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TBS Any medieval wargame to recommend?

Galdred

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Not much to add. I'm looking for a medieval wargame, either tactical (skirmish might work too, but I'd rather have a larger scale), or larger.
There are a lot of fantasy strategy games, and several ancient wargames, but I have not found much between 500 and 1500 AD.

I would also like a strategy game that would represent chevauchees and raid/siege warfare well (with less emphasis on large battles).
For the latter, PC, iOS, or cardboard would all be ok (but I'd rather have something that plays on a computer).
 

Raghar

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Medieval TW. And Medieval 2 TW. Rome II charlamaigne expansion. CKII.

Stronghold Crusader II
The Kings’ Crusade
King Arthur the roleplaying wargame
 
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KoolNoodles

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Medieval 2 + Expansion + Stainless Steel probably for grand strategy goodness + tactical battles all rolled into one game.

Crusader Kings 2 for a better strategic/political game, but you don't see little armored knights butchering each other.

Stronghold Crusader for a purely RTS tactical game all about sieges(for the most part) that's pretty fun. HD remake on Steam for $10 that's not bad if you like them graphics. Other iterations after Stronghold/Crusader original have better graphics but somehow worse game play.

Everything else out there is pretty aggressively "meh".
 

Neanderthal

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Its fantasy but set in a kind of late medieval/renaissance period setting so might qualify: Warhammer: Shadow o the Horned Rat an Dark Omen. First ones bigger, more ambitious an reactive but hampered by a shit UI that'll take hours to get used to, trick is to use mini map instead o view screen. Second ones a better UI, stronger gameplay an refined mechanics but less strategy as you don't hav to financially manage your merc company any more, an theres less variety o missions an paths.

Both good though, Total War ripped em off if you asks me.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Castles 2 is the best medieval strategy game ever created. Designing the castle is the core gameplay component of any medieval title.

Stronghold comes close, but rts w/pause > rts. Also, Castles 2 was funnier.
 

Serus

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As people posted, there are many strategy games, not so much when it comes to wargames i'm afraid. In general anything after Antiquity and before ~18th century is not very well covered in wargame genre.
The strategy games mentioned above set in medieval era are mostly "fantasy without magic or monsters" (and that partially includes unmodded total war games) kind of games when it comes to historical accuracy. Some mods for medieval total war games could be an exception. CK 2 is partially historical area.

I am yet to see a realistic historical game about medieval (or early modern) siege warfare for exemple - and when i say realistic and historical i mean the exact opposite of games like Stronghold. Nothing against the latter series of games, Strongholds are fine but they are building/economy/rts thingies, not trying or implying to be historical in any way.
Not a single game i ever saw tried it in a serious manner. I'd love to try to for example siege/defend Constantinople in 15th century or wage a siege warfare in 17th century western Europe, trying to blockade, position trebuchets/artillery, bombard, of defend, set counter-fire and order sorties, etc... Nothing like that was ever made to my knoweldge. :(
 

Galdred

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I played almost all the games listed there, but I was looking for a wargame indeed.
Something like that, but in the middle age :

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Galdred

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Ancient and Medieval Slitherine games.
Don't know if any of those are worth asking price.
Among all the Slitherine games, very few are middle age wargame : I only found the field of glory ones.
HISTORY Great Battles Medieval is a sequence of real time battles, Conquest: Medieval Realms is a simple abstract game that could as well be about penguin fighting kittens.
I don't know anything about the field of glory series. I think it was a miniature game ported to PC, but that's about it.

I also found this :
Vengeance from HPS :
vngss03lg.jpg


Unfortunately, nothing that deals with chevauchees on a strategic scale, which was the topic that interested me the most (raid and siege based warfare, with an emphasis on avoiding large pitched battles).
 
