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Incline Gothic turns 15 years

Gimble

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Oh yes, I didnt tackle the majority of them. But even if you dont, there are rather a lot of them. Each of the routes to the dragons and the final chapter's dungeon and filled with these boring ass fights.

I unfortunatly went melee, which necessitated a lot of provoking and backtracking.

You can go as a transformed wolf (or bloodfly or various other creatures) and go right up to each dragon location, switch back to human form nearby, clear the area a bit and start the fight.

After that, in chapter 5/6 with melee, you should be at 200+ str with all the boosts given to the player. With the dragon slicer and master 2h training you can 1-hit kill orcs and 2 hit kill the elites (and hence be able to plow through groups of 3-4 at a time). You should go full on offense at that point instead of playing the taunting/waiting game (dragon hunter/paladin armor + warrior set gives you like 200 armor to tank hits - only the elites/dragon snappers/demons hurt at that point). Convert all the small health potions into pure potions for full heals.

Still, the game isn't particularly good with melee fights against multiple enemies especially if they get the jump on you.

The devs tried to fix it in Gothic 3 - when you fight groups of humanoids, the enemies would circle around and await their turn to attack one-on-one like some hidden honor system was in place - net effect was they each would await their turn to get slaughtered. Needless to say that it was a disaster. The community patch + supplemental patch, etc fix a lot of the AI to behave a lot better but there is no 'fix' for the unfinished areas in that game.
 
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Gimble

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Do you remember any tricks for multiple factions in Risen?

I do know of a different type of trick for the original Gothic which I verified in a particularly exploitative playthrough. The basic idea is to build a pure mage right from the start.

In order to do that, first goal is to get to level 2 asap. A few non-combat quests in old camp + letting that NPC take you to new camp (killing stuff along the way for you) should get you to that level. In the new camp, the goal is to train acrobatics (10 lp) and some mana (10 lp worth) and buy all ice bolt scrolls. The next goal is to run through orc territories to get to Xardas tower (with acrobatics you can easily outrun all enemies), approaching it from the western side. Now, use the icebolt scrolls to kill the fire golem and take its heart. Use the fire golem's heart to kill the ice golem and take its heart as well. The two hearts work just like spell runes (fireball and ice block), but anyone can cast spells with those - now you can basically run back and play as a pure mage with access to good spells right from the start. Later on, you learn the actual circles to get spells and hand over the hearts as part of the main quest.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Gothic II Gold beaten. Best Piranha Bytes game, just like I remember. Now, on to Gothic 3. Installed some stuff to go with it. Put 5 hours into it. I'm undecided on how to build my character. I'm just going to get a feel for the different weapons and go from there.
 

Gimble

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Gothic II Gold beaten. Best Piranha Bytes game, just like I remember. Now, on to Gothic 3. Installed some stuff to go with it. Put 5 hours into it. I'm undecided on how to build my character. I'm just going to get a feel for the different weapons and go from there.
For Gothic 3, make sure to get the supplemental "update pack" on top of the 1.75 community patch. It adds some useful QOL features to the game like better trading and looting. It also allows the ability to use shields to defend against many monster attacks. The other options previously when fighting packs of beasts were to either use polearms or tank the hits or just play as a mage - use this in addition to alternate balance and AI, and you get some reasonable playing options for all character builds.

That said, a mage is strong right from the start and bypasses the problematic combat system altogether (and they can later train mana regeneration as well). This game also has spells like bloodlust that are fun to cast in towns for some added chaos ;), and strategic 'acquisition' of items from NPCs.

Other than that, it is easy to get fatigued by all the filler side quests in the game (every town and settlement has a version of troublesome monster quest, gather materials quest, subvert another npc quest, etc); Combine that with 20+ settlements for a lot of fluff. Feel free to skip some of the side quests if your goal is to actually be able to finish the game. Nordmar area got much less design attention from developers, and you may simply want to focus on completing the main quest at that point. Varant is also somewhat like Nordmar in terms of lack of design, but at least the cities there are fine.

Link to the "update pack" patch for 1.75 CP -> https://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1347969-Release-Gothic-3-v1-75-Update-Pack
 
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Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Gimble Much appreciated! I have played the game twice but never beaten it fully. I think I gave up around the 75% point both times. All tips on mods are appreciated.
 
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Finished G2 yesterday. Great game overall but last chapters can go fuck themselves. Chapter 4 was already boring enough, but then you have two additional short chapters that don't really offer much of anything interesting, only more of that crappy combat. Last cutscene also crashed on me twice so had to watch it on youtube. I'm leaning towards conclusion that Gothic 1 is the superior game.

I'm actually tempted to reinstall Risen 1 just for that superior melee combat, but I'll resist. Gotta get on with Elex finally.
 
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Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Why would you even bother playing Gothic 3 at all? Don't do it to yourself.
Go play some good game instead.
whipping-boy1.gif
 

throwaway

Cipher
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Dec 17, 2013
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Finished G2 Gold for the first time ever, looks like it took me 8 days of more or less full-time involvement, probably my main takeaway is a reminder of how time intensive cRPGs are.

Did a few unconventional (for myself) things on this playthrough:
  • Went the paladin route - Because that artwork got to me, I almost consider that path cannon
  • Opted for 1 handed weapons because the speed of those attack animations made a huge difference in the early levels
  • Really made a point of not consuming stat boosters until later in the game, to maximize efficiency. Thus ended up with 110 Dex despite not using ranged weapons almost at all
The NOTR bits, which were new to me, were pretty welcome meatiness-wise, but I felt the story didn't make much sense and the pacing was somewhat thrown off.Also as much as I liked how the 2 medium sized PreJharkendar quests (on the weapons and the missing people) bring Khorinis's Chapter 1 slightly closer to Athkatla, the shortcuts into joining guilds and doing the important stuff of Ch1 were plainly a bad idea, if I was a newcomer and didn't prioritize minmaxing I'd probably take them and miss out on a lot of good content. The locales were quite pretty although I couldn't shake off seeing how R1 was basically a remix of the bandit camp and the booty hunt, it was worse than what the myriad spinoffs Valve made off HL2.

