KickStarter Forged of Blood - turn-based tactical fantasy RPG

[Deleted Member 16721]

Yeah, I figured as much. Just should note that I wouldn't expect many "world/environment altering" type spells in a game like this. Maybe in a future game you guys make you can try something like that.

 

[vivec]

Is it possible to use magic in non-combat situations? Charm/Suggestion/invisible to bypass security/distraction with illusions etc type?

Well, this is complicated to answer but I'd say the short of it is "no".

There are no Charm/Suggestion or other mind effecting spells. The reality is if you introduced such capabilities into a world, imagine the impact it would have. For the purpose of world creation, we precluded a number of spell effects. No resurrection, no mind effecting spells, no time travel, etc. The reason is the impact these types of spells would have on a world would render the world extremely unstable and foreign.

We do have "invisibility". If you wanted to move past a group of enemies without them being able to react to you, you could cast an AOE Invisibility on your party with duration (so it lasts long enough) and follow (so the invisibility follows the characters as they move). Exactly how it would work though is not yet worked out though. While the spell can be created, we are still working out issues with FoW and sight, as well as AI response/changes. It is still too early to state exactly how it would work.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

I really like this answer. It's to the point and respects the setting. I am amazed that yours is the first game in recent times to actually build the setting to the abilities that are available. The last game I played that had this kind of commitment was VtMtB. All that I hear so far is quite pleasing.

How do you plan to balance magic vs other forms of combat? Will magic have a lot of non-damage roles to play? I am talking about what is commonly called buffing, debuffing and healing? I am always worried that magic can be used as simply graphically enhanced damage dealing. That ruins its uniqueness.

 

[Milo]

Is it possible to use magic in non-combat situations? Charm/Suggestion/invisible to bypass security/distraction with illusions etc type?

Well, this is complicated to answer but I'd say the short of it is "no".

There are no Charm/Suggestion or other mind effecting spells. The reality is if you introduced such capabilities into a world, imagine the impact it would have. For the purpose of world creation, we precluded a number of spell effects. No resurrection, no mind effecting spells, no time travel, etc. The reason is the impact these types of spells would have on a world would render the world extremely unstable and foreign.

We do have "invisibility". If you wanted to move past a group of enemies without them being able to react to you, you could cast an AOE Invisibility on your party with duration (so it lasts long enough) and follow (so the invisibility follows the characters as they move). Exactly how it would work though is not yet worked out though. While the spell can be created, we are still working out issues with FoW and sight, as well as AI response/changes. It is still too early to state exactly how it would work.

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

I really like this answer. It's to the point and respects the setting. I am amazed that yours is the first game in recent times to actually build the setting to the abilities that are available. The last game I played that had this kind of commitment was VtMtB. All that I hear so far is quite pleasing.

How do you plan to balance magic vs other forms of combat? Will magic have a lot of non-damage roles to play? I am talking about what is commonly called buffing, debuffing and healing? I am always worried that magic can be used as simply graphically enhanced damage dealing. That ruins its uniqueness.

Hello,

Well, I am a bit hesitant to answer questions like this with specifics as things in development always have some degree of flux to them. However, I can give some examples based on current implementation.

There are, effectively, 60 distinct effects. The effects can be changed with modifiers and combined/stacked with other effects to cause different things to happen but the core is 60 effects. Of those 60 effects, 2 do simple damage and both of those were shown in the video (thermal expel base and thermal drain base cause heat and cold, respectively, damage effects). We have some that are still being implemented, such as damage to damage binding (basically, all damage one of the bound characters take, the other bound characters also take), that effectively cause damage indirectly. We have 1 healing effect (also shown in the videos and in the PAX build). The rest have other effects, such as teleport, spatial warp, invisibility, debuffs (one of which was shown in the PAX build) and buffs of various sorts, pushes/pulls, scrying, etc. There are also unique "discovered" effects that aren't part of the 60 (don't want to give these away though). From my perspective, if you are seeing magic as a form of DPS, you aren't going to be utilising it that well.

