Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Torment: Tides of Numenera

[Junmarko]

The review - I just skimmed it because I have a low tolerance for shit
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I can gather all this just by skimming the review.
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The reviewer does not seem to be a crpg fan. He seems to be a pompous ultra-leftist hipster. I bet he is a huge supporter of Palestine and calls jews Zionists.
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Lastly, anyone so cultist in their ultra-leftist ideology that cannot separate the product from the story behind the product should not be reviewing shit.

Love how you not only can’t handle critical opinions, but try and mislead, ineptly claiming some political agenda as the driving force behind this review.

Do you really think anyone views your hysterics as something other than a pathetic whinge?

Wouldn't it be nice if an rpg site had people on staff that actually liked rpgs?

Yes. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all shared the same opinion and no one was critical of anything?.

Haha, you label others as "ultra-leftists", yet sound like a fucking Stasi ghoul yourself with this creepy, pro-censorship angle.

 

[DeepOcean]

Pretty damning evidence that NumaNuma is shit that even its defenders are more interested on forum drama and shit throwing than actually defend the game. Guess the game was too boring for them to finish.

 

[Awakened_Yeti]

Wouldn't it be nice if an rpg site had people on staff that actually liked rpgs? It seems like the function of this site is to be edgy and full of drama instead of being an rpg site.

Didn't you say you were leaving?

 

[YES!]

The review - I just skimmed it because I have a low tolerance for shit
-
I can gather all this just by skimming the review.
-
The reviewer does not seem to be a crpg fan. He seems to be a pompous ultra-leftist hipster. I bet he is a huge supporter of Palestine and calls jews Zionists.
-
Lastly, anyone so cultist in their ultra-leftist ideology that cannot separate the product from the story behind the product should not be reviewing shit.

Love how you not only can’t handle critical opinions, but try and mislead, ineptly claiming some political agenda as the driving force behind this review.

Do you really think anyone views your hysterics as something other than a pathetic whinge?

Wouldn't it be nice if an rpg site had people on staff that actually liked rpgs?

Yes. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all shared the same opinion and no one was critical of anything?.

Haha, you label others as "ultra-leftists", yet sound like a fucking Stasi ghoul yourself.

Sure thing, buddy. I have some good news for you - OH MY GOD A NEW ZELDA IS OUT!!!!!

 

[jewboy]

Has there been talk suggesting that there's going to be substantial alterations such that I should wait 6 months before going further with this playthrough? I've still got my White March playthrough to finish, which I'm really enjoying (about half-way through the game), and the improvements since launch have been so massive that the original game feels barely comparable - entire different combat mechanics, fundamental alterations like it's different game altogether. I've also got the last 1/3 of Deus ExD to finish off. Factoring in work and kids, I could easily make those + Undertale + a 2nd Shadowrun: Dragonfall playthrough last me for 18 months, i.e. easily long enough for a PoE 3.0 style revamp.

With PoE the improvement was so great that it really wasn't a case of 'play version 1, then come back and replay 3.0/3.2', it was more a case of 'wait for them to retool this game that is very much in early beta, and then come back when they've got the finished product', or 'subtract 2 from the game's version number and you've got the right indicator'.

Any signs that something as massive as the PoE revamp will happen? Or worth playing through now and then replaying with later alterations?

Wait...what? I hated PoE combat at release. Are you saying it has changed so much that someone who initially hated it might like it now? They made fundamental changes to the combat mechanics post-release?

 

[jewboy]

The problem with nuTorment is that it fucks up basic shit. That's what is infuriating. Purple prose, really ? How many experienced writers were on that fucking team ? Every fucking retard who ever tried to write something knows the most common mistake is overwritten flowery descriptions. How do you fall in the most common trap of writing ever. This is fan fiction tier dumb fuckery.

How could you cut out half the character system (foci) ? Why the fuck do the character portraits look like shit. Why are the models shit ? Why would you make TB combat with a large number of enemy combatants ? Why ? Why, after more than a decade, do I see replicated in a professional studio game, the infamous bugbear conga line from Temple of Elemental Evil ? Can we not advance as a species ? Must we forever repeat the same mistakes till the end of time ?

Um...did you just reference ToEE combat as an example of what not to do? Seriously? It may be hard to find much agreement even here, but surely we can all agree that it's pretty hard to find any computer game with better combat than ToEE. In fact I'd like to hear a single game that you think has better combat. Far from being an example of how not to do combat TTON should have just emulated ToEE combat and focused everything else on good writing or more to the point editing good writing.

