Cyanide's Call of Cthulhu - "RPG-Investigation" game based on tabletop ruleset

[Blaine]

Why not just say it's a bad horror game rather than a bad Cthulhu game

Do you, uh... do you even know what Call of Cthulhu actually is, or...?

You know what? Nevermind. I'm leaving this thread forever, never to return. Enjoy your consoleshit, faglords. No doubt Cyanide's next game will be a good Voltron game, but a bad mecha game.

 

[Roguey]

If CoC is a terrible game, "there aren't any areas of complete darkness" will be the least of its problems.

 

[Infinitron]

Why not just say it's a bad horror game rather than a bad Cthulhu game

Do you, uh... do you even know what Call of Cthulhu actually is, or...?

Nope, sorry, this is a logical fallacy. It's like if you spent a bunch of time criticizing, let's say, a Mission Impossible movie for having bad gunplay - specifically on account of it being a Mission Impossible movie, instead of just saying that the bad gunplay makes it a bad action movie. Yes, all the Mission Impossible movies are action movies, more-or-less, but you're still making the wrong arguments (or at least less parsimonious ones).

 

[Roguey]

cthullu without horror

you mean this

Or this

 

[Viata]

This is the closest we ever get from a game inspired in H.P. Lovecraft. And it's worth every penny.(Or you can download the IF no pic version for free).

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Uh ... why? This is your top priority?

Yeah, it's just incredible that I'd think darkness is important in a first-person computer game centered on surviving Lovecraftian horrors, isn't it? It was my top priority because tailoring one's game so that consoletards 1.) can always see and 2.) never get lost in your simplistic level designs is a key marker of the decline.

Because darkness is scary and Cthulhu is also scary I guess? Darkness isn't a theme in the original story at all. There's the big portal of darkness Cthulhu comes out of at the end that has 3 seconds of camera time, and a couple of oblique mentions of darkness like "Cthulhu lives in a dark house somewhere" or "the aliens came from a dark star eons ago" and that is it. There's no stumbling around in dark caverns, no searching through creepy old mansions by fleeting candlelight.

I've read every single story written by Lovecraft at least twice over, and many several times each.

Measuring the amount of darkness present or mentioned in that specific story—most of which is narration and exposition that takes place in various everyday, well-lit buildings—is ridiculous. The game we're discussing doesn't take place in mundane locales or upon eldritch R'lyeh risen from the bottom of the ocean, and seems to be much more akin to The Shadow over Innsmouth.

The search for the cultists in the woods mention a "black morass", implying black swampy ground, but the entire sequence is filled with vivid visual descriptions of what everybody saw. The forest would have been dark except it was lit up by a red glare at all times. There are zero instances of any character described as having a hard time seeing anything. Except for the forest scene everything happens in broad daylight. There actually is way more talk about the color green.

Aside from the fact that that one story is only a tiny fraction of the entire Lovecraftian mythos, there's a big difference between a book that relies on description and imagery and a first-person immersive computer game that actually visually places you within the scene. Also, there's no need to beat readers over the head telling them when it's dark every single time it happens to be dark in a story. Rest assured, in many of Lovecraft's stories, during "action sequences" (i.e. not investigations or conversations in a mundane location), there is plenty of darkness to contend with; and I think that a subterranean tunnel qualifies.

Why do you think Lovecraft specifically mentions the red glare when it's nighttime in the woods? Readers will rightly assume that it's pitch-black dark at night in the woods, or nearly so, unless you tell them that either the moon or some other phenomenon is causing it to be otherwise.

Yes, there is also often some form of luminescence or other atmospheric presence in the "action sequences" of Lovecraft's stories; and obviously, protagonists usually have some means of combating the darkness even when it is dark. Do you really think that luminescence a la The Colour Out of Space is the reason why we won't find one bit of actual darkness in this game, though? Come on, now.

Lovercraft didn't write about a dude running around dark spooky house (or some tunnels/caves) with a fucking candle, he wrote horrors hidden in the mundane which become progressively more noticeable to a hero once he took a glimse beyond the veil seperating mundane and cosmic horrors...
It's a good thing that authors of the game don't try to make it into another retarded jump-scare youtube bait with a hero running around dark corridors, but instead try to create a genuine adaptation of lovecraft works as a videogame.

