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Mods from the perspective of people who never use mods

Jazz_

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Because playing the game in its original state adds to the atmosphere of a 20 year old game and reminds you that you're playing a 20 year old game, because that's part of the atmosphere.

Playing that game in ''its original state'' means running that game on obsolete hardware because it was designed for that hardware. And if anything mods that fix the resolution for new displays bring your experience closer to that ''original state''.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Because playing the game in its original state adds to the atmosphere of a 20 year old game and reminds you that you're playing a 20 year old game, because that's part of the atmosphere.

Playing that game in ''its original state'' means running that game on obsolete hardware because it was designed for that hardware. And if anything mods that fix the resolution for new displays bring your experience closer to that ''original state''.

As I've already said [this will be the second time] if the mod just makes the game playable on new hardware then that's not really a mod, that's just trying to make the game physically playable. The intention isn't to change the game. Fallout works perfectly fine even from an old disc on windows 7.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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The only games I've ever used mods with significantly are Morrowind & Oblivion. Morrowind just a few tweaks which made a great game better (mods such as the deeper dialogue one), Oblivion in an attempt to salvage some form of decent game out if the trash it was.
Most of the time I think they're too much faffing about. Also, along with patches, they're way too convenient a fall back for devs to be lazy and leave sorting stuff to gamers.
They definitely add replayability though.

I know, it's amazing isn't it, how you can go 20+ years playing computer games and never once get the urge to tinker with any of them! What absurdity! What madness!
 

Outlander

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Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There are mods and mods.

Good luck playing Fallout 1 without the high resolution mod. I mean, you can, but why the fuck would you want to do that?

Because playing the game in its original state adds to the atmosphere of a 20 year old game and reminds you that you're playing a 20 year old game, because that's part of the atmosphere.

Not that there was any confirmation needed, but you are now officially a retard.
 

Jazz_

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As I've already said [this will be the second time] if the mod just makes the game playable on new hardware then that's not really a mod, that's just trying to make the game physically playable. The intention isn't to change the game. I didn't use the phrase "original state" in the post you quoted, so I've no idea why you're using it as an argument. Fallout works perfectly fine even from an old disc on windows 7.

Dude, I just explained it to you, if you run a game intended for a crt monitor from the mid 90s on a new display you are getting a crappier experience because of resolution/aspect ratio discrepancies, so mods address that, your ''purity'' argument doesn't make sense in this case. Also the point of a mod is not to rescue shitty devs from their shortcomings as you think, most people use mods on already great games to make them better, financial constraints and development times necessarily force devs to make compromises and rush things out here and there, so mods can always improve/restore/add content and features that make the experience better. Plus, there are mods that change the gameplay drasticly and give players new challenges and entirely new experiences so what the fuck is the point of being narrow minded about them?
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Dude, I just explained it to you, if you run a game intended for a crt monitor from the mid 90s on a new display you are getting a crappier experience because of resolution/aspect ratio differences, so mods address that, your ''purity'' argument doesn't make sense.

Aspect ratio would effect full screen, not windowed. I get what you're saying though, I really do, I'm just saying there's no need for those things to play the games. Sorry if that offends you. The guy specifically said a "high resolution" mod, now, I have no idea about the specifics of Fallout's High res mod, obviously, and the guy didn't elaborate on it, so I'm assuming a high res mod makes the game have more pixels than the original, specifically changing the look of the game. If that's not what it does, then we're talking at cross-purposes anyway.

Also the point of a mod is not to rescue shitty devs from their shortcomings as you think, most people use mods on already great games to make them better, financial constraints and development times force devs to make compromises and rush things out here and there, so mods can improve/add stuff and features that make the experience better. Plus, there are mods that change the gameplay drasticly and give players new challenges and new experiences so what the fuck is the point of being narrow minded about them?

This paragraph is just ranting. I'm not being narrow minded about them, I'm providing the perspective of someone who's never needed or bothered with mods who's fed up of forums always being overrun by modders who begin and finish every fucking debate with "mods you need" "mods fixed that" when never in my entire life have I used or needed mods and when the specific point of criticism is to criticise the original product, not the obscure offspring of some crazy modder's 20 years later re-imagining of the game.