As for the balance, I have not worked out the numbers behind the magic for it to be balanced. We first need to have fairly solidified mechanics so that I don't have to rework the math later and then it will likely be about 2 or 3 weeks of just number crunching followed by extensive testing, both internally and in our planned beta testing.

Let me know if you have any more questions

 

[Milo]

Yeah, I figured as much. Just should note that I wouldn't expect many "world/environment altering" type spells in a game like this. Maybe in a future game you guys make you can try something like that.

What do you mean by world/environment altering? Do you mean like weather? We had discussed that and for numerous reasoned decided against it. You can alter the environment in other ways, such as knocking down trees, walls, etc.

As for future games, I'll leave that discussion for the future as I am enjoying making Forged of Blood now

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What do you mean by world/environment altering? Do you mean like weather? We had discussed that and for numerous reasoned decided against it. You can alter the environment in other ways, such as knocking down trees, walls, etc.

I don't think I used the right words. I meant "world-altering" as something similar to a traditional RPG where you explore, solve problems, charm NPCs or have various advanced dealings with them (Bluff, Persuade, etc..) Not a criticism that your game doesn't have that, as obviously it is a tactical RPG and not a full-blown CRPG. That is why I suspected the game wouldn't have those features.

The game looks and sounds great. I am very interested since ToEE, tabletop D&D and Tactics Ogre are large influences on the design. That sounds incredibly promising to an old-school nerd like me!

 

[vivec]

Hello,

Well, I am a bit hesitant to answer questions like this with specifics as things in development always have some degree of flux to them. However, I can give some examples based on current implementation.

There are, effectively, 60 distinct effects. The effects can be changed with modifiers and combined/stacked with other effects to cause different things to happen but the core is 60 effects. Of those 60 effects, 2 do simple damage and both of those were shown in the video (thermal expel base and thermal drain base cause heat and cold, respectively, damage effects). We have some that are still being implemented, such as damage to damage binding (basically, all damage one of the bound characters take, the other bound characters also take), that effectively cause damage indirectly. We have 1 healing effect (also shown in the videos and in the PAX build). The rest have other effects, such as teleport, spatial warp, invisibility, debuffs (one of which was shown in the PAX build) and buffs of various sorts, pushes/pulls, scrying, etc. There are also unique "discovered" effects that aren't part of the 60 (don't want to give these away though). From my perspective, if you are seeing magic as a form of DPS, you aren't going to be utilising it that well.

As for the balance, I have not worked out the numbers behind the magic for it to be balanced. We first need to have fairly solidified mechanics so that I don't have to rework the math later and then it will likely be about 2 or 3 weeks of just number crunching followed by extensive testing, both internally and in our planned beta testing.

Let me know if you have any more questions

Lovely. Looking forward to playing this.

 

[CritiestBunny]

Hey everyone,

Sorry for being a little absent these past few weeks, our trip has been a long one and I just got waylaid even more. We have a quick update for you all with a short series of videos that will cover a few topics that didn't quite make the Kickstarter video. We've got a few planned out so far: the foundation, worldbuilding, narrative design, and the magic, but let us know what else you guys would like to know.



And as always, please help us spread the word out.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Gotta love that approach to language.

Its something I frequently have an issue with when reading fantasy. Tolkien was a linguist and exactly knew what he was doing when he came up with words and languages. That everything feels completely consistent and believable is something that you notice - even on a subconscious level, if you have no clue about language. A lot of fantasy authors who ape him unfortunately have no idea what the hell they are doing and when they randomly pull something out of thin air that sounds 'fantasy-ish' you can immediately tell and it just feels awkward and immersion breaking. Malazan is my favorite example for this, a series I enjoy and which has otherwise great world building but the fantasy language in there sounds so ridiculous sometimes.

Your approach sounds resonably functional with the resources your have. Using morphemes and phonemes of an exotic existing language might ensure that you can make it sound believable and alien at the same time. I would love to hear some examples of what you came up with!

 

[Arulan]

How is this game still only at ~11K (USD)?!

