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Bioshock - this is a spoiler thread. deal with it

Gay-Lussac

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You know I was actually enjoying it up until the plot twist (finding out you're ryan's son). If the game ended right there, it would have been far better. But no the damn thing drags on for ages with you using the same old plasmids against the same old enemies. That hacking minigame was starting to make me go insane by the end of the game.

By the way what a fucking disappointing ending. I kept on playing just to see it and when I see it it turns out to crap.
 
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this is a spoiler thread. deal with it.

yeah its really a shame. levine even admitted somewhere that bioshock failed as a story in the second half after ryan. he also talked about stupid stories being needed for games to be commercial successes. these topics have been discussed before around here.

myself i just finished it on hard without using vita chambers. i barely did any hacking; i just bought out (you have a ridiculously low money cap and nothing to spend it on) or used hacking tools, which you can invent buttloads of with the right tonics. tbh i pretty much forgot about the plasmids unless circumstances absolutely demanded it. i think i beat the end boss and still had all my eve hypos and a full eve bar.

personally i think it would have been awesome if you had to actually go kill yourself at the end of the game because of fontaine's control right after killing your father. of course, this would have been too much of a downer for the masses. personally, i think there are some hints in the latter part of the game that point to the portion after killing ryan being thrown together more quickly and with less care than the parts leading up to the climax.

for instance, it the turning into a big daddy mechanic doesnt seem fully fleshed out; should have been gnarly quake 4 style surgery required, and its referenced over and over and over again how turning into a big daddy is a one way street, but all you do is collect parts, despite seeing gruesome devices for building big daddys (the suits are supposed to be welded to the flesh, the voice box has a gnarly looking thing that should go down your throat instead of just spinning when you grab the voice box). and then after youre all turned into a big daddy, your arm is still wearing a sweater and has no gloves... which are lying around in a room where the big daddys are made and look as if they were intended to be worn. and of course, by the endings, no reference is made that you are permanently a big daddy.

why can successful movies end with downers (layer cake, memento, sin city to an extent, im sure theres more) but not video games? off the top of my head i cant even really think of a game with a bad ending for protagonist you play as (ok, uh, vtmb and fallouts probably more?).

as previously mentioned around here there were some early builds of bioshock that were super in depth but were cut because they werent suitable for casual games - having you play through the new years massacre, for one thing. what i would really have liked was to have toured rapture in its hey day when everything was pristine. they put so much effort into the art deco and setting that i was genuinely saddened to see it go so fucked up.
 
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Occasionally Fatal said:
this is a spoiler thread. deal with it.

Yeah I'm no fan of the fancy, schmancy spoiler tags either.

yeah its really a shame. levine even admitted somewhere that bioshock failed as a story in the second half after ryan.

It also started failing as a game too. Whose bright idea was it to stop introducing new enemies less than halfway through the game? Six different types of splicer and two big daddies get pretty boring after awhile. I'm hard pressed to think of an FPS with less enemy variety than Bioshock.

personally i think it would have been awesome if you had to actually go kill yourself at the end of the game because of fontaine's control right after killing your father.

Yeah. Not going to lie, cutting the game off at the time of Ryan's death would have made it a lot better. Not only would it have been far more poignant,but it would have skimmed the four extra hours of monotony that really ruined Bioshock's pacing.

personally, i think there are some hints in the latter part of the game that point to the portion after killing ryan being thrown together more quickly and with less care than the parts leading up to the climax.

Yeah. I think the lack of new items, enemies, and plasmids might have something to do with that. All we got were splicers with beefed up stats (yay level scaling?) and beefed up versions of the same plasmids.

and of course, by the endings, no reference is made that you are permanently a big daddy.

Yeah...I liked how all the reviewers who thought this was a brilliant example of storytelling in games missed the huge plothole there.

why can successful movies end with downers

I think it's probably because the movie industry itself is a lot more mature than the video game industry. Hell, movie critics actually have some clout and can say bad things about bad movies, even if a big studio is behind it. Not so with games, where the publishers control "journalists" by only releasing information to the ones who suck up the most.


Not gonna lie, I couldn't help but think that was a Torment rip-off for the longest time. Then I wised up.

but not video games?

The Codex favorite Torment doesn't exactly end on a happy note. Shadow of the Colossus comes to mind too, as do a few more obscure titles I've played.

as previously mentioned around here there were some early builds of bioshock that were super in depth but were cut because they werent suitable for casual games

I really want to believe this. I want to believe that Levine is still "one of the good guys". But I can't. I think he's pulled a Spector or a Molyneux and gone off the casual end.

they put so much effort into the art deco and setting that i was genuinely saddened to see it go so fucked up.

The art deco was really nice. I just wish they put as much effort into the gameplay.
 
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It also started failing as a game too. Whose bright idea was it to stop introducing new enemies less than halfway through the game? Six different types of splicer and two big daddies get pretty boring after awhile. I'm hard pressed to think of an FPS with less enemy variety than Bioshock.