In no other medium do people fuck around with their media like they do with computer games. Some aspiring artist doesn't 'improve' the Mona Lisa. An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart. An aspiring film director doesn't 'improve' their old movies [oh, right, wait...], An aspiring author doesn't 'improve' someone else's book [they tried that with the Bible, and that really helped a lot...].

As I said before [this is now the second time] you can perpetually 'improve' a game, from here to eternity, but at some point you will be playing the version you're playing. IMO, the 'ideal' [read, not 'best', not 'purest', just "ideal"] version will be whichever one comes with the version you acquire. The idea that purchasing/acquiring a game merely represents the first stage out of many before you sit down and play the thing is, to me, absurd. To find replay value in increasing the breast size of NPCs is, to me, utterly absurd.

And you might well think that mods have nothing to do with lazy/incompetent, whatever, devs, but modding has the duel effect of making devs care less about their content, ie: more likely to provide dull templates, but also care less about day one bugs/balance and everything else.

The reason why I'll replay a game has nothing to do with if someone has tweaked some minor shit or replaced some sprites with other sprites, the reason I'll replay a game is because I enjoy the gameplay. Changing the Pong blocks to penises will not make me have a greater desire to replay Pong, having a desire to knock a pixelated ball about again is what'll motivate me to replay pong, and it doesn't matter if its in 1080p or 360p, I'll want to play the same 'version' of Pong I always played, because that's the game that I'm thinking about when I decide to replay Pong.

Take Serpents in the Staglands. That game had tuns of patches. I can't remember how far they got, maybe up to the late 20s, I honestly can't remember and they might still be patching it to this day, but I downloaded it a month or two after release with patch number 13 or whatever and it played fine, I had no real issues to speak of in that regard and when I feel like replaying it in 5/10 years time I'll play the version I already have downloaded, because it plays fine and it's the version I know and remember, it's the version I'll be thinking about when I think about replaying it. Comprende?
 
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Lazing Dirk

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Here's a novel idea: People have different tastes and a single game can't possibly be a perfect match for all of them. You could ask 100 people about the same game and what they'd most like to see changed or added and get 50 different responses for 20 different aspects of the game.

Sure, you can suck it up and deal with it and just play the game how it is, but if there's a mod that you believe will increase your particular enjoyment of that game, why the fuck wouldn't you? You might as well complain about people putting new speakers in their car or taking their suit to a tailor or using ketchup for their chips.

An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart.

Yeah but I bet you've skipped songs on some albums you listen to. Bloody heathen; listen to it as the artist intended!
 

DraQ

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why-you-do-this.jpg


Am I the only person on the planet who's never used one single mod ever on any game ever?

Not one.

No tweak packs, no graphics enhancements, no balancing, no bug fixers, no sprite replacers, no hair detailer, no nude mods.

Nothing.

Ever.

It seems like every game forum on the entire net will have someone making their first post about a game be "I'm thinking of playing XYZ game, what mods do you recommend?"

And on every fucking one I just wanna type "just play the fucking game you idiot and if its crap play something else, stop using your life to dig crappy developers out of a hole all the time."

But what's the point? It's probably me that's the weird one. I'm probably the only one left who thinks that modding in XYZ 'fix' is more akin to typing in a cheat code than 'making the game better'. I bet it's all the same people who type in cheat codes automatically without even thinking about it.

Oh wow, you've converted all the sprites into naked muppets, that's, like, really cool man. What's next? You're going to convert Master of Orion into a zombie romance simulator... because you can.

I mean, if you wanted to play a different game... play a different game!

Anyway. Is it just me?

[not posted in the Workshop because... duh... everyone there will likely be a mod-nut... duh.
Are you retarded or just weak in the head?