 

[Ruchy]

This looks very promising so it is a shame the kickstarter doesn't seem to have legs, saying that I have not pledged either because I'm a cheap pessimist.

 

[CritiestBunny]

Gotta love that approach to language.

Its something I frequently have an issue with when reading fantasy. Tolkien was a linguist and exactly knew what he was doing when he came up with words and languages. That everything feels completely consistent and believable is something that you notice - even on a subconscious level, if you have no clue about language. A lot of fantasy authors who ape him unfortunately have no idea what the hell they are doing and when they randomly pull something out of thin air that sounds 'fantasy-ish' you can immediately tell and it just feels awkward and immersion breaking. Malazan is my favorite example for this, a series I enjoy and which has otherwise great world building but the fantasy language in there sounds so ridiculous sometimes.

Your approach sounds resonably functional with the resources your have. Using morphemes and phonemes of an exotic existing language might ensure that you can make it sound believable and alien at the same time. I would love to hear some examples of what you came up with!

Thanks! I'm not a linguist by any stretch of the imagination, but English is my second language so I do end up paying a little bit more attention into words and the structure. Some of the words we're looking at now are how we'd label some of the military units and roles in the world. As usual we started with a latin base and we're iterating from there. The part where I'm having some debate over is in which cases do we come up with a unique word or use an English vernacular.

How is this game still only at ~11K (USD)?!

The strugs. See the quote below I guess.

But in all seriousness, we're just struggling to find the right messaging that will get some of the bigger media outlets to even look at our game. I've sent a torrent of emails to the big guys (RPS, IGN, PC Gamer, Kotaku, etc...) along with a lot of the smaller indie writers and we've had very few bites outside the niche RPG communities. Only thing to do is keep trying...

This looks very promising so it is a shame the kickstarter doesn't seem to have legs, saying that I have not pledged either because I'm a cheap pessimist.

We understand the hesitation on the part of the consumer, but do check us out again next year when we're in a more complete state. We're in this project for the long haul... the guys and I have personality invested our lives into making this and by golly we'll finish it.

 

[ArchAngel]

This is an unpopular opinion but you might want to contact Fig people. It helped the Consortium guys when their KS was going badly and they switched to Fig mid campaign and managed to get funding they needed through Fig.

 

[CritiestBunny]

This is an unpopular opinion but you might want to contact Fig people. It helped the Consortium guys when their KS was going badly and they switched to Fig mid campaign and managed to get funding they needed through Fig.

Ooooooh... we'll need to have a convo with the team but that isn't a bad idea. Thanks man!

 

[HoboForEternity]

Gotta love that approach to language.

Its something I frequently have an issue with when reading fantasy. Tolkien was a linguist and exactly knew what he was doing when he came up with words and languages. That everything feels completely consistent and believable is something that you notice - even on a subconscious level, if you have no clue about language. A lot of fantasy authors who ape him unfortunately have no idea what the hell they are doing and when they randomly pull something out of thin air that sounds 'fantasy-ish' you can immediately tell and it just feels awkward and immersion breaking. Malazan is my favorite example for this, a series I enjoy and which has otherwise great world building but the fantasy language in there sounds so ridiculous sometimes.

Your approach sounds resonably functional with the resources your have. Using morphemes and phonemes of an exotic existing language might ensure that you can make it sound believable and alien at the same time. I would love to hear some examples of what you came up with!

Thanks! I'm not a linguist by any stretch of the imagination, but English is my second language so I do end up paying a little bit more attention into words and the structure. Some of the words we're looking at now are how we'd label some of the military units and roles in the world. As usual we started with a latin base and we're iterating from there. The part where I'm having some debate over is in which cases do we come up with a unique word or use an English vernacular.

How is this game still only at ~11K (USD)?!

The strugs. See the quote below I guess.

But in all seriousness, we're just struggling to find the right messaging that will get some of the bigger media outlets to even look at our game. I've sent a torrent of emails to the big guys (RPS, IGN, PC Gamer, Kotaku, etc...) along with a lot of the smaller indie writers and we've had very few bites outside the niche RPG communities. Only thing to do is keep trying...

