some balance pass over it, still not good enough. Using two caster classes together should give you access to max abilities but less of them based on your class level.
Your suggestion sounds retarded, maybe you should pass it on to JS?

Quite sad that's it's limited to two classes, but I guess it makes sense with their design philosophy. Appealing to both the casuals&minmaxers, end up not appeasing anyone.
 

ArchAngel

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So he is just going to let you be lvl 10 fighter/lvl 10 wizard as a lvl 20 character and invite all the complaints D&D 3.x was full of how multiclassing spellcasters was a trap while non casters you should always multiclass?
Thx Joss.... you even fail at what you are supposed to be good at...
EDIT: OK after reading it on FIG page it seems he did do some balance pass over it, still not good enough. Using two caster classes together should give you access to max abilities but less of them based on your class level.
Your suggestion sounds retarded, maybe you should pass it on to JS?

Quite sad that's it's limited to two classes, but I guess it makes sense with their design philosophy. Appealing to both the casuals&minmaxers, end up not appeasing anyone.
Well my suggestion is how 5e D&D multiclassing works :)
 

Sprout

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Quite sad that's it's limited to two classes, but I guess it makes sense with their design philosophy. Appealing to both the casuals&minmaxers, end up not appeasing anyone.
They can always build on top of that if they don't reset come the next entry/proper expansion. For now it's just fine in my books at least.

not unless Codex agrees it is good this time around.
Heh. RTWP, remember?
 

TigerKnee

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Dual-classing is a specific, human only D&D mechanic that's mostly popularized in the IE series though the non-Dragonlance Goldbox games have it too.

Every other game including non-D&D calls having multiple classes on a single character multi-classing even if the number of classes is 2.
 

Raziel

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I love the multi-class naming thing. Hope they come up with creative titles for hybrids.
Yeah, it sounds like fun additional flavor. Nevertheless it would be neat if each class(even single class) would have some in-game tangible difference. Nothing major, maybe some guy acknowledging you as a fellow Shaman etc(And I don't just mean "I've never seen a [insert player class] here before!). With how many combinations there are, it doesn't seem likely though.
 

Frusciante

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Sounds pretty wel thought out. Would hate the alternative of being stuck in a particular dual class combination from the start.
 

Sprout

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It seem It's going to attract much fewer backers this time around. :?

Going for fig for the seconds might be a smart choice. They're not getting the numbers they had first time around, but neither is Bannersaga 3 for that matter. Plus I wasn't expecting Wasteland 3 to do that well, allowing small investments seems to be working out for them and makes up for the reduced backer count.
 

Pentagon

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I love the multi-class naming thing. Hope they come up with creative titles for hybrids.
Me too, I'm really excited to see what names they come up for the more exotic combinations. Like, what is conceptually a Paladin/Rogue? Or what differentiates a Priest/Ranger from a Druid?

I also think that this is a great feature to have with the level being reset at one, because it allows for more experienced players to still have new playstyles for the sequel.
 

Pentagon

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Like, what is conceptually a Paladin/Rogue?
Rabblerouser? :M
Well the original assassins, the Hashshashin, were a Shiite cult. So the historical precedent is there. I suppose sample names could be 'Assassin', 'Holy Assassin', 'Avenger', 'Purifier', or 'Inquisitor' (Although I'd say that'd be more thematic for Paladin/Priest, but perhaps that combination could be called 'Hospitaler' instead).
 

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