  • Content. Do you refuse expansion packs as well? If not, what's the difference between an official expansion and unofficial content mod matching or even exceeding its quality?
  • Bug fixes. Do you refuse official patches as well? If not, how does the authorship of a patch make any difference?
  • Assorted tweaks and QoL improvements. If something itches you, do you scratch this itch or just blather about how if you didn't enjoy the body you have - itches and whatnot - you'd commit a suicide?
Do you really think that if you install your carefully selected (possibly even purist) collection of mods, St. Prosper will suddenly appear and wave his magic wang wand around, turning every character in your game into a naked animu girl with a huge sword, unnaturally coloured hair and a handful of dicks growing out of forehead?
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Here's a novel idea: People have different tastes and a single game can't possibly be a perfect match for all of them. You could ask 100 people about the same game and what they'd most like to see changed or added and get 50 different responses for 20 different aspects of the game.

Here's a novel idea: People don't generally have such an anal approach to playing games and are happy to play games that don't 100% match their perfect game scenario. You could ask 100 people what they'd like to change about a game and have a good conversation about it, but 99% of them will just be making suggestions for the sequel, they won't actually give a fuck about replaying the game 4 weeks later with a mod that increases breast size.

Sure, you can suck it up and deal with it and just play the game how it is, but if there's a mod that you believe will increase your particular enjoyment of that game, why the fuck wouldn't you? You might as well complain about people putting new speakers in their car or taking their suit to a tailor or using ketchup for their chips.

Because how would I know what mods would increase my enjoyment before playing it? [as has already been stated by many in the thread, even those who love mods], Why the fuck would you base your game playing pleasure on the recommendations of other people, who you yourself claim will, in most likelyhood, have completely different tastes to you.

I do like your comparison to tweaking cars, clothes and food though, you make a good point here, though I have to admit, I've never added speakers to a car and find car modding to be pointless as well. I've had clothes altered and added sauces to food though.

An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart.

Yeah but I bet you've skipped songs on some albums you listen to. Bloody heathen; listen to it as the artist intended!

The ability to skip content is something that devs should already be including in their games, people have been bitching about it for decades... but don't worry... mods will fix it...
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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why-you-do-this.jpg


Am I the only person on the planet who's never used one single mod ever on any game ever?

Not one.

No tweak packs, no graphics enhancements, no balancing, no bug fixers, no sprite replacers, no hair detailer, no nude mods.

Nothing.

Ever.

It seems like every game forum on the entire net will have someone making their first post about a game be "I'm thinking of playing XYZ game, what mods do you recommend?"

And on every fucking one I just wanna type "just play the fucking game you idiot and if its crap play something else, stop using your life to dig crappy developers out of a hole all the time."

But what's the point? It's probably me that's the weird one. I'm probably the only one left who thinks that modding in XYZ 'fix' is more akin to typing in a cheat code than 'making the game better'. I bet it's all the same people who type in cheat codes automatically without even thinking about it.

Oh wow, you've converted all the sprites into naked muppets, that's, like, really cool man. What's next? You're going to convert Master of Orion into a zombie romance simulator... because you can.

I mean, if you wanted to play a different game... play a different game!

Anyway. Is it just me?

[not posted in the Workshop because... duh... everyone there will likely be a mod-nut... duh.
Are you retarded or just weak in the head?

  • Content. Do you refuse expansion packs as well? If not, what's the difference between an official expansion and unofficial content mod matching or even exceeding its quality?
  • Bug fixes. Do you refuse official patches as well? If not, how does the authorship of a patch make any difference?
  • Assorted tweaks and QoL improvements. If something itches you, do you scratch this itch or just blather about how if you didn't enjoy the body you have - itches and whatnot - you'd commit a suicide?
Do you really think that if you install your carefully selected (possibly even purist) collection of mods, St. Prosper will suddenly appear and wave his magic wang wand around, turning every character in your game into a naked animu girl with a huge sword, unnaturally coloured hair and a handful of dicks growing out of forehead?

As I've already said [this is the fourth time I've said this now] I wouldn't class unofficial expansions as mods, they are just unofficial expansions. New scenarios. Same game, more content.

As I've already said [this is the second time now] I've never once needed to patch a game. official or not.

