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NWN Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition - Beamdog's final enhancement - now with new premium modules

anvi

Prophet
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I can't think I had any problems with controlling anything in DA:O.

Just because you can't think, doesn't mean there are no issues. It's also possible to like DA:O and NWN for what each game offers; mind-blowing, I know.
NWN only had to offer last expansion. And you still needed to play through that terrible engine and UI and those beyond ugly graphics. And it had MP and custom content maybe, but I never dabbled into that.
NWN wasn't even a faithful D&D game, IE games were more faithful to AD&D than NWN1 was to D&D 3.0.

The multiplayer was pretty cool in the late 90s seeing as there wasn't anything else like that. It was like people making their own little MMO servers with tweaked rules. But you couldn't really change the gameplay significantly unless you were a pro coder so mostly each server felt the same. Compared to a real MMO like UO or EQ, it wasn't worth playing imo. The custom campaigns were good though.

But the old engine isn't very nice to play with. I loved DAO engine, the only problem I have with that game was the boring content, the dumbed down classes etc. NWN every level you got like 90 new spells to choose from, and you could multiclass! Imagine that but in a nice engine, it would be bliss. I still would want more than 1 character though. The one character wasn't too bad in NWN because at least I had lots of spells and stuff to use, especially late in the game, but a team of 4 would be so much better.

Also it would need to include both NWN expansions to be worthwhile. One of those was pretty good, and way better than the original campaign.

I think the NWN2 engine may be the best option. That way you could still have custom content and it is less gimpy and old. Also it has some decent camera options that most people didn't even know it could do. With some skilled modding it could be made to play really well like a modern game. Not sure if Beamdog are up to that kind of thing though, they seem to be more about just repackaging other peoples work into something to sell. A tweaked and modded NWN1 is a waste of time imo. It was worth doing with the Baldurs Gate games because at least they are great games.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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As mediocre as DA:O's ruleset was, the controls were functional enough for a 4 party members setup.

Pretty much, yeah. I've found when things get busy with slinks s3 RAVAge that I relied more heavily on Adv. tactical framework. RTwP pathing routine is shit as usual; units still get stuck on and take a while to move around each other.

NWN wasn't even a faithful D&D game,

It was faithful enough for what they set out to do. Go and play ToEE if you want faithful.

IE games were more faithful to AD&D than NWN1 was to D&D 3.0.

Expand, pls.
I don't care what they set out to do lol, that is not an excuse (if it was, one can use it for that terrible Sword Coast Legends as well). I remember a whole bunch of spells not doing what they should be doing, magical bonuses that were supposed to stack didn't stack. Magic items were also of all kinds. Skills all did something different.
Unfortunately I cannot go spell for spell and ability for ability as it has been a long time that I have played it but I remember at the time I was very angry. Also lack of real party mostly killed the D&D feel.
NWN2 was closer to 3.5 than NWN1 to 3.0.
 

anvi

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How? DA's engine was sweet, immersive over the shoulder view or mouse wheel out to a high up tactical view. Modern resolutions, etc.
It was barely functional. On top of that it had limited moddability, especially compared to aurora. And Aurora is the almost only thing NWN has going for itself. Its a BIG thing, if you kill it, you kill the game.

That's one of the main things that stops me playing NWN again.
Gameplay was better in nwn than it is in DA:O

That and the fact that it is single character which sucks.
Single character is great. Make a good build, play a character driven module.
How was it barely functional? I agree with most of what you say but DAO felt so slick to play, and with a full party. Put the gameplay of the older games like NWN (or preferably Baldurs Gate 2) in a modern engine and that is basically the holy grail of RPG gaming I think everyone here would want, whether they realise it or not.
 