 

[Ismaul]

Prime Apologist, not even apologizing one bit? Shit, I should've gone for that refund.

What am I gonna do with that nicely packed turd when it comes in the mail? Flush my hard-earned student monies, or start a wall of shame so my rage never ends?

 

[an Administrator]

Has there been talk suggesting that there's going to be substantial alterations such that I should wait 6 months before going further with this playthrough? I've still got my White March playthrough to finish, which I'm really enjoying (about half-way through the game), and the improvements since launch have been so massive that the original game feels barely comparable - entire different combat mechanics, fundamental alterations like it's different game altogether. I've also got the last 1/3 of Deus ExD to finish off. Factoring in work and kids, I could easily make those + Undertale + a 2nd Shadowrun: Dragonfall playthrough last me for 18 months, i.e. easily long enough for a PoE 3.0 style revamp.

With PoE the improvement was so great that it really wasn't a case of 'play version 1, then come back and replay 3.0/3.2', it was more a case of 'wait for them to retool this game that is very much in early beta, and then come back when they've got the finished product', or 'subtract 2 from the game's version number and you've got the right indicator'.

Any signs that something as massive as the PoE revamp will happen? Or worth playing through now and then replaying with later alterations?

Wait...what? I hated PoE combat at release. Are you saying it has changed so much that someone who initially hated it might like it now? They made fundamental changes to the combat mechanics post-release?

They made it turn-based when you weren't looking

 

[Junmarko]

Sure thing, buddy. I have some good news for you - OH MY GOD A NEW ZELDA IS OUT!!!!!

^This guy's logic: Torment is a flawless masterpiece, because Pokemon.

 

[Invictus]

They need someone who knows how to properly manage such a project. You guys know who I am talking about, don't you?

Spoiler

A man worth more than five million KS bucks.

Hell yeah
I am not his biggest fan but there is a guy who can bring the ship in on time

 

[YES!]

Sure thing, buddy. I have some good news for you - OH MY GOD A NEW ZELDA IS OUT!!!!!

^This guy's logic: Torment is a flawless masterpiece, because Pokemon.

I definitely do not think it is a masterpiece. It is a good crpg. It has a horrible character generation. It has far better than average character development thanks to a decent implementation of the P&P system (better implementation of the system than any RT D&D 3.0 or later system). The combat is minimal but good. I have the same issue I had with Expedition: Conquistadors - if I get in a fight I want xp. In neither game is there some sort of system where you don't get xp for outleveling the fight or anything like that. They just don't give it if they don't want to. My character's interaction with the world was good. Good use of skills. I cannot complain about any specific mechanic too much. I dislike not having full party generation but I can't really complain in this case because there was no way there was ever going to be full party generation.

The itemization was really good and tied in well with character development. This system is easily exploitable for multiple play throughs, but going in blind it is a great system. I could make a character and build a team way more efficiently if I played through again right away before I forget everything, but being an anfimilar system is one of the best things about this game. And the rpg system is good. Good enough for me to buy the P&P version just to check it out.

The content I look for was all there. There was way too much talking and story for my taste but again, like with the companions, I had a very good suspicion this game was going to have a ton of story and talking. Was the story good? probably for a game. I get my worth paying attention to stories from much better sources than games so I don't give a shit. I did not read one of the merecaster things. I selected options that sounded good.

I was happy that there was actually some roleplaying options in this game. Taking the sucky little girl so you aren't a dick. There is no mechanical benefit to do this. She does become less sucky when you get a mental weapon, but she is never good. Even when she comes back in your mind at the end. There are other examples of this too. I like this. Doing something the character I created would do because that is the type of person he is - not because the game gives you faction or friend or lightside points. No mechanical benefit at all - just doing what the genre is supposed to support you in doing.

I rate this game besides AoD and Underrail - a very competently done crpg. Neither AoD or Underrail are my favorites, but they are definitely worth buying, supporting, and playing if you are a rpg fan. These are the games of the genre I like. Rpgs. I buy them. I support them. And I play them. I dislike the combat and character development and

I like this game a lot more than PoE and Tyranny, but I don't have hissy fits and be a fucking drama queen writing hit pieces because I'm a fucking retard that wants to hurt the genre and the games I want. PoE and Tyranny are competently done RTwP rpgs. RTwP rpg means shitty combat and even if the games have a decent character generation and development system it doesn't matter because the combat is aimed at people who are stupid and easily confused. I want more rpgs so I buy them and appreciate them for what the give me - a decent, if simple, rpg experience.