 

[Viata]

he wrote horrors hidden in the mundane which become progressively more noticeable to a hero once he took a glimse beyond the veil seperating mundane and cosmic horrors...

Shadow over Innsmouth, pretty much. Also, the first part of Dark Corners of the Earth, before they fucked up the game.

 

[Delterius]

You know what? Nevermind. I'm leaving this thread forever, never to return. Enjoy your consoleshit, faglords. No doubt Cyanide's next game will be a good Voltron game, but a bad mecha game.

woah roqua eat a snickers

 

[Roguey]

Lovercraft didn't write about a dude running around dark spooky house (or some tunnels/caves) with a fucking candle, he wrote horrors hidden in the mundane which become progressively more noticeable to a hero once he took a glimse beyond the veil seperating mundane and cosmic horrors...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Statement_of_Randolph_Carter

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Lovercraft didn't write about a dude running around dark spooky house (or some tunnels/caves) with a fucking candle, he wrote horrors hidden in the mundane which become progressively more noticeable to a hero once he took a glimse beyond the veil seperating mundane and cosmic horrors...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Statement_of_Randolph_Carter

Have you read it?

 

[Roguey]

Have you read it?

Yes, I read a great deal of HP back in the 00s. Guy goes into a large dark tomb with a lantern, gets killed by something or other.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Have you read it?

Yes, I read a great deal of HP back in the 00s. Guy goes into a large dark tomb with a lantern, gets killed by something or other.

I didn't.

 

[Zombra]

Emphasis on game.

Then say that and stop appealing to your Lovecraft expertise. I've never disagreed with this part.
"I'm an expert on Tolkein and you can't have a dragon in a Tolkein game" is stupid. Stop being stupid. Say "Dragons are bad for gameplay" instead.

 

[vivec]

Honestly, bringing Cthulhu mythos to a visual medium is a mistake. It is a predominantly literary medium that should enforce literary themes, such as but not restricted to, isolation, pessimism, ignorance, comprehension, insanity etc. But let us say that we are forced to make a visual medium, such as a game, which in addition has agency in it, then I would approach it as follows:

Make the player always suffer from negative effects i.e. all paths in the game are only downhill from the player ability point of view. Make the victory pyrrhic at least for the player's person. Make the victory condition temporal; every success is transitory and only serves to delay the catastrophe with the quiet, clear assurance that the danger is simply next door.

 

[Vibalist]

Just make a game where you never show the monster, but only allude to it. The biggest mistake Dark Corners of the Earth made was when you fought Cthulhu (or Dagon) in a boss battle. And won.

 

[Latelistener]

Just make a game where you never show the monster, but only allude to it.

You actually never saw Cthulhu in that game.

 

[Roguey]

Just make a game where you never show the monster, but only allude to it. The biggest mistake Dark Corners of the Earth made was when you fought Cthulhu (or Dagon) in a boss battle. And won.

That's Lovecraft canon though.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I just want to shoot cthulhus from a shotgun like I did in best Cthulhu game - Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth.

 

[vivec]

Just make a game where you never show the monster, but only allude to it. The biggest mistake Dark Corners of the Earth made was when you fought Cthulhu (or Dagon) in a boss battle. And won.

That's Lovecraft canon though.

Indeed. But that was a one in a billion shot. Cthulhu was still yawning and half asleep; the heroes just put him back to sleep with the headbutting. Cosmic logic. Don't ask. In Dark Corners the hero shoots at Mother Hydra with missiles while she is awake. This reduces her to just another Big Kaiju.

 

[Delterius]

I've always wanted a cthullu CRPG where I get to play as Old Man Henderson.

 

[Blaine]

Indeed. But that was a one in a billion shot. Cthulhu was still yawning and half asleep; the heroes just put him back to sleep with the headbutting. Cosmic logic. Don't ask. In Dark Corners the hero shoots at Mother Hydra with missiles while she is awake. This reduces her to just another Big Kaiju.

I'm making a liar of myself and returning to the thread, but it's for a good cause.