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Dominions 4 is high fantasy, but it does have raiding as an activity clearly distinct from normal conquest. And depending on your and your current opponent's nations and their strengths and weaknesses, your best approach might just be that focus on raids and sieges, avoid pitched battles.
 

valcik

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Krzyżacy (Knights of the Cross; FreeMind software, 2001)

Polish turn-based game. Lovely 2D graphics with pre-rendered backgrounds and fully animated sprites rendered from 3D models, great medieval music, decent single-player campaign either for Polish or German side. You can upgrade your units and provide new equipment to them, forming elite core of your army. None resources management with exception of money paid for killing your enemies - just place your troops on map and you're good to go. There are some big battles in the game which can be tedious a little, I had a lot of fun with it though.

Z1w8sDP.jpg
 

Beowulf

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There is always this, however I didn't try it on the modern machines, so don't know how easy (or hard) it is to run.
http://af.gog.com/game/lords_of_the_realm_royal_edition?as=1649904300
http://store.steampowered.com/app/397350/

It's basicaly what TW wants to be - TB on strategic layer (somewhat bare-bones economy and diplomacy) and RTT during battles. It was quite fun back in the day, but I'm looking through pink tinted glasses.


And there is this series:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/202860/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/46350

I have played only the latest instalment - The Northern Crusades. It plays RTwP on strategic map, when you can move in theory move freely, but are guided from story mission to mission. The battles play like poor clone of Total War series (the old ones, mind you). There is abundance of HDR and bloom to make up for the production values. Overall it resembles Mount&Blade series with TW like battle control. But, alas, as you can see from the user reviews - it's chock full of bugs and can get quite choppy. Also, if you don't play the way designers want you to, you can get into a fail-state that requires a save game from several hour prior.
 
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Galdred

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There is always this, however I didn't try it on the modern machines, so don't know how easy (or hard) it is to run.
http://af.gog.com/game/lords_of_the_realm_royal_edition?as=1649904300
http://store.steampowered.com/app/397350/

It's basicaly what TW wants to be - TB on strategic layer (somewhat bare-bones economy and diplomacy) and RTT during battles. It was quite fun back in the day, but I'm looking through pink tinted glasses.


And there is this series:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/202860/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/46350

I have played only the latest instalment - The Northern Crusades. It plays RTwP on strategic map, when you can move in theory move freely, but are guided from story mission to mission. The battles play like poor clone of Total War series (the old ones, mind you). There is abundance of HDR and bloom to make up for the production values. Overall it resembles Mount&Blade series with TW like battle control. But, alas, as you can see from the user reviews - it's chock full of bugs and can get quite choppy. Also, if you don't play the way designers want you to, you can get into a fail-state that requires a save game from several hour prior.
I played LOTR a little and LOTR 2 to death. The micro management is a bit too heavy for me these days (especially with the worker cycling over the year in LOTR2). I had more fun with that than the TW series indeed. The castle assaults were glorious. I will give the 1st one another try.
I also played the Norhtern crusades series, but the economy was quite weird iirc (with cheap rabble being more cost effective than anything else).
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Are the Field of Glory games good?

It's a multiplayer game, not single player. It's very casual and quick, too.

It was a lot of fun back in the day, and there was a very active community. However, Slitherine neglected FoG and the community withered a lot. Slitherine is releasing a major update "soon", so perhaps things will heat up again. You can check out the Slitherine forums.
 

Galdred

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Slitherine has made a new version of Field of Glory. Not sure about how it plays, but it has an AI.
I found a review of Vengeance:
REVIEW: VENGEANCE
BY JIM COBB 03 APR 2017 2
REVIEW: VENGEANCE
Released
Developer: Digital Gameworks
Genre: Turn-Based Strategy
Available from:
Direct
Reviewed on: PC

Jeff Lapkoff of Digital Gameworks is known for taking small but well-known battles such as Custer’s Last Stand, The Alamo and Rorke’s Drift and turning a new light of them with innovative mechanics. With Vengeance published by HPS, he takes on a millennia of battles covering the Dark Ages through the Renaissance. His only competition in turn-based gaming covering all of this period is Slitherine’s Field of Glory and John Tiller’s The Renaissance. Let’s do a comparison.

How Much Does Splash Matter?

