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Save the world? Right after I empty your trashcan.

Shackleton

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Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I can't think of an RPG that DIDN'T promote me searching every crappy container everywhere. I seriously can't think of one. Maybe only the ones that don't have containers like Blackguards? But that means that you need to remove exploration in order to remove the "loot everything" mentality?

Actually, this mechanic of searching every box/table/ashtray seems unique to western RPG's. I'm struggling to think of a JRPG I've played that contains such copious amounts of trashcan diving. They tend to do crafting purely from mob drops which leads to other retardation like 'kill this fire resistant rare mob at midnight with a fire attack', but on balance even that is better than searching every container for shit.
 

Chateaubryan

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The only satisfying crafting method I can think of is M&M6 potion crafting. 3 basics elements (+bottle), you experiment with them, try several combinations until you get it right.
After a while, most potions cease to be useful but that's another problem. The crafting method in itself still remains good, interesting and encourage you to play around with it. There's no inflation of useless crap piling in your inventory/stash until you hypothetically need it.

Even worse are those games that forces you to watch a little digging/picking up animation everytime you want to harvest something. UGH. I can't stand that anymore. Let me do the pac-man and collect minor weightless shit video-game-style, by simply walking on it. I'll deal with encumbrance for things that actually matter gameplay-wise (gear, accessories, usable items, food etc.)
 

Black Angel

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give players a choice to buy from merchants instead.
Why would you buy from merchant
'cum-soaked tissue'
?
First, it wasn't me who state "cum-soaked tissue". Second, it was OP who state, and it was meant as a hyperbole.

OP's point is, games and some RPGs in particular these days were designed to the point where players would be pushed to look out and pick up something that's seemingly as useless as 'cum-soaked tissue', simply because it might turns out to be a crucial part of the ingredients to make something as powerful as 'Ultimate Weapon of Doom +10'.
My point, however, is it would better not to design something like that, and instead give us better itemization where we have a choice to buy ingredients from merchants instead, or at least as an alternative.
 

anvi

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Crafting could be made right. Just remember Unreal World or Cataclysm: DDA.
The best was in Dark Messiah. You see the liquid metal pour into a mould and a sword is made. Whole thing took about 30 seconds, that's the best crafting has ever been.
 

Nutria

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Crafting from junk is annoying enough. When it's combined with inventory limits or encumbrance it's absolutely infuriating. There's nothing worse than spending half the game in the inventory screen deciding which piece of trash to throw away so you can pick a slightly more valuable piece of trash.
 

Stavrophore

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So I was making an attempt to get stuck into DOS2 when I realised what it was that has massively been bugging me about plenty of recent RPG's- the retarded crafting mechanics, or more specifically, the gathering of materials for the crafting. When the fuck did it become the norm for games to fill every container with semi-random junk that you just have to hold onto in case it turns out that the 'cum-soaked tissue' that you found in a bin three hours ago is a vital component of an 'Ultimate weapon of Doom +10'? :argh:

I mean, I liked crafting way back when I played MMO's because although it took time, you usually got the components from the mobs you killed or from mining nodes. To me, this was a much better way of gathering materials than searching every dustbin, crate or bedside table in the hope of finding a paperclip or some shit. It's seriously killing my desire to play DOS2 because bloody containers are everywhere! The gameplay loop is 'click on location, walk to it slowly and if there's no mobs, click on every item that can open and transfer all. Repeat.'

I suspect this is something else we can blame bethesda for, as I know all their hiking simulators have been filled with junk to pick up, but Witcher 3 did this as well, as did DOS1. Please god tell me ELEX doesn't do it before I give into temptation and buy it. The Gothic's were pretty good like this as they used the node system before everyone went retarded.

Yes, I know it's up to me whether I bother with all this, but I don't think I'm a special snowflake. I bet the vast majority of players pick up everything in every container in the hope it's useful, but does this really add anything worthwhile to the damn game? Making a useful item or weapon/ armour should be the result of actual challenging gameplay surely, not just constant container OCD?