Not only was Cthulhu yawning and asleep, but his actual mind and spirit weren't yet joined with his physical (well, quasi-physical) form. His empty husk was essentially operating on instinct. The ship encountering the risen ocean floor miraculously averted disaster by interfering with the sequence of awakening. I don't have an exact source handy right this second, but I believe it's covered somewhere in the actual story.

The human race has next to no hope of defeating a whole Cthulhu with access to his spiritual might. He's the so-called high priest of the Great Old Ones, able to heal and sustain the others (among other things), not just a physical brute.

 

[vivec]

I still love Dark Corners, btw; it's an excellent adaptation and they got so many things right that they should have made more games. Goddamn, it Arcane, why did you have to sell yourself to Bethesda!

 

[Serious_Business]

Honestly, bringing Cthulhu mythos to a visual medium is a mistake.

That is some purism. The mythos, as a set of rationalized rules, already is something that goes against Lovecraft's work - it was built by August Derleth. From there I'm not sure why one can't go further and build on the thing as wanted. The mythos became a cultural phenomenon in itself, it has nothing to do with a clear set of literary works. It's diluted everywhere in horror now. Everyone knows Lovecraft, except that they don't. But does it matter? The strength of the imagery is nothing to scoff at. There is something primal in the fear of oceans and sea-creatures ; it's the fear of the subconscious, of the roots of life, of losing yourself in the dark unknown. We know that this is what is at stake, the idea of some unknowable, indescribable monster is pretty secondary. In fact the idea of something that can't be said, seen, understood, that is purely unknown, is probably not enough to generate horror. It needs roots in something we do understand (this is where the sea imagery is useful). The monster, as it is, is unknowable because it constantly changes forms ; you give it a form that you can see, grasp, and it changes again, it refuses to be apprehended, defined. You're always going to try to give it a form, and be satisfied when you understand it, but then it changes, just like life in the depths of the ocean tends to take gigantic proportions, or develop species that are not easily categorized. That can be represented in visual medium.

 

[vivec]

Honestly, bringing Cthulhu mythos to a visual medium is a mistake.

That is some purism. The mythos, as a set of rationalized rules, already is something that goes against Lovecraft's work - it was built by August Derleth. From there I'm not sure why one can't go further and build on the thing as wanted. The mythos became a cultural phenomenon in itself, it has nothing to do with a clear set of literary works. It's diluted everywhere in horror now. Everyone knows Lovecraft, except that they don't. But does it matter? The strength of the imagery is nothing to scoff at. There is something primal in the fear of oceans and sea-creatures ; it's the fear of the subconscious, of the roots of life, of losing yourself in the dark unknown. We know that this is what is at stake, the idea of some unknowable, indescribable monster is pretty secondary. In fact the idea of something that can't be said, seen, understood, that is purely unknown, is probably not enough to generate horror. It needs roots in something we do understand (this is where the sea imagery is useful). The monster, as it is, is unknowable because it constantly changes forms ; you give it a form that you can see, grasp, and it changes again, it refuses to be apprehended, defined. You're always going to try to give it a form, and be satisfied when you understand it, but then it changes, just like life in the depths of the ocean tends to take gigantic proportions, or develop species that are not easily categorized. That can be represented in visual medium.

To an extent yes, but then again every incorporation is giving it a solid frame. Today, the word Cthulhu means a bipedal monstrosity with tentacles for the face. Say goodbye to my wonder and fear, Stacy. We have already lost awe for Zombies and Skeletons, which in Lovecraft's work were negations of sanity. The more we push that boundary the more we will lose grasp of what it means to be unknowable.

 

[Blaine]

Today, the word Cthulhu means a bipedal monstrosity with tentacles for the face.

Lovecraft himself sketched Cthulhu, or rather one of those speckled cosmic rock statues of Cthulhu. He also described Cthulhu in great detail in the story. It's not as videogame boss-looking as later iterations, though.

We have already lost awe for Zombies and Skeletons, which in Lovecraft's work were negations of sanity. The more we push that boundary the more we will lose grasp of what it means to be unknowable.

While we're certainly inured to the simpler horrors of simpler times, I think you'd find that if you actually saw an animated skeleton lurching around in front of your very eyes, you'd have quite a stupendous reaction to it.