What I can't do is support console games with lite rpg elements as somehow being the shiny examples of what this genre should be. I don't want to play a slightly interactive movie that cost more to make than the GDP of most countries.

I want rpgs so I support rpgs. You guys want console games and super cool hipster games so you shit on real rpgs and jerk off all over Witcher and Dragon Age and try to force games like Metal Gear and other shit into this genre. You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

 

[Iznaliu]

PoE on the other hand was bland as shit, the story was a pretext with no plot hook and it buried you under tons of copy pasted trash mobs and MOBA style loot. I couldn't finish such a piece a shit for the same reason I never finished Wasteland 2 - I won't play the same encounter 10 times in a row like a lobotomized retard.*

People's dislike of PoE can be distilled to one point: It isn't an exact clone of BG2

 

[Valky]

You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

But why would you support shitty games to get good games? That's not how it works.

 

[YES!]

You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

But why would you support shitty games to get good games? That's not how it works.

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

 

[Valky]

You pieces of shit disgust me. This site, that used to be 100% in line with the promotion of rpgs that aren't just mindless superficial bullshit slightly interactive movies is now the enemy of real rpgs. You're all fucking brainless morons. This interview perfectly suits you all and this site. Just a biased drama piece focused on bullshit far more than content written by a fucking pompous shill that doesn't even really like rpgs. This is the state of this site. Just children and really fucking stupid people making no sense and happy about it as long as the hivemind of retards all love and hate the same shit. No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

But why would you support shitty games to get good games? That's not how it works.

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

Here's a novel idea, why not restrict your flow of money only to those games that are genuine incline? Do you want more crpgs for the sake of crpgs or do you want more good crpgs that are good video games?

 

[Kron]

No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

Real ironic you saying people should relax. Stop throwing such a hissy fit ffs. The Codex is not some magical perfect place like you apparently thought, it's just another fucking forum in the internet where people voice their opinions and delight in the misery of failed games, like any sane person should do. Most people that dislike this game are talking about the game being bland, badly written and incoherent, not obsessed with Fargo or other devs; most gamers seem to just not care about the game at all.
Still, given the high profile of the project and the people behind it, it is valid to raise the question of just what the fuck happened here.

 

[Iznaliu]

I support crpgs to get crpgs. Is Torment a shitty crpg? No, certainly not. If you remove all the drama and retard talking points its a decent game. I'm not saying no one should hate. I hated the last "D&D" game that came out, but that was based on it not being 5.0 even a little. It was a game with a completely made up system based in a D&D realm. They advertised it as 5.0. Objectively, if I were to rate this game I fucking hate with a passion I would have to do so based on the game's merit and mechanics as unbiased as I possibly could. Sure, I would certainly add in the review about it not being even a little 5.0 but how much does this matter to say the majority of user's of this site? They don't even like real rpgs, nevermind know what the mechanics of a P&P system are. They just want to know how fancy the graphics are, is it super hip and happening with tons of people watching other people playing it on some website for fucking retarded fuckheads, and if it isn't coming out for console does it have, like, real good controller support?

SCL is a $99 netbook

T:ToN is a $499 laptop smeared in shit that constantly plays a track of Fargo laughing even with the volume off

They are both bad, but they are different kinds of bad.

 

[Junmarko]

Anyone who actually likes crpgs that gives any credence to this review is either too young to be able to form their own opinion or too stupid to realize they most likely do not like crpgs.

the codex was an actual rpg site it created butthurt by attacking shallow and superficial console games and promoting actual rpgs. Now it does the opposite.

What I can't do is support console games with lite rpg elements as somehow being the shiny examples of what this genre should be.

It has a horrible character generation.

I'll leave if you guys tell me why you are all so into posting on an rpg site when you don't even like rpgs?

Wouldn't it be nice if an rpg site had people on staff that actually liked rpgs?

Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

I bet he is a huge supporter of Palestine and calls jews Zionists.

Serious question, are you larping as schizoid Castoffs?

 

[Iznaliu]

Serious question, are you larping as schizoid Castoffs?

BTW, does anyone know where YES! got the idea that we all hated RPGs? Fargo showering him in cash?