:outrage:

Elex doesn't have containers, but has lot of junk-loot to pickup, and it's pretty mandatory for half of the game, to pick everything. Oh and it's not highlighted, unless you find very specific item. It's very time consuming, since the char, has to play and animation, and you have to look almost directly at the item[no proximity picking just by going near and pressing E]. Good thing is , that there's no weightlimit.
 
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Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I think developers fail to go through a thought process of what they are trying to accomplish with crafting mechanics.
Like in case of Original Sin 2 it literally just feels like a marketing trick, since at least half of the recipes have a marginal effect compared to the hassle of gathering the ingredients that aren't conveniently concentrated somewhere.
The basic action of gathering multiple objects, pressing a button and turning them something else isn't appealing itself. In fact, if inventory management feels like a chore or getting those items feels as such it will be something the player will actively avoid.
I think proper ways to make crafting matter would be either forcing the player to improvise (such as making weapons quickly deteriorating that had to be replaced with whatever pointy thing you could come up with), or cleverly using in-game logic solve puzzles or give rewards (I liked that you could brew the blood rose in Original Sin 2).
 

Doktor Best

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Agree.

Absolutely one of the worst parts about D:OS 1 and D:OS 2. Fucking pixelhunting and the UI inventory manangement minigame. Tedious, boring, carpeltunnel-syndrome giving piece of shit.
Half the game time is spent on clicking useless shit and manageging it in your shitty ui.

Honestly can't think of anyt good crafting system in an rpg on the top of my head.


Loot hoarding is mental condition, and I suffer from it :(

Gothic games, Underrail, Fallout New Vegas, Baldurs Gate 2 (if you can call that crafting)
 

biggestboss

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The only type of crafting I've ever enjoyed in RPGs is the one where it's like one legendary blacksmith that you give rare materials to, like in Baldur's Gate 2.
 

canakin

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Why my character should be able to craft legendary arms and armor anyway? 99% of time I'm some amnesiac faggot who can barely hold a sword straight in a hurry to save the world from ancient evils. I would love to see game developers who put this banal crafting shit in their games craft a suit of armor from piles of scrap metal and goat hides. Fucking devs.
 

Dorateen

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Regarding NPCs who craft from receiving material components from the party, a personal favorite was Antone the Rapax from Wizardry 8. In the keyword list to the right is mention of the Ebon Staff, Beastslayer Axe and Featherweight Armor; just a few of the things he could craft if brought the necessary resources.

WmfKHi2.jpg
 

Sneaky Seal

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Well, it works fine for games like Underrail or, please forgive me, Falloue 3-4 - collecting bits and scraps does go well with the theme of post-apocalypsis.

But being a powerful mage or warrior and collecting rags and sticks does feel unimmersive at times.
 

deuxhero

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Atelier's crafting is good, but half the skill in that game is figuring out which items are worth your in-game time and inventory space to gather instead of picking up everything. I like games where actual loot is fused together, however little sense that makes, instead of collecting random junk.
 

Darkzone

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In my opinion the problem is that you craft shit from shit and then later masterpieces from shit. Gathering very rare components for specific masterpieces, when you have learned of a mastersmith who can makes a special weapon or armor or you found a special 'one time' recipe, should be emphasized. And you should be able to craft a specific unique masterpieces ("the named sword") and not some noname +x +y... shit. I liked the recipe crafting in Evil Island and somehow the crafting in Gothic 2, because of the limited resources.
 

Nutria

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I think developers fail to go through a thought process of what they are trying to accomplish with crafting mechanics.

I'd bet that in a lot of these games the crafting system is bad because the developers had no interest in it. They have to include some kind of crafting to check off that box on the list of features, but they're not going to put any real effort into it.
 

Trashos

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Dec 28, 2015
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It is tiny rewarding for constant dopamine rashes to keep players hooked, as others mentioned above already. Now you are all going to get mad, but XP gain is another form of the same recipe. Pillars of Eternity got rid of constant XP gain more or less, and a lot of people got bored quickly without it (and, to be frank, I missed it myself).