This looks very promising so it is a shame the kickstarter doesn't seem to have legs, saying that I have not pledged either because I'm a cheap pessimist.

We understand the hesitation on the part of the consumer, but do check us out again next year when we're in a more complete state. We're in this project for the long haul... the guys and I have personality invested our lives into making this and by golly we'll finish it.

there are also ways to reach out other successful kickstarter to mention you in an update and such. maybe reach out to chris avellone, sawyer, etc on twitter. go to wasteland 3's inexile campaign, pillars dedfire etc, larian, etc. research those minor celebrity developers and try to get them mention your project.

they usually tweet/mention interesting projects in their social media page or whatever and in result draw a decent amount of attention.

 

[Ruchy]

This looks very promising so it is a shame the kickstarter doesn't seem to have legs, saying that I have not pledged either because I'm a cheap pessimist.

We understand the hesitation on the part of the consumer, but do check us out again next year when we're in a more complete state. We're in this project for the long haul... the guys and I have personality invested our lives into making this and by golly we'll finish it.

Ok I have pledged $25, you convinced me.

 

[Abu Antar]

This is probably a question you already got, but if the Kickstarter campaign fails, what do you have up your sleeve? Will you continue development or abandon the projrct?

 

[ArchAngel]

This is probably a question you already got, but if the Kickstarter campaign fails, what do you have up your sleeve? Will you continue development or abandon the projrct?

They already said couple of times that KS is to make the game better, they got the money to make a smaller version.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[daveyd]

This is probably a question you already got, but if the Kickstarter campaign fails, what do you have up your sleeve? Will you continue development or abandon the projrct?

They already said couple of times that KS is to make the game better, they got the money to make a smaller version.

I have to wonder then, why the hell did they set the KS goal so high? If they're definitely going to make the game anyway wouldn't it be better to have an extra $20K than get nothing because you can't raise $100K?

This is an unpopular opinion but you might want to contact Fig people. It helped the Consortium guys when their KS was going badly and they switched to Fig mid campaign and managed to get funding they needed through Fig.

I'm thinking this would be a good move... Although perhaps Critical Forge should wait until they are ready to release a playable demo. But it is clear that barring some miracle (like Obsidian, inXile, Larian, HBS and all major RPG crowdfunders giving them a shoutout) there's just no way they're going to reach their KS goal. Fig would probably give them a lot more visibility considering they only run one or two campaigns at a time and then Fargo and Feargus would probably want to help promote it.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm thinking this would be a good move... Although perhaps Critical Forge should wait until they are ready to release a playable demo. But it is clear that barring some miracle (like Obsidian, inXile, Larian, HBS and all major RPG crowdfunders giving them a shoutout) there's just no way they're going to reach their KS goal. Fig would probably give them a lot more visibility considering they only run one or two campaigns at a time and then Fargo and Feargus would probably want to help promote it.

Well they have a demo they let people play at live events.

 

[CritiestBunny]

I have to wonder then, why the hell did they set the KS goal so high? If they're definitely going to make the game anyway wouldn't it be better to have an extra $20K than get nothing because you can't raise $100K?

Eh... we had a long internal debate about that. It may have made more business sense to just set the goal low and take the money and run with it as pre-sales, but the thing is... when we actually broke down the numbers 20k or even 50k wasn't quite enough to allow us to incorporate the enhancements we had in mind. Even at our lowest estimates, that amount would only afford a few extra models, a slightly expanded FX list and maybe a slightly longer runway for our production - but those enhancements would basically be small almost negligible things that we decided to shoot for the amount that would allow us to deliver substance over tiny increments.

Sure, it may have been the arrogant, foolhardy, and nonsensical thing to do, but we have always approached this project from the beginning as something we wanted to do right. This was never a cash grab and we felt that just taking the smaller amount was basically that. We wanted to foster goodwill and a reputation, not just grab the quick bucks and run - if that were the case we wouldn't have done this sort of game.