I can only agree. In addition, even the different types of splicers look very similar - would have been nice to have more contrasting skins, weights, and heights and such (i believe one of the more recent total war games incorporated this tech to make your armies look more realistic). also would have been nice if they werent all obviously freaks. for instance, sander cohen, fontaine/atlas, and tenenbaum all look very very weird and unnatural imo, despite not being heavily spliced...

<daydreaming>
but it would have been cool to fight a female boss (odd how there are no female bosses in rapture) obsessed with her appearance who would be super hot, have hug cans, etc set in a strip club or something with stripper minions. im just throwing ideas out there. when you first meet her though, she should do something rediculously uncalled for, like kill and rape a little sister, so you realize how screwed up she is despite how she looks. </daydreaming>

Yeah...I liked how all the reviewers who thought this was a brilliant example of storytelling in games missed the huge plothole there.

Possibly they miss-interpreted the setting as the story? *shrug* I really like the setting and premise of the game. Few games lend themselves to one of these really well: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360 ... 1329/50027

I think it's probably because the movie industry itself is a lot more mature than the video game industry.

Guess we'll see in a couple years, huh? As an aside, I seem to recall some highly regard movie critics complaining that studios were starting to not send them copies to review, hoping to escape bad press, so we could see a shift towards movie critics sucking up more to get exclusives. but its a different medium so i doubt it will get as bad as the gaming industry.

Not gonna lie, I couldn't help but think memento was a Torment rip-off for the longest time. Then I wised up.

lol please elaborate (i havent finished planescape yet but dont worry about spoilers).

The Codex favorite Torment doesn't exactly end on a happy note. Shadow of the Colossus comes to mind too, as do a few more obscure titles I've played.

Ah yes, I forgot about SoC. I really really liked that game and its story, setting, etc, though I sucked ass at it. The story was interesting despite how relatively minimal it was in its portrayal. Would really like it to come to one of the newer platforms so I can play it at a decent frame rate.

I really want to believe this. I want to believe that Levine is still "one of the good guys". But I can't. I think he's pulled a Spector or a Molyneux and gone off the casual end.

heh, not too many good guys left as far as i can tell. even valve with its episodes is starting to shit out. also, i really would have liked the harvest/saving little sisters to be more graphic, traumatic, and downright disturbing. of course, if i made a game, itd probably be nc 17 or whatever, heh.
 

Longshanks

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I thought the pre-reveal game was just as bad. The increasingly artificial devices used to keep you from meeting whatsisname became extremely irritating. It was just too obvious that it was leading up to a plot twist, and took so long to get there. Each new "can't meet you now, or damn! can't reach him" moment caused much teeth grinding. Maybe the "twist is coming" feeling was so palpable because I've played System Shock 2, which had a similar twist and also used the "delay meeting the person who's guiding you" device. I haven't played SS2 in a while, but I don't think it strung you along in quite the transparent manner of Bioshock, and therefore did not irritate me at all (in fact SS2 is one of the most awesome games I've played).

The best part of the game for me was the very start, before I was bored by the gameplay or irritated by the storytelling, and still marvelling at the graphics and immersing myself in the atmosphere.

The Codex favorite Torment doesn't exactly end on a happy note. Shadow of the Colossus comes to mind too, as do a few more obscure titles I've played.
Also, Fallout.
 

ghostdog

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I'll agree about the story , it had great potential but it really started to drag after a while. Also it was ridiculous that you couldn't meet face to face with those you spoke to constantly , but it was due to the fact that the story was created during the late stages of development and they didn't even have any separate character models.

The good lady doctor standing behind a window with her back to you, obviously uses a female splicer model and Ryan's model is just a slightly reworked male splicer model, that's why the face looks like shit. Either the developers didn't have any time left to make any new faces , or they really suck at it.
 

fastpunk

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The story was almost SS2 copy-paste. And that wasn't the only things copy-pasted from SS2. But despite being derivative, repetitive and being practically an FPS, I enjoyed Bioshock. The art direction and atmosphere are brilliant and the gameplay is solid, although the interface needs some tweaking. I even enjoyed the pluming mini-game... I know, shocking! Wasn't expecting much from it but I got a lot of fun in return and I'll be playing it again sometime.
 

szoreny

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May 31, 2008
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Bioshock's carnival atmosphere really surprised me. I felt like i was in a funhouse, cued by the retarded vending machine jingles and clown-like splicers. I don't care for that angle. The designers didn't do enough with the whole 'city of geniuses' idea. Presumably most of the citizens of Rapture were experts in their fields. While I'm fine with the idea of the hired help conning them into oblivion, the late '50's kitsch and carnival shit really undermines the idea that these were once extremely intelligent people.

Could've been interesting if Irrational spent less time copying design languages verbatim from the '20's 40's and 50's and instead concentrated on the strange sorts of private aesthetics and languages a group of people totally cut off from society might develop, you know, in the productive years before the homicidal madness took wing.

nnNn...that's what bugged me the most 'throughout the game, it felt like Irrational had parts of a good idea, and while they most successfully expressed themselves w/ the games art-direction, even that didn't seem totally thought through, rather they took art-deco and mashed it against '50's kitsch maybe crossing their eyes and hoping it was weird enough to work.