As I've already said [this is the second time now] if you like a game then you'll put up with annoying shit that you will moan about as constructive criticism for future expansions but are not motivated to bother 'fixing'. Nothing retarded about that, that's pretty much how the world works.

As for your last point... I guess that would depend on whether you've installed a mod that would do that... twat.
 

pippin

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I don't generally like mods either. Most of the times the stuff they do feels way to different. I didn't liked the added content in FO2, for instance, since it does not fit well with the rest. imo. But that could be because the game was all over the place. The thing that allows you to play BG1 with 2's engine feels like cheating. Etc. Etc. Or you could immerse yourself in a quasi autistic and never stopping quest for THE mod which goes for so long the only thing you can ask yourself is... why? (Wesp).

The only times I've felt a mod is truly useful were New Vision for Deus Ex, and the bugfixing for Arcanum. The rest, I'd say mods did nothing I liked or realized they were doing, even. I'd admit Yukichigai is nice for New Vegas, but that and jsawyer are the only content altering mods I use for the game.
 

Ash

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The rest, I'd say mods did nothing I liked or realized they were doing, even.

So you judge the collective based on a poor few. Of course there's plenty shit mods, oftentimes it's just a kid's first experimental project. If you get a good mod built by someone with good game design understanding and sensibilities, well, sometimes the best things in life can be free. In the world of modding, there is plenty high quality works that are free.
 

pippin

Guest
The logic of trying mods for games only works for games that are kinda unique in what they offer (like Mount and Blade); if you are going to mod a game to hell and back then you might be wanting it to be another thing entirely, then you might want to look for another game instead?
 

Ash

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The logic of trying mods for games only works for games that are kinda unique in what they offer (like Mount and Blade); if you are going to mod a game to hell and back then you might be wanting it to be another thing entirely, then you might want to look for another game instead?

Very few mods make a game another thing entirely, and those that come close (Total Conversions) are basically free new games with a similar style to the game it was built on. Don't be an ignorant tool, don't throw your garbage ill-informed opinion around and actually try mods. Good ones. Every old game I revisit the first thing I do is look for mods. And they often make a classic even better, truly destroying modern counterparts. If you're worried about the game being turned into a different thing entirely, go for mods that respect the original design principles and try to be faithful. Most good mods are just that. Straight upgrades as if it were made by the developer itself, or fan missions that were as if the developer had released a good expansion pack. Sometimes, even, the developers make their own mods, like JSawyer or Romero's Doom maps.

Anyway, anyone that opposes mods from anything other than a business standpoint is a fucking ignorant tool and not worth arguing with. Free content that makes the best of games even better, or adds new content is not worth your time? Thread is for the dogs.
 
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Beastro

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But what's the point? It's probably me that's the weird one. I'm probably the only one left who thinks that modding in XYZ 'fix' is more akin to typing in a cheat code than 'making the game better'. I bet it's all the same people who type in cheat codes automatically without even thinking about it.

Those moment when you feel that a little change here or there would make a game far more enjoyable, or at least slightly less annoying, well mods give you that.

Yes you can use them to outright cheat, but it's up to you on if you want to do that.

I try every game without mods first. In RPGs, I've only used them sparingly, except in Arcanum or Morrowind.

Except Bethesda games. I've even waited a few weeks to play them so modders had some time to release fixes for the typical annoying shit their games have before I start one up.

Non-RPG, I do the same for Paradox and Creative Assembly games. I absolutely refuse to play the vanilla of those three company's games unless it's going back to play Daggerfall for Beth.
 
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octavius

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I remember playing Bard's Tale 3 25 years ago, and rage quitting when I discovered is was buggy as hell.
More than 20 years later I completed the game when a modder made a patch that fixed the bugs. Sometimes playing a modded version of a game is the smart thing to do.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But what's the point? It's probably me that's the weird one. I'm probably the only one left who thinks that modding in XYZ 'fix' is more akin to typing in a cheat code than 'making the game better'. I bet it's all the same people who type in cheat codes automatically without even thinking about it.
Cheats are generally supposed to make the game easier, what if I want mods to do the opposite? Because I find vanilla (patched or not) New Vegas almost unplayable, partly because of the horrible UI (mods for which might not be mods by your definition) but also because you can't die unless you go afk in the middle of a fight, if I want combat to be a more difficult and faster that's cheating?