Vengeance’s terrain graphics can be summed up in a phrase: shades of brown. Each of the twenty meter hexes have a different shade of brown – with the exception of the snow and ice in the Battle of the Ice - indicating elevation or vegetation. Scanty lines indicate simple grass and thick swirls indicate forests. Rivers are simple bold lines and roads are mere strings of dots. The waters around coasts are a nice blue while splashes of red appear on the ground when units are destroyed. These graphics do not approach the detailed bright graphics of the other two games but, once play has begun, the simplicity actually is a positive as players are not distracted by eye candy. Structures are well done when important to play. For example, a bridge exists in the Sterling Bridge scenario, unlike the scene in Braveheart (Note to Mel Gibson: I don’t care how many Oscars you got: get facts right!)

vhstngszout.jpg


The picture brightens literally when unit icons are considered. Players can choose between boardgame counters or miniature-type icons. Each group or tribe has a different color on the counter with strength and morale values under a colorful silhouette of the combat type. The icons are faux 3D with the same colors and a simple figure of archers, swordsmen, spearmen, mounted knights and early cannon. Leaders have actual portraits on their counters. A side panel has nice illustrations of units’ coats of arms, weapons and armor. With no animation, the unit graphics are not as sexy as the ones in Field of Glory and The Renaissance. Sound effects are also lacking with only swishes to indicate arrow flights, thumps for hand-to-hand combat and trumpets for routs or rally attempts. The wind blowing in the background becomes irritating. The 49-page PDF manual does a fine job in describing the details of play.

Grouping the Mob

Where Vengeance shines and distinguishes itself is its great combination of detail and ease of play. Its 42 battles begin with two probably mythic battles featuring King Arthur in the sixth century. The verifiable clashes begin in the tenth century as the Saxons unite England. From there, the game covers all of Europe and the Mediterranean basin. Teutonic knights and Slavs battle in the Baltic region; Crusaders fight their up-and-down campaigns in the Holy Land. Scotland is the scene for many medieval battles as is France during the Hundred Years War. In the Renaissance, the scene shifts to Northern Italy where France, Spain, the Papacy, the Holy Roman Empire and various Italian city-states make sure Italy can’t unite for another three hundred years. Vlad Dracula battles the Turks while the English attempt national suicide during the War of the Roses. Formidable Swiss mercenaries make their appearance in the fifteenth century. The research into so many battles in terms of terrain, weapons and army status is impressive. Field of Glory probably has more medieval battles and The Renaissance has many more Renaissance fights, not to mention a branched campaign mode. However, neither combines both periods.

vstrlng.jpg


Units represent either twenty men or single leaders, The side panel has the usual values of strength, morale, action points, class and status along with the formation the unit is in. Units must be in its leader’s command range to be effective. Combat losses are shown in an on-screen log and anticipated results from close combat are shown at the bottom of the screen. Weather and terrain affects movement and combat. Combat effects are the common strength loss, disruption, rout and destroyed. So far, this game seems same-o, same-o. That conclusion is misleading.

All three games mentioned have many units. Moving and issuing orders to these troops individually is tedious. Lapkoff solved this problem elegantly and historically accurately. Troops are placed in groups as they were in the real battles. Usually, three “battles” are the norm but some scenarios have less and Renaissance battles have artillery as their own group. The side panel allows nine orders to be given to each battle group: advance, fall back, rally, hold, fire, charge, attack regroup and change formation. In addition, each group has standing orders on how they can attack, counterattack and react to missile fire. Thus, hundreds of men can be moved and engaged with just a few clicks. When lines meet, players have the option of ordering single units to maximize close combat odds. Games that would take hours under the normal mechanics can be done in forty-five minutes.

vspnarty.jpg


Combat details are fascinating. Groups can adopt the formations of close order, open order, shield wall or skirmish. Cavalry can be ordered to charge only to be mauled by caltrops. The rate of fire for archers depends on their skill so English longbow men can fire twice per turn while others only once. Cannon can take two or three turns to reload. Army morale checks are made after each side’s segment with possible results of men deserting and wings breaking. A battle report can be brought up to view the situation. Units can go berserk and charge madly, inflicting more damage but breaking formation. Battles are over when one side drops to its surrender point.