Cael

Arcane
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Messages
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The multiplayer was pretty cool in the late 90s seeing as there wasn't anything else like that. It was like people making their own little MMO servers with tweaked rules. But you couldn't really change the gameplay significantly unless you were a pro coder so mostly each server felt the same. Compared to a real MMO like UO or EQ, it wasn't worth playing imo. The custom campaigns were good though.
I remember playing the NWN OC with my friend in MP mode. It was a pretty much a disaster as the OC really didn't handle multiple protagonists well. It became even more of a cakewalk than it is normally, and we were playing on full friendly fire mode.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Messages
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I don't care what they set out to do lol, that is not an excuse (if it was, one can use it for that terrible Sword Coast Legends as well). I remember a whole bunch of spells not doing what they should be doing, magical bonuses that were supposed to stack didn't stack. Magic items were also of all kinds. Skills all did something different.
Unfortunately I cannot go spell for spell and ability for ability as it has been a long time that I have played it but I remember at the time I was very angry. Also lack of real party mostly killed the D&D feel.
NWN2 was closer to 3.5 than NWN1 to 3.0.

This is what you came up with? Still a shitposter, I see. :lol:
 

anvi

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The multiplayer was pretty cool in the late 90s seeing as there wasn't anything else like that. It was like people making their own little MMO servers with tweaked rules. But you couldn't really change the gameplay significantly unless you were a pro coder so mostly each server felt the same. Compared to a real MMO like UO or EQ, it wasn't worth playing imo. The custom campaigns were good though.
I remember playing the NWN OC with my friend in MP mode. It was a pretty much a disaster as the OC really didn't handle multiple protagonists well. It became even more of a cakewalk than it is normally, and we were playing on full friendly fire mode.

I remember getting cyber sexed by a sexy elf in a forest in NWN MP. She lead me to a secluded lake in this pretty forest and took off her armor. Good times. She was probably gross in real life but to me she was a sexy elf and that's what matters. I also played a pure PVP server that was mayhem and kinda fun. It was like Deathmatch. Also a server that was like a traditional MMO.

The original campaign was pretty boring and unpleasant to play. Although I did enjoy the last few hours. As a Sorc I ended up with a Mordenkainan's Sword as my pet which was a total badass but I could also summon other big creatures as well and they were uber too. The enemies would all swarm my pets and then I could blast them with a selection of about 1000 fun spells. And every level you get 2 more spells from a choice if 50. It was great.

DA:O engine was really good imo, but the dumb spell selection and no mutliclassing etc.. was just too much dumbing down. Gimme the better gameplay of the older games in a better engine like the newer games and I'd be in RPG heaven. It is the easy to spot thing that everyone wants yet it can't happen because of how the business works. But a good modding group could change this. Doubt Beamdog are that group though.
 

ilitarist

Learned
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I think it's a good time to play some NWN2 in coop - can't play NWN1 waiting for the EE.

I just hope that GOG version works in MP. I understand that campaign wouldn't work that well - it depends on the hero being special even more than Baldur's Gate - but it should be fun. Right? Right?!
 

Cael

Arcane
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DA:O engine was really good imo, but the dumb spell selection and no mutliclassing etc.. was just too much dumbing down. Gimme the better gameplay of the older games in a better engine like the newer games and I'd be in RPG heaven. It is the easy to spot thing that everyone wants yet it can't happen because of how the business works. But a good modding group could change this. Doubt Beamdog are that group though.
There are a few things in DA:O that doesn't make sense. I mean templars were supposed to be the premier magekillers, but in reality, when I run up against mages, I want my own mages with me rather than templars. One blast of that anti-mana spell and that's all she's wrote.
 

ilitarist

Learned
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There are a few things in DA:O that doesn't make sense. I mean templars were supposed to be the premier magekillers, but in reality, when I run up against mages, I want my own mages with me rather than templars. One blast of that anti-mana spell and that's all she's wrote.

It may make sense that this is the only thing in-universe you can do without actually using magic. Templars also have high willpower stats or something giving magic resist bonuses IIRC. So this is fine. When there are apostates in da hood you call Templars who get their pet mages and intimidate them into helping.
 

Cael

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It may make sense that this is the only thing in-universe you can do without actually using magic. Templars also have high willpower stats or something giving magic resist bonuses IIRC. So this is fine. When there are apostates in da hood you call Templars who get their pet mages and intimidate them into helping.
Templars get a measely +2 Will, IIRC. Sorry. It's been a very long time since I played the game.
 

ilitarist

Learned
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Templars get a measely +2 Will, IIRC. Sorry. It's been a very long time since I played the game.