Also what about mods made by the game devs? Sawyer has made a New Vegas mod that I'm pretty sure he said is how he wanted the game to be ultimately but it couldn't be done officially because of how fucked patching a game with multiple DLC is and NV development ended anyway. What then? It's part of the original dev's vision for the game. Or is the 1.00 NV with game-breaking bugs the only true version because that's how it was out of the box?
 

McPlusle

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I like mods, but I don't use them very often. I never use them on games that I haven't yet played in their vanilla state, with exceptions for fan patches that exclusively fix bugs.
 

SniperHF

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Take Serpents in the Staglands. That game had tuns of patches. I can't remember how far they got, maybe up to the late 20s, I honestly can't remember and they might still be patching it to this day, but I downloaded it a month or two after release with patch number 13 or whatever and it played fine, I had no real issues to speak of in that regard and when I feel like replaying it in 5/10 years time I'll play the version I already have downloaded, because it plays fine and it's the version I know and remember, it's the version I'll be thinking about when I think about replaying it. Comprende?

Some of the other....stuff.... aside I pretty much agree with this. There's a tendency among some groups of players to either want the "one true experience" that must be as perfect as possible or have had a few specific experiences with mods/patches greatly improving a specific game. But in that case they tend to get stuck in that thought process of thinking it's a big improvement when it's really minimal in most cases. So they ask for the mods all the time. In terms of patches not being as big a deal as people make them....I'm reminded of a certain Pillars review on this site from last week :M


But otherwise it's totally justifiable to check into what mods offer beforehand (though google is nice...)
Especially for playability reasons like widescreen mods, control mods, some UI mods, or whatever.
 

Dev_Anj

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Some aspiring artist doesn't 'improve' the Mona Lisa. An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart. An aspiring film director doesn't 'improve' their old movies [oh, right, wait...], An aspiring author doesn't 'improve' someone else's book [they tried that with the Bible, and that really helped a lot...].
Oh right, people have never repainted art pieces according to their interpretations, never remade or spoofed movies, never remixed music, and never rewrote books.

Wait, no. They do that, all the damn time. Here, let me just show you some redrawings of Mona Lisa: link . Checkmate!
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Some aspiring artist doesn't 'improve' the Mona Lisa. An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart. An aspiring film director doesn't 'improve' their old movies [oh, right, wait...], An aspiring author doesn't 'improve' someone else's book [they tried that with the Bible, and that really helped a lot...].
Oh right, people have never repainted art pieces according to their interpretations, never remade or spoofed movies, never remixed music, and never rewrote books.

Wait, no. They do that, all the damn time. Here, let me just show you some redrawings of Mona Lisa: link . Checkmate!

I don't see any of those redrawings hanging in the Louvre and being visited by people time and again ;)

the real checkmate.
 

Falksi

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In relation to mods & patches I can see why both have thier place, so this isn't a comment on whether they do/don't belong.

What I will say though is that, from my own personal POV as a gamer reared very much in the 80's on arcades & consoles, it's fucking shocking how much both patches & mods are used as a crutch for modern games now. And how unfinished some games are on release.

I never buy a game new now for this very reason. Not because I won't pay full price, I glady would for a finished product, but because I know 99% of the time it'll be at least 6 month to a year before the game is at a remotely finished stage. Christ The Witcher 3 has been sucked off from every angle possible, and you couldn't even walk properly in it until a few patches later.
 

Jacob

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
In no other medium do people fuck around with their media like they do with computer games. Some aspiring artist doesn't 'improve' the Mona Lisa. An aspiring composer doesn't 'improve' Mozart. An aspiring film director doesn't 'improve' their old movies [oh, right, wait...], An aspiring author doesn't 'improve' someone else's book [they tried that with the Bible, and that really helped a lot...].
what the fuck is this gay comparison with artz, also it just shows how much you know about art (i.e. next to nothing)
 

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