Anyway, let's not be too revolutionary here. Let's keep XP gain, and let's deal with the trash gathering problem. One solution I find acceptable is what New Vegas did with some abandoned warehouses that were full of a specific type of junk. For example, the Sunset Sarsaparilla HQ were full of empty bottles. So you didn't have to constantly pick up empty bottles for the off chance you 'd need them for crafting. You 'd just go back to the SS HQ and pick up plenty, once you needed them. This way we could still have elaborate crafting, but also didn't have to loot every junk we found.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

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I dunno why people keep referring to it as a dopamine buzz, I tend to have the exact opposite reaction when I unlock a chest only to find a stack of crafting crap. Like, fuck, that is really, really, depressing. *deep breath* *have a break* come back to the game and move on. I've only played a couple of games that do this as the whole premise is something that puts me off from getting the game in the first place. It can be a dopamine if the crafting is very limited and the reward is genuinely interesting, like an uber powerful and rare/expensive potion or super-duper rare and interesting equipment, but anything that fills up the inventory after a couple of screens is a huge turn-off to me, and is probably the primary reason I haven't played Arcanum yet.
 

Iznaliu

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Apr 28, 2016
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Like in case of Original Sin 2 it literally just feels like a marketing trick, since at least half of the recipes have a marginal effect compared to the hassle of gathering the ingredients that aren't conveniently concentrated somewhere

IIRC crafting was pretty overpowered in the beta, so they probably overcorrected it like usual.
 

ortucis

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Apr 22, 2009
Messages
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I tried crafting in ELEX for a few seconds. Quickly loaded the save without a skill point invested in crafting cause it's same shit you see in every other fucking RPG. Only crafting I am doing now is for potions, that too, only ELEX potions to boost my stats.

OMG +15 damage on custom crafted weapon? Go fuck yourselves developers.

Also, crafting in Original Sin is THE worst thing I've ever seen. I never completed the first OS despite enjoying the combat.. mostly cause of shit storyline, but primarily cause every fucking playthrough, I'd be like "Hmm, maybe I can try that crafting again?", and after investing points in crafting,spending an hour or two, would get so fucking bored and annoyed that I'd uninstall the whole fucking game.

Basically, the only game to get crafting right was RAGE. They kept is simple. Hell, most parts you need are just collected in large boxes at the same time. You don't go dumpster diving. You then craft all weapons fast and quickly, on the spot. I wish Rage was a bit more open world, but iD fucked that up. Still, a fun game.
 

SCO

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I think people are getting sidetracked with the crafting hate. It's not that i hate that, but i hate random loot generators. The comparasion of Divine Divinity to Ultima 7 is very, very wrong. For one, all 'crafting' there was from handplaced special loot, unless it was something common and unremarkable, like bread. For another, all handplaced loot of the highest tiers of the was strictly superior to any random loot of the same kind (you could say there was no 'random loot' - maybe in opponents idk), crafting or not. It also had a contextual history (magebane etc) and unique effects.

Compare this with the larian tradition of having the 'current' highest tier of gear be something like 'your level + your equipment level + some random stat up' for no-unique abilities (and even if they had them, you eventually make them irrelevant with random loot), means that the interval of 'equipment upgrade' is pretty much every two encounters, for a +2 and no lore at all. I hate this shit, this shit right here, is MMO decline incarnate.
 

thesheeep

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SCO Still better than the other alternative, as it is in the IE games. Play through the game once and you know where to find everything. Completely loses any kind of suprise or exploration effect when opening a chest. It becomes formulaic... if your character is using X, you always go to place Y and pick up uber-weapon Z. Horrible.

That said, I prefer a mix of both - which D:OS2 actually has. Unfortunately, every single piece of truly handplaced and unique equipment is shit.
As you said, one problem is that gear becomes so quickly outdated - find anything good? It will be trash in 1-2 level-ups.
And to make matters worse, the unique items in D:OS 2 are even shit when compared to other randomly generated items of the same level. At best, you get some ability - which you will likely have already or never need...

I think it would be better if equipment was more mundane and something magic will stay useful for a very long time - which is well done in the IE games again.

About the crafting: The good thing about it in D:OS2 is that you will know what is useful and what isn't after one playthrough and will stop picking up ALL the trash. Will feel good to not carry a ton of teeth and fur with me any more... :lol:
 

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