It might make more sense to take issue w/ the gameplay and story - neither of which I liked particularly.....but it was the 'almost there' design of the city that galled this particular player.

And I know Rature's impossible and has every right to be fanciful, but I would've appreciated a more practical design to the city, with tighter rounded spaces and less of those soaring galleries w/ huge skylights.
 

Pegultagol

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Yes, all the weird sights and sounds probably made them all depressed and become more reliant on plasmids that much more. They do sort of gave that creepy vibe and added to the overall atmosphere, but the intent was obvious.

The architecture design and the premise of underworld confined space are well built, but the whole Rapture did not feel like it had anything to do with once a vibrant metropolis. Like szoreny said, the design cues that universally substituted 50's arto-deco style for its art direction, there are these kinds of ham-fisted directions that provided for rather drawn out and drab corridor crawling with no refreshing variety. For me, the ostensible gameplay contrivances (environments that just offered that one single opportunity to abuse certain plasmid exclusively) did little to pull me in and the scares lost its impact after the umpteenth scripted spawned Splicer.

I am sure there were many good ideas that were just cut due to time constraints. Bioshock is an overall decent game, it could have been so much better.
 

A user named cat

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Edward_R_Murrow said:
It also started failing as a game too. Whose bright idea was it to stop introducing new enemies less than halfway through the game? Six different types of splicer and two big daddies get pretty boring after awhile. I'm hard pressed to think of an FPS with less enemy variety than Bioshock.
F.E.A.R. comes to mind. Condemned as well I suppose.
 

Gragt

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
Longshanks said:
I thought the pre-reveal game was just as bad. The increasingly artificial devices used to keep you from meeting whatsisname became extremely irritating. It was just too obvious that it was leading up to a plot twist, and took so long to get there. Each new "can't meet you now, or damn! can't reach him" moment caused much teeth grinding. Maybe the "twist is coming" feeling was so palpable because I've played System Shock 2, which had a similar twist and also used the "delay meeting the person who's guiding you" device. I haven't played SS2 in a while, but I don't think it strung you along in quite the transparent manner of Bioshock, and therefore did not irritate me at all (in fact SS2 is one of the most awesome games I've played).

The plot twist of SS2 came around mid-game instead of the 3/4 and was much less conspicuous (well, it became conspicuous the more you got close to meeting your helper, with her voice starting to sound more and more like...). Also the twist did not "end" the game because your character was still in the same dire situation, the thing that changed is that the true identity of his ally was revealed and with it her true reasons for helping him.
 

OccupatedVoid

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I still think it was stupid that you had to become a Big Daddy to get through a motherfucking door. Explosives anyone?
 
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OccupatedVoid said:
I still think it was stupid that you had to become a Big Daddy to get through a motherfucking door. Explosives anyone?

well, atlas at one point tells you that explosives are rare in rapture. of course, you still get more grenades and types of grenades than you can use, but still. i didnt mind becoming a big daddy, but as I already discussed, it could have been handled much better, and the reason for becoming a big daddy in the first place is just another thing to add to the list.

that reminds though, i forgot to mention that I thought it was interesting that when you are getting the stuff you need to turn into a big daddy the helmet is specifically identified as Rosie's helmet. My reasoning is that since they bothered to identify it as rosie as opposed to say, bouncer, at one point they might have had some content allowing you to choose which type of big daddy you wanted to be, which would have been sweet, imo.

It would have been sorta cool if that was how fontaine tried to kill you, by turning you into a big daddy and brainwashing you, but tenenbaum interfered by sending a little sister to inject you with X compound if you had been nice to the little sisters (and some different scenario if youd been harvesting them against her wishes), thus you get to be a big daddy and chase down fontaine etc.

the worst thing about the endings is how they don't reflect properly on your actions. just because you were hypothetically desperate enough for adam to harvest little sisters (though i think you honestly get way more adam by rescuing them because of the care packages, which is dumb because it removes any traces of C&C to be had here) doesn't make you the worse guy in the world. as atlas says, you can justify it by saying this is just what i have to down here to survive, im still a good person, or at least not so crazy evil that im going to attack the world with sub nukes.

conversely you could, in theory, be crazy evil but have a soft spot for kids or something, so while being a despicable asshole most of the time you might still treat the kids nicely and not harvest them. to summarize, its a poor judge of the protagonist's character.
 

Zomg

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It's funny, the misfire becoming-a-big-daddy body horror in Bioshock reminds me of the misfire body horror in SS2, where Shodan suggests a few times that you're not even human anymore, given that you've absorbed so many nanites - then in the ending video, you look exactly the same as the intro video. I was hoping at least to get a, "What the fuck are you?" from a living human in the ending, if not a Dark engine fake mirror scene, but no.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Whilse System Shock 2 is likely one of the greatest games of all times, this is only true if you simply pretend that ending video does not exist.
 

Surgey

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Jasede said:
Whilse System Shock 2 is likely one of the greatest games of all times, this is only true if you simply pretend that ending video does not exist.

i replaced the ending video in my copy with a dramatic reading of gratuitous shodan-xerxes slash
 

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