The AI is what the player makes it. At the beginning of the game, players chose the AI to be balanced, aggressive, cautious or “chaotic” meaning it can switch between cautious and aggressive at its whim. Players can also change weather, breaking point, visibility and leader replacement before beginning the battle. The game can be played solo, hotseat, PBEM or over the ‘Net.

With the 1.0.2.1 update, new vistas have opened. The Battle Planner allows not only editing of existing battles (like giving the French a break at Pavia) but also to create their own battles. St. Albans during the War of the Roses springs to mind. Anybody with imagination and a few sources can go wild.

Vengeance is an innovative and entertaining game that captures the essence of a period. To use a single engine to track the evolution of tactics over a thousand years while keeping play simple is an accomplishment that needs more attention. Head on over to the digital Gameworks or HPS websites and get ready to enjoy.

It doesn't seem to feature campaigns and sieges, though :(
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
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Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There is always this, however I didn't try it on the modern machines, so don't know how easy (or hard) it is to run.
http://af.gog.com/game/lords_of_the_realm_royal_edition?as=1649904300
http://store.steampowered.com/app/397350/

It's basicaly what TW wants to be - TB on strategic layer (somewhat bare-bones economy and diplomacy) and RTT during battles. It was quite fun back in the day, but I'm looking through pink tinted glasses.


And there is this series:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/202860/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/46350

I have played only the latest instalment - The Northern Crusades. It plays RTwP on strategic map, when you can move in theory move freely, but are guided from story mission to mission. The battles play like poor clone of Total War series (the old ones, mind you). There is abundance of HDR and bloom to make up for the production values. Overall it resembles Mount&Blade series with TW like battle control. But, alas, as you can see from the user reviews - it's chock full of bugs and can get quite choppy. Also, if you don't play the way designers want you to, you can get into a fail-state that requires a save game from several hour prior.
The Dos gog version of LOTR works a lot better than the CD one.

The sieges in LOTR are the best I have ever seen in a computer game.
Siege allocation screen:
23-KuZA6O0.png



Siege preparation
On the North and Left are the trebuchets
close to the walls, on the north are the siege towers, and on the right, the ladder.
The guys are obviously your troops
14-2GEXDmC.png


Siege result
15-JbE5YSd.png


It is a pity the sieges in this game have never been equaled, even by its sequel. In all other games, sieges boils down to do blockade and wait for the garrison to starve while building siege engines or assault the castle.

The game even lets you design your castle wall by wall:

3-H9KrpTO.png


Unfortunately, the game suffers from way too much micromanagement and a very long mop up phase (and the battles are not as fun as in the sequel, but they are also more balanced).

Regarding Castles 2, they went completely over the top with trying to nerf defense: you only get half of your army while defending, which makes it more efficient to abandon and retake provinces, negating the whole castle building idea.
It is such a shame, because it does not make any sense, and can get pretty frustating, while the game itself is really great.

LOTR plays like a no nonsense proto Total War. The tactical gameplay is rather similar (soldiers grouped in units arrayed in rectangular formations, units can rout before the battle end). But the UI is horrible (as soon as you issue an order, the unit is unselected), and there is no deployment phase (good luck if your bowmen start in front of the opponent knights).
But the real problem is the amount of micromanagement needed for your economy.
Reshuffling workers every season in every county gets old pretty quickly.

It is a shame LOTR 2 was dumbed down (the easier economic micromanagement was welcome, though, but the battles became RTS stupid, and the sieges even more), and Stronghold even more.
 
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sser

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Are the Field of Glory games good?

It's a multiplayer game, not single player. It's very casual and quick, too.

It was a lot of fun back in the day, and there was a very active community. However, Slitherine neglected FoG and the community withered a lot. Slitherine is releasing a major update "soon", so perhaps things will heat up again. You can check out the Slitherine forums.

Have you tried the card game? (I'm assuming it's a physical box.)

Edit: also, here are two quasi-medieval strategy games I have on my Steam wishlist; haven't tried either one but they have generally good reviews:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/508300/Strategy__Tactics_Dark_Ages/

http://store.steampowered.com/app/428610/Longsword__Tabletop_Tactics/
 
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