 

[Valky]

No normal person cares about what actors do or have to say - and this site is like one of those shows about celebrities where people give way too much attention to the personally lives of developers. Normal people don't give a shit about people who make our entertainment. We want the entertainment and not the fucking scoop on who is fucking who or who is saying what. You guys are fucking weird and need to relax on that shit. Put the focus back on good games worth playing that are rpgs in more than just the most superficial way and the most superficial of emchanics. Grow the fuck up you silly bitches.

Real ironic you saying people should relax. Stop throwing such a hissy fit ffs. The Codex is not some magical perfect place like you apparently thought, it's just another fucking forum in the internet where people voice their opinions and delight in the misery of failed games, like any sane person should do. Most people that dislike this game are talking about the game being bland, badly written and incoherent, not obsessed with Fargo or other devs; most gamers seem to just not care about the game at all.
Still, given the high profile of the project and the people behind it, it is valid to raise the question of just what the fuck happened here.

Fargo is bad with a budget is my guess.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Fans of the Numenera pen-and-paper RPG are likely to be disappointed by Tides as well. The Numenera system never was a good fit for a cRPG, but it would have been possible to make a cRPG system that retained some of its unique features while adding the kind of complexity computers can easily handle. Cyphers – powerful single-use “magic” items that can do practically anything – are supposed to be front and centre; in Tides, they are at best a side dish, rarely worth using instead of a character’s own abilities. Moreover, many items that ought to be cyphers (specifically, those restoring Health or Pool points) are just ordinary consumables that don’t count toward a character’s cypher limit. Numenera’s unique rest mechanic is gone, replaced by bog-standard healing potion spam. The outcome is an uncomfortable mix of some of Numenera’s worst aspects and unimaginative, generic cRPG mechanics.

Some of these problems could be offset if encounters were well-designed, interesting, and exciting...

No, no, no. Encounters and other design elements dont compensate for a shitty systems. Systems are the pillars on which everything is built. If you fuck them up its lights out no matter of what you do.

Let me illustrate: If your car chassis is busted it doesn't matter that the seats are comfortable and the engine is still running.

In the meantime, the Brothel for the Slaking of Intellectual Lusts remains open for business, as Ravel spins her webs in her maze and the Dustmen silently toil in the Mortuary, and in the Fortress of Regrets transcendence and a ghost of unrequited love await a grim planewalker scarred with a thousand deaths.

Yup, reads better than TToN.

Live orchestra. Cut. Ruins of Ossiphagan. Cut. The Toy. Another companion. The Order of Flagellants and Austerities. Cut, cut cut. Lacunae, Hall of Lingering Reflections, yet another companion, another exit from the Castoff’s labyrinth, Voluminous Codex, the Oasis of M’Ra Jolios, player stronghold, Fathoms, foci, legacies, joinable factions, Italian localisation, all gone.

What does one cut matter? But seriously, have any of this would have made the game better at this state? At this point the orchestra would have played same boring Morgan tracks, the Toy would have complained about lack of diversity or something equally irrelevant.

And well, the whole inXile should have joined the order of austerity themselves. The austerity for finance and for word count.

They had the budget. They had the talent. They even had a ready-made isometric cRPG engine and asset production pipeline. What happened here?

The management? That's why the publishers are needed. They control both the process and the costs as without it people like Fargo run amok. They are both the leash and the rope that's sorely needed. Giving the money to a person who lacks talent basics of management is like giving a signed check book for a gambler.

Now it's clear why they (the publishers) cancel projects with 80mm invested. If you see that the current team/management is incapable of finishing or producing quality you just pull the plug.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

I don't see what money/project management has to do with a good story, which is all the first one had. The best stories are often written on a budget of whiskey/coffee. That this game's story didn't live up to whatever people expected isn't really a surprise. PS:T was kind of a freak accident. One of a kind thing.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Well, at least the Codex has realized how much Obsidian has delivered with PoE.

 

[Daedalos]

Well, at least the Codex has realized how much Obsidian has delivered with PoE.

Delivering tons of shit, is still shit.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I don't see what money/project management has to do with a good story, which is all the first one had. The best stories are often written on a budget of whiskey/coffee. That this game's story didn't live up to whatever people expected isn't really a surprise. PS:T was kind of a freak accident. One of a kind thing.

Oh, but the story was good. Not PST good, but good and the rest was execution.