We just had a chance to answer a few questions with ScouseGamer88 and maybe that might shed more light into our decisions and our process.

http://scousegamer88.com/2017/04/03/questions-for-igor-tanzil/

We are in some cases idealists... but we are also pragmatists and while those ideals may be at odds, we have always put the game and the studio team before ourselves.

 

[daveyd]

I have to wonder then, why the hell did they set the KS goal so high? If they're definitely going to make the game anyway wouldn't it be better to have an extra $20K than get nothing because you can't raise $100K?

Eh... we had a long internal debate about that. It may have made more business sense to just set the goal low and take the money and run with it as pre-sales, but the thing is... when we actually broke down the numbers 20k or even 50k wasn't quite enough to allow us to incorporate the enhancements we had in mind. Even at our lowest estimates, that amount would only afford a few extra models, a slightly expanded FX list and maybe a slightly longer runway for our production - but those enhancements would basically be small almost negligible things that we decided to shoot for the amount that would allow us to deliver substance over tiny increments.

Sure, it may have been the arrogant, foolhardy, and nonsensical thing to do, but we have always approached this project from the beginning as something we wanted to do right. This was never a cash grab and we felt that just taking the smaller amount was basically that. We wanted to foster goodwill and a reputation, not just grab the quick bucks and run - if that were the case we wouldn't have done this sort of game.

We just had a chance to answer a few questions with ScouseGamer88 and maybe that might shed more light into our decisions and our process.

http://scousegamer88.com/2017/04/03/questions-for-igor-tanzil/

We are in some cases idealists... but we are also pragmatists and while those ideals may be at odds, we have always put the game and the studio team before ourselves.

I can appreciate that perspective, but just realistically the amount of indie RPGs that managed to surpass $100K is very small. I do want you guys to be able to make the game you envision... I know there's still a month left on the KS but success would require a huge degree of exposure and gaming news sites will not cover KS from non-famous developers if it looks like the goal will not be met. I hope you do approach Fig about running a campaign there.

 

[ChasinTheTrane]

That is quite a large goal for a Kickstarter, especially a relatively niche genre -- wishing you luck!

 

[daveyd]

I'm thinking this would be a good move... Although perhaps Critical Forge should wait until they are ready to release a playable demo. But it is clear that barring some miracle (like Obsidian, inXile, Larian, HBS and all major RPG crowdfunders giving them a shoutout) there's just no way they're going to reach their KS goal. Fig would probably give them a lot more visibility considering they only run one or two campaigns at a time and then Fargo and Feargus would probably want to help promote it.

Well they have a demo they let people play at live events.

True, but that doesn't help the majority of would-be backers who cannot attend those events. I assume the build isn't yet stable enough to let people download and run on their own system yet.. but having a playable demo that anyone who visits the KS would be a big help in convincing people who are on the fence to back it, and perhaps convince current backers to up their pledge.

 

[CritiestBunny]

We just updated the Kickstarter page with a showcase of some of our magic visual effects: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/criticalforge/forged-of-blood/posts/1851975

The other 4 Primordials are still in production but you can catch a glimpse of it in the bottom video towards the end. Some of the effects are a little strong and end up covering the other ones but we'll revamp it once the full set is done.

Going into PAX and Kickstarter we had implemented four preset spells: A fireball (area of effect fire spell), an ice trap, a debuff that saps character attributes, and a basic healing pool. We've also made a lot of big claims about what our magic system will be (what with the many combinations and all).

Well one of the biggest challenges (besides balancing and code implementation) is making sure that the different Spell Effects will work together when combined, and after that making sure that the Effect Modifiers and Global Modifiers visually do what we intend them to do. So our VFX gal has been working on the other effects now and we've got a selection of different effects for both the drain and expel Thermal Primordials. The video below shows how the FX will look when cast and the residual effect that is left on the tile if the spell calls for it. We then merged 5 random effects together as you would when making a spell.

Five Effects cast in a single Thermal Drain spell

Five Effects cast in a single Thermal Expell spell


Finally, our latest episode of the Dev Talk series covers a little bit more on the Magic and where we got our inspiration from.