The Notr rebalancing was pretty brutal initially, but it evened out hugely towards the end. I must have spent as much time in Ch1+Jharkendar+2 as in the rest of the game. The Claw of Beliar was probably too strong and limited my weapon experimentation, not to mention canceled my weapon forging plans. Granted, I played with the advantage of fairly thorough if dusty knowledge of G2 Vanilla, so it's likely my difficulty curve was radically different to a newcomer's.

On that point, assuming no meta-knowledge, I feel that G2Notr is legitimately a more difficult game than the Dark Soul's series, or at the very least requires more patience and is, unfortunately, more exploitable. The dex will cringe at this but from where I'm sitting its claim to being a hardcore affair is pretty strong among at least half of the games in the top 50 list.

All in all, especially in the beginning, I couldn't help but feel how much this game wipes the floor with most modern open world attempts, and I came to it after finishing and quite liking the Witcher 3 expansions. The non-obviousness*of the, admittedly humble, C&C and the rudimental nature of the UI which made basic gameworld interaction feel very direct has probably stuck with me and became a strong design preference till this day. Used to be my favourite RPG until I played Torment, hindsight in this case confirms that.

*I feel it's worth noting how undeveloped the English-language knowledge indexing for this game remains. The poles have what looks like a glorious wikia page and the international crowd has to trawl through decade-old WoG threads. This is actually benefitial to the experience.
Belated strong thanks for all these answers. Most of them were very much on point.

Especially 4 on dex based mages (which frankly look extremely viable, to the point of potentially canceling my difficulty comment above?). Ended up not using the remapped side attack keys, because combo attacks were singificantly better


On the subject of mods, for posteriority:
Used the G2Fix 2.6, the SystemPack, biosmanager's fork of the D3D11 renderer, vurt's improved textures and Yet Another Unofficial Patch v1.6.
The latter was definitely worth it and I consider it the G2 equivalent of Wesp's VtmB patches. The renderer took some tweaking to get crash-free and working smoothly (no tesselation, unfortunately).It complimented the game's aesthetics more than I expected it to, although those nights were way too dark.
 

Gimble

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dex based mages (which frankly look extremely viable, to the point of potentially canceling my difficulty comment above?)

All builds have similar difficulty curve in the first couple of chapters, with the exception of pure mages (which is a bit more difficult and tedious initially). Chapters 4-6 are no longer difficult anymore (for pretty much any build) but can become tedious due to the large number of battles. This is where the mages shine the most as by then they get some strong spells to hasten these battles. The NPCs also tend to have the most reactive dialogue when playing as a mage.

The biggest gameplay difference NOTR makes is less emphasis on LP (due to the escalating costs) and more emphasis on exploration, which allows for a large number of stat boosts. After the initial playthroughs with each archetype a few years back, whenever I replay the game these days, I tend to choose the mage path even when going for melee/bow type character - playing the chosen style during chapters 1-3 and use the mage spells in chapters 4-6 after increasing mana with all the free stat boosts to quickly wind up the game.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Risen 1 and ELEX are worth a shot. Even if they aren't on the level of Gothic 1 & 2, they are both worth playing.
 

Gimble

Educated
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Games similar to Gothic that were not made by Piranha Bytes

I don't think there are any.
Yeah... it's such a crime.

It's a brilliant formula. Some brave dev house should get on it. Breath new life into it. For real.

Depends on what aspect you like in the Gothic games. There are none that are exactly like these, but some other games share varying degrees of similarities.

If it is great atmosphere & setting, then Vampire bloodlines is excellent and is also an even better RPG to boot. Witcher 1 has a great atmosphere as well (combine that with the fcr mod for a good improvement to the somewhat bland combat system in the original).

If you like lone wolf gameplay in a dangerous, immersive world then give the Stalker series a go.

Divinity 2 was already mentioned - if you like a 3rd person ARPG with no scaling and a generally dangerous world with a better combat system, but less serious setting.

If you want similar mechanics done by another small developer, enforcing their own unique style for an even more 'rough' experience, Mars:War logs is a conditional recommendation.
 
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Divinity 2 was already mentioned - if you like a 3rd person ARPG with no scaling and a generally dangerous world with a better combat system, but less serious setting.

Yeah I mentioned it because it's third person ARPG with nice exploration that makes you feel like an utter weakling in the beginning and the almighty god of destruction by the end. Just don't play a melee char, it's the most tedious way. Fuck, I actually feel an itch to replay it.
 

Siveon

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Divinity 2 was already mentioned - if you like a 3rd person ARPG with no scaling and a generally dangerous world with a better combat system, but less serious setting.

Yeah I mentioned it because it's third person ARPG with nice exploration that makes you feel like an utter weakling in the beginning and the almighty god of destruction by the end. Just don't play a melee char, it's the most tedious way. Fuck, I actually feel an itch to replay it.
Melee is a little bit underpowered, but it's much more fun to just run over everything rather than spam spells.
 
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Melee is a little bit underpowered, but it's much more fun to just run over everything rather than spam spells.

Didn't feel "a little bit underpowered" to me when I tried a melee run, I was reloading quicksaves like crazy until I eventually abandoned it.t Could only enjoy archer or mage. I am sure you get powerful enough with melee eventually but I couldn't be arsed to go through tedium of getting there.
 
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