Again, it's fine. There's no better solution against mages unless you're using mages yourself. Playable party has mages so Templars became only occasionally helpful against mages, but most people who want to defend from mages assume they won't have access to loyal mages themselves, thus Templars. They're better than just a dude with a sword, after all.
 

Ausdoerrt

Augur
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
217
Ah come on, what citation is needed? In NWN it was annoying even to find a spell to cast with the shitty "radial" menu. Even movement felt weird.
Fuck you, radial menu in combination with a gajillion hotbars is probably the best system ever created for PC RPGs before total consoletardization. NWN1 was also one of the best implementations of said system, compared to NWN2, TOEE etc.

DA:O's ass-backward console-style menus are painful in comparison. If you don't remember what a proper PC game UI should look like, get the fuck out of the forums and go play a proper game.

I can't think I had any problems with controlling anything in DA:O. My complaints were only about content
Except the retarded AI system, barely functional top-down camera, and shitty cooldowns? Yea, not a thing.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
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May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Fuck you, radial menu in combination with a gajillion hotbars is probably the best system ever created for PC RPGs
:what:

No, fuck you, I pre-ordered NWN since I was expecting a "Baldur's Gate successor" (as they were advertising it) and I installed that shit and got depressed at how bad the UI and the controls were in like 15 minutes. I couldn't get past the introduction from how shitty the game played

*The DA:O AI system was the best ever, what was "retarded" about it? You have any better in mind? Or maybe it was a bit hard for you to comprehend some basic "if..then" clauses?
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.

Cael

Arcane
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Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,287
Templars get a measely +2 Will, IIRC. Sorry. It's been a very long time since I played the game.

Again, it's fine. There's no better solution against mages unless you're using mages yourself. Playable party has mages so Templars became only occasionally helpful against mages, but most people who want to defend from mages assume they won't have access to loyal mages themselves, thus Templars. They're better than just a dude with a sword, after all.
This is really a discussion to be had elsewhere, so let's just leave it where it is :D
 

Cael

Arcane
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Messages
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Ah come on, what citation is needed? In NWN it was annoying even to find a spell to cast with the shitty "radial" menu. Even movement felt weird.
Fuck you, radial menu in combination with a gajillion hotbars is probably the best system ever created for PC RPGs before total consoletardization. NWN1 was also one of the best implementations of said system, compared to NWN2, TOEE etc.

DA:O's ass-backward console-style menus are painful in comparison. If you don't remember what a proper PC game UI should look like, get the fuck out of the forums and go play a proper game.

I can't think I had any problems with controlling anything in DA:O. My complaints were only about content
Except the retarded AI system, barely functional top-down camera, and shitty cooldowns? Yea, not a thing.
The sign of a true roleplayer is the ability to adapt to the limitations at hand with what he has.

I found all DA:O, NWN, NWN2, TOEE, BG, Gold Box, Ultima (of every type, even 8), Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Titan Quest, Diablo, etc., have user interfaces that I can use and am satisfied with while playing the game. They all have their quirks and weaknesses and you just have to adapt your playstyle to take those into account.
 

Sprout

Educated
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
67
Meh. The only thing NWN was good for (for me) were the player created modules and this will probably mess that up. Never did touch the official stuff and have no desire to do so now.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Volly is right about the interface. Clean panels, lots of drag and drop, very PC-oriented. It is strange how no games have had that kind of interface since but it may be due to how consoles took over UI design since that time.
 

Ausdoerrt

Augur
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
217
DA:O had radial menus in consoles and hotbars in the PC.
Yeah, let's pretend that NWN's mouse-optimized radial menu is exactly the same thing as the console analog-stick radial hotbar. You retarded or just faking for the sake of arguing? :roll:
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
mouse-optimized
That would imply the menu maximizes information and minimizes clicks. Radial menus don't really do that. Which is why they are mostly used in console games.

With NwN2's quick cast menu I can cast any wizard spell with a single click. In NwN I open the menu with a right click, I choose the wizard spells, I choose spell level and then I choose the spell. Making semi circles with the mouse pointer as I go.

Throwing buzzwords around does not change reality. In the post apocalyptic nightmare of NwN2's camera, the only respite was the beautiful quick